GM Volt Forum banner

Hydrogen Shortage Hits Hard: Toyota Mirai Owners Urged To Top Up Frequently

9K views 16 replies 9 participants last post by  Mister Dave 
#1 ·
Hydrogen Shortage Hits Hard: Toyota Mirai Owners Urged To Top Up Frequently



According to a Green Car Reports article, at least at some of the 33 hydrogen refueling stations in California, FCVs owners might be surprised by a lack of hydrogen.

At one station there is even a message with info from Toyota: “Be advised: Hydrogen delivery issues everywhere. Don’t take chances, top off frequently. Toyota hotline says dealers know, will comp you for rental car.”
Green Car Reports article referenced:

Hydrogen supply shortage leaves fuel cell cars gasping in California (Updated)

Also on Inside EVs, perhaps related?

Toyota Claims Mass Production Of Fuel Cell Vehicles Will Start Soon



Toyota says that it will continue to invest in hydrogen fuel cells, to develop improved stacks, increase production volume, introduce more models and lower prices.
Those are quite some lofty goals there.

So far, less than 6,000 Mirai were sold (at around $60,000 before incentives), but from 2020 on, the Japanese company hopes to sell 30,000 annually.
 
See less See more
2
#4 · (Edited)
It is, but most of it is in the fusion cores of the stars. We can't even get close to our star (the Sun)!! The amount on planet Earth is tied up in molecules of water and other compounds. It takes more energy to extract the H2 than the energy a fuel cells returns.
 
#3 ·
So Toyota is doubling down on hydrogen powered cars. Now the comments the Lexus president make sense - FUD EVs to promote hydrogen.
 
#5 ·
You (and Toyota) are forgetting that a Fuel Cell vehicle (such as the 2008 Chevy Equinox models that GM produced) are real "EVs" (electric vehicles). The difference is a smaller battery and a H2 fuel cell as the "range extender". The Volt can have a similar setup in the future.
 
#6 ·
I still don't get why anyone would consider purchasing one of these vehicles, especially now knowing that they'll have to get a loaner from the dealership since their vehicles have no fuel. The whole convenience factor of fast fill-ups is completely ruined. I'm still not sick of telling people that it only takes me about 10 seconds to fill up my car since it charges while I go through my day or sleep. I don't have to drive out of my way to a specific location to fill up; it's conveniently done at school, work, and home. No excess driving or time wasted and it's fully refilled by the time I'm ready to leave.

Going out of my way to stop at a refueling station is a hassle in comparison.

Oh, and my car can refill anywhere there's a plug! The infrastructure is pretty much already built!
 
#9 ·
The best way to get hydrogen is from tidal generators. Free electricity (except for some maintenance once built) and unlimited (practically speaking) water gives unending stream of hydrogen (not something you have in the middle of the desert with its solar farms. With gas distribution already setup across the country cost is minimal to add another station (or replace a gas pump). Advantage of quick refill times measured in a few minutes.

With electricity you need hydro (already fully utilized and limited expansion in the States, less so in Canada) or nuclear plants (more to come from that technology), solar (available in deserts both in amount and space) you need large expensive storage facilities with high maintenance costs and the same with wind. Infrastructure already built in at the home level, still to be built up at the away from home level. Can be refilled during down time which is most of the time except for Taxi's, truck hauling, etc.

Pros and cons to each. Will be interesting to see which wins or if it's not a win/lose scenario but both will exist.
 
#13 ·
The best way to get hydrogen is from tidal generators. Free electricity (except for some maintenance once built) and unlimited (practically speaking) water gives unending stream of hydrogen (not something you have in the middle of the desert with its solar farms. With gas distribution already setup across the country cost is minimal to add another station (or replace a gas pump). Advantage of quick refill times measured in a few minutes.
Gas distribution is done primarily through pipelines. Gas is a liquid at room temperatures and can be pumped through pipes as a result. H[SUB]2[/SUB] is a gas, and as the smallest stable molecule in the universe, is nearly impossible to pump through a pipeline without huge losses. From a feasibility standpoint, we'd be better off pumping the water through the lines and converting it to H[SUB]2[/SUB] and 2O[SUB]2[/SUB], but that means we again need to have the power in the center of continents, so we're back to how to generate the electricity needed for this process.

Physics simply is against using hydrogen for personal transportation. It's quite useful elsewhere, but not in this particular application.
 
#15 ·
Not true. There are currently 1600 miles of pipeline used for pumping hydrogen from one place to another. Another way is compressed container and liquified container shipping. There's a pro and con for each. The more production centers the lower the shipping costs, the bigger the production centers the cheaper to make but more expensive the longer distribution costs. There are more ways to make it than just electrolysis. Lots of research being done into ways to make/distribute it cheaper just like there is research in better battery solutions. Only time will tell which is better/cheaper in the long run or if ultimately it will be a combination.
 
#10 ·
If Hydrogen were free and available at every major intersection in the country, then we would all be driving hydrogen fueled internal combustion cars. But it's not. It's a phenomenally energy intensive fuel, with lots of production emissions no matter what the source of that energy is. The same technologies that drive fuel cell costs and capabilties also drive battery membrane technology and as those technologies improve in cost or capability, batteries will always per more total energy efficient than fuel cells. what a waste...
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top