[Fourdoor]

The house I am renting has a small electrical box without room to add a new ckt for my clipper creek LCS-20P. I was going to make an ultra heavy duty extension cable (10gauge 4 conductor, 600V insulation... more robust than normal wiring in conduit) and a splitter cable from the dryer plug going to both the dryer and the extension cable. I will just never run the dryer while the car is charging.

Now, my problem... the house wiring is set up for a 10-30 (3 wire) dryer plug! Will the clipper creek LCS-20P accept having the ground and neutral on the same pin or will this cause problems? If it will not cause problems, I can go with a 3 wire 10 gauge cable vs the 4 wire cable and save a bit of cost, and have the 3 wire to 4 wire adaptor at the EVSE end of the cable.

If I can't run the LCS-20P on this setup, I can just re-configure to run my stock 2016 EVSE at 240V... but I would prefer to use the LCS-20P and return the stock EVSE to its storage compartment in the car for use as a portable unit rather than leaving it plugged in at home.

Thanks for any information,

Keith

PS: Just checked and clipper creek does not "recommend" using a 10-30 to 14-30 adaptor... if I want to do it "right" I can just drive a ground rod into the earth next to my plug and attach the 4th wire to the grounding rod... I just want to know before I start if the simple adaptor cord will work.

 

[caronjeff]

Do the ground rod. You will get additional protection from lightning storms as well.

 

[Joe67]

First step is discuss this with the home owner/landlord/agency.
Second step is have a local professional electrician involved.

 

[Henry_FL]

240V ESEV's only need three wires, so whats this issue?

 

[Fyodor]

First step is discuss this with the home owner/landlord/agency.
Second step is have a local professional electrician involved.

Listen to Joe. Then check with your insurance agent as well.

 

[mike100]

My dryer is gas so my 30A dryer outlet was free to use. That said, I paid my electrician friend to cover the original outlet box and extend the conduit to a more accessible place. I also had a NEMA 6-20 receptacle paralleled in for my air compressor. This was surprisingly cheap.

Before this I had my evse screwed down close to the dryer outlet behind the dryer where you couldn't see it.

 

[mike100]

As far as the ground wire goes, my house had the copper 4th wire already in the cord set and the junction boxes are metal (unlike newer houses). It was easy to just utilize the copper ground and terminate it to the 4th lug on the receptacle.

 

[GSP]

Fourdoor,

I have charged my Tesla with a 10-50 outlet. I purchased a replacement 10-50 stove cord and a 14-50 outlet (for an RV extension cord) from Amazon for about $30. Connecting neural from the stove cord to the ground on the 14-50 outlet worked perfectly. I did not connect the neutral on the 14-50 outlet since it is not used for EV charging.

Since neutral and ground are connected at the panel, I think the same setup would work for any EV with any EVSE. Just get a 10-30 dryer cord and the appropriate outlet for your EVSE (or hard wire to EVSE). If you try it, please let us know if it works for you.

GSP

PS. You could get a "dryer buddy" to convert your 10-30 outlet into two outlets that can be selected with a switch. That would insure no one accidentally turns on the dryer while the car is charging.

 

[JFudo]

I'm not one to tell people they need an electrician when they really don't, as I installed my own 240v charger myself (I also installed the entire electrical system in my house and garage though). For my charger, which is the siemens, it doesn't have a separate ground and neutral connection either, so I wired both ground and neutral together at the charger and separated them in the panel. In reality there is no difference of course because the ground bar and the neutral bar are connected together in the panel.

But, I do have to say that I don't like your concept, not so much from the grounding aspect as the hot lines. Running through plugs and adaptors when working with that sort of amperage gives lots of chances for fires (actually, my prediction is if you try what you are thinking you wouldn't be able to keep the breakers from popping due to all the voltage losses though the connections and lengths of wiring). I think your extension cord isn't that robust, it sounds barely passable, I would recommend 8 gage. Do you know the size of the breaker and the gage of the wire the dryer is on in the first place?

Not to mention wiring both the dryer and the car charger to the same circuit could be a disaster too.

If I were you and I owned the house, I would run a sub panel next to the main panel to wire both the dryer and your charger into. If I were you and I didn't own the house, and I didn't think the owner would care (or notice), I would replace some of the house breakers with the low profile 1/2" breakers to make some room in the panel.

Since you don't own the house, and my perception is that it might be a little over your head, I think your only choice would be to ask the homeowner if you could hire an electrician to either do it one of these ways. Your proposed solution is a bad one.

At the absolute minimum, I would pull the dryer plug apart, splice new wire directly to the dryer wiring and run that out to another plug within reach of the charger. No adaptors, splitters, extension cords, etc.

 

[wws]

If the receptacle is wired to the main panel, there really isn't much difference between neutral and ground. However if there is a sub-panel between them, there certainly is a difference.

Turn off the breakers and pull out the receptacle. If you are lucky, the fourth (green) safety ground wire will be there anyway for the J-box. If so, it would be a trip to the hardware store to replace the 10-30 with a 14-30.

 

[emartin00]

driving a new ground rod near your car is not going to help you. In fact it will cause more problems unless you also run an EGC to the existing house ground rod.
The existing 3 prong outlet has 2 hot wires and a ground, NOT a neutral. The only correct way to do this would be to run a new wire, unless they already used 10-3 wire, and just didn't use the neutral.
The easiest thing to do would just use an adapter from 3 prongs to 4 prongs. If the house is wired properly, it will work just fine.
That being said, it should really be looked at by a qualified electrician.

 

[rhodomel]

I'm not one to tell people they need an electrician when they really don't, as I installed my own 240v charger myself (I also installed the entire electrical system in my house and garage though).....

I agree! That's what your city's electric inspectors are there for! I applied for permit to do the wiring, they come and inspect it and check it off. That way, the city is happy and the insurance company is happy, and you are happy. If it doesn't pass the inspection, they'll tell you how to correct it.

 

[wws]

driving a new ground rod near your car is not going to help you. In fact it will cause more problems unless you also run an EGC to the existing house ground rod.
The existing 3 prong outlet has 2 hot wires and a ground, NOT a neutral. The only correct way to do this would be to run a new wire, unless they already used 10-3 wire, and just didn't use the neutral.
The easiest thing to do would just use an adapter from 3 prongs to 4 prongs. If the house is wired properly, it will work just fine.
That being said, it should really be looked at by a qualified electrician.

Actually a NEMA 10-series has a neutral and not a ground. This is so it can support both 120v and 240v at the same time. For example, a clothes dryer might use 240v for the heating elements and 120v for the timer and control circuitry. NEMA 14-series add the safety ground.

Another option is to convert the NEMA 10- to a NEMA 6-. (Two hots + safety ground.) Wrap the former white neutral wire with green tape. Then over at the breaker panel, relabel the corresponding white wire with green and move to the safety ground. Since it is a rental house, I would recommend getting the landlords permission - and having a pro do the work.

 

[Fourdoor]

My solution at this point is "screw it I can live with 110 if that doesn't burn the house down" (crossing my fingers on that not burning the house down part). The electrician my landlord uses is a hack. When I first moved in I asked about getting a 240V outlet outside at my expense, and he told the landlord it couldn't be done without spending a crap load of money to replace the current breaker box. I suspect that it would have been a lot cheaper if the landlord was paying for it. He also did a hack job when installing a 110V outlet outside. Initially my stock EVSE would not work because none of the wiring in the house has the ground wire hooked up. He had to add a ground just for the ckt my EVSE is on. If I print something in the office, it trips my EVSE on loss of ground... so don't think that the quality of the "professional electrician" available is much if any better than me I am in the middle of bum F nowhere Mississippi and I think that has a lot to do with it.

In short, no way in hell would I trust my landlords "professional electrician" with this. I will stick with what I have and hope the place doesn't burn down around me.

Keith

 

[saltsman]

Have you asked your landlord? I'm a landlord and I'd happily install a plug for EV charging if asked, but I'd be quite unhappy if you went messing with the breaker panel yourself. Keeping a existing tenant happy is far less hassle than constantly flipping the unit.

Even if the breaker panel is full, a tandem breaker will add the necessary circuit and cost around $25. Easy done.

 

[darrin]

My landlord said I could only install a 240V circuit if I took out a $1M insurance policy with him as the beneficiary. That and the fact that the electrician wanted $1100 to upgrade the wiring between the house and the garage sub-panel made it a non-starter for me. To be honest with my typical driving pattern I don't have to fully charge each day, and at [email protected] or even 8A I usually have a full battery each morning.

I definitely recommend getting the landlords permission before making any changes to the property electrical system. The last thing you want would be blame for an electrical fire... or even just loss of deposit if they feel like getting nasty about it and the end of your lease.

 

[Chris TX]

The stock 2nd Gen Volt's EVSE works fine on a 10-30 outlet. You just need the adapter for it, if you already have the outlet. I've seen Clipper Creek's tidbit of info on why they don't want you using 10-30 or 10-50 outlets and it doesn't make sense. Using a neutral for GFCI ground sensing is fine, as long as you are sure the neutral and ground is properly bonded at the box. Just pretend it's a jacketed ground wire

 

[saltsman]

My landlord said I could only install a 240V circuit if I took out a $1M insurance policy with him as the beneficiary. That and the fact that the electrician wanted $1100 to upgrade the wiring between the house and the garage sub-panel made it a non-starter for me. To be honest with my typical driving pattern I don't have to fully charge each day, and at [email protected] or even 8A I usually have a full battery each morning.

I definitely recommend getting the landlords permission before making any changes to the property electrical system. The last thing you want would be blame for an electrical fire... or even just loss of deposit if they feel like getting nasty about it and the end of your lease.

$1M policy??? That's nuts. Sounds like the guy doesn't understand electrical circuits.

For what it's worth, I use a TurboCord Dual 240/120 and it matches the Volt's charge rate. Even at 240 it only needs 20 Amps and runs on 14-2 Copper wire (the same wire used for most 120 circuits). It was as simple as swapping in a tandem breaker and changing the dedicated outlet from a NEMA 5-15R to a NEMA 6-20R. I think that was under $50 total.

120 isn't bad... just takes longer. Sounds like a plan (and get a new landlord).

EDIT: Just to add, the TurboCord would easily work on the existing 10-30 outlet. I'd make an extension cord with one end 10-30 and the other as 6-20. You could go up to 50 ft or so with 14-2 copper or 100 ft with 10-2 copper. I made one to use when parked at our RV spot down south.

 

[darrin]

$1M policy??? That's nuts. Sounds like the guy doesn't understand electrical circuits.

I think he just his way of saying "no". Fortunately he's a decent landlord otherwise, and I can live with the 120v. Next time we move, I'll be discussing charging options before signing the lease.