GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
882 Posts
I just tell them I want to give less money to people that want to kill us. Coal is from the US.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
169 Posts
I pretty much have those morons in check with a #1 and #2 punch.

#1 - 2 years ago when "Pickens Plan" was all the rage, I switched my home over to 100% wind energy and it didn't cost me a single penny of up front costs. It's very easily done with the deregulation of the power companies in recent years. In the Washington DC area most anyone can do this by switching their electricity provider from Pepco to Washington Gas Energy Services. See here:

http://www.wges.com/page/wind.php

So my Volt's electricity will be 100% derived from WIND FRIGGIN POWER! Every mile I drive will add to the growing demand that's pressing utilities to invest more in wind energy infrastructure. I encourage anybody to do this whether they're a Volt owner or not. That rings me to the KNOCK OUT PUNCH #2

#2 - Since I am using Wind Energy instead of OIL or COAL to power my Volt, any coal that is displaced by this process can then be resold on the international markets. The US has a rapidly expanding role in the world economy as a SUPPLIER OF ENERGY, coal-based energy that is. Take a look at this chart from the EPA and you'll find that our Coal exports increasing by multiples if not orders of magnitiude to some areas of the world:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/coal/quarterly/html/t7p01p1.html
-Free that COAL up, for export overseas.
-Free that OIL up, so we can starve the terrorists, and reduce our need to set a foreign policy based an economic choke point.
-USE WIND TO POWER YOUR VOLT.

I plan to put a wind related custom license plate on my Volt, as well as a 1 or 2 other patriotic and/or wind related items. It'll be driven past the Dept of Energy as well as the Jefferson, Washington and Lincoln memorials twice a day every day as I work around that part of DC.

All this costs me a penny more per Kilowatt; a bargain at twice the delta, if you ask me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
513 Posts
Are we trying to say that the poluted air, caused by burning coal, is OK as long as it is done in another country. Do we really think that this poluted air doesn't circle the earth. I am constantly amased that smart people really do think that polution somehow doesn't cross borders.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Who cares that coal is being burned? In my area it is over 70% of the power source for my home and my house only puts out 1.1 cars worth of emmisions per year. Plugging in the Volt(or any other electric car) is still cleaner than burning gas in my car. Are there better ways to produce energy that is more environmentally friendly? Of course there is. And us paying the electric companies for power instead of foriegn oil, these companies can invest in future technologies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
Even if your Volt electricity comes from a coal burning plant, you are probably less polluting than if you were using a gasoline engine.

The December 29, 2010, cover story in Business Week - "Electric Cars Get Charged for Battle" - talks about the Volt and the Nissan Leaf.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_02/b4210048400234.htm

The article is a bit more about the Leaf than the Volt, although it also speaks favorably about the Volt. On the last page of the web article is the following (the conclusion can be applied to the Volt as well):

The Leaf produces zero emissions, and according to numerous studies touted by Nissan, even if the electricity that powers it comes from a coal-fired plant, its carbon footprint is smaller than that of an average gasoline-powered car.
Coal plants, as nasty as they are, do a fairly good job of cleaning up their mess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
So my Volt's electricity will be 100% derived from WIND FRIGGIN POWER!
It's great that you're encouraging electric utilities to invest in renewable generation but please realize that you are not actually using wind power to charge your Volt unless you actually hook it up to a wind turbine. The electric company has no ability to control which generation source is actually used to power your home.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
169 Posts
Are we trying to say that the poluted air, caused by burning coal, is OK as long as it is done in another country. Do we really think that this poluted air doesn't circle the earth. I am constantly amased that smart people really do think that polution somehow doesn't cross borders.
The Volt has quite a bit less to do with the environment than it does to do with getting America back on its proverbial feet.

It never ceases to amaze me how someone on a message board can flip a very positive post to it's antithesis. Human nature to always flush out the negative, I suppose. Just like those American Coal haters that harassed the OP.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,156 Posts
Perhaps this was posted previously however I could not find the reference.
Yes it's been posted before -- several times actually -- but it's a great reference so multiple postings are a good thing. The other point is that the grid is getting cleaner fairly quickly so the numbers are continually getting better. So EVs are the only vehicles which get cleaner and greener over time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
Electricity is a use it or lose it proposition. The grid must maintain base load 24/7, if we get advanced meters that allow us to use off peak production, no extra coal need be used. It will be a process.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,651 Posts
"It's great that you're encouraging electric utilities to invest in renewable generation but please realize that you are not actually using wind power to charge your Volt unless you actually hook it up to a wind turbine. The electric company has no ability to control which generation source is actually used to power your home."

The power company will be taking the amount of energy you use from wind generated resources, increasing demand for wind, lowering demand for fossil fuels. Somewhat like when you use a grid tied solar system. You displace someone's use of other fuels during the day, and use what's on the grid, or going to ground as baseline at night, to power your Volt.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,156 Posts
According to the Dept of Energy, plug-in hybrids like the Volt produced about 40% less green house gasses and pay about 50% less for the fuel than a conventional gas powered car. The full electric like the Leaf produced about 56% less GHG and is about 75% cheaper in fuel. Note that these are well-to-wheel estimates.

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/vehicles/electric_emissions.html
It actually is well to wheels for the EVs and tank to wheels for the ICE vehicles. The footnote says gasoline contains about 20 pounds of CO2 per gallon. Not only is this technically incorrect, gasoline doesn't contain any CO2 it has carbon chains that combine with oxygen to create CO2, their own GREET model says a gallon of gasoline will create 23.7 pounds of CO2. The EPA figure of 20 pounds if tank to wheels not well to wheels.

Unimpressive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,641 Posts
It actually is well to wheels for the EVs and tank to wheels for the ICE vehicles. The footnote says gasoline contains about 20 pounds of CO2 per gallon. Not only is this technically incorrect, gasoline doesn't contain any CO2 it has carbon chains that combine with oxygen to create CO2, their own GREET model says a gallon of gasoline will create 23.7 pounds of CO2. The EPA figure of 20 pounds if tank to wheels not well to wheels.

Unimpressive.
Unlike this person I am not an expert, guess the DOE doesn't know what they are doing. Here's another article I saw on the internet related to this issue.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/green-transportation/electric-cars-zm0z11zsto.aspx


"Aren’t electric cars simply moving emissions from the vehicle’s tailpipe to a power plant smokestack?"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,511 Posts
What I would really like to see is an authoritative article compare the Volt on electricity to the Prius getting 50mpg, regarding total emissions, and assuming the national average of total plant emissions per Kw. It's one thing to say "compared to the average car", which might set a pretty easy-to-beat reference point. For real ammunition, if you can say it beats a Prius you're loaded for battle. I know it gets complicated when you try to work in the fact that plants don't idle down rapidly so the incremental emissions are probably lower, but by the time you explain all that most people are glazed over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
852 Posts
WARNING - TO ALL ORDERING A VOLT

If the dealer promises you that he has an open sllocation make sure that this allocation has been "pulled", and is not just a promis of a pending allocation, that he will get sometime this year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
169 Posts
It's great that you're encouraging electric utilities to invest in renewable generation but please realize that you are not actually using wind power to charge your Volt unless you actually hook it up to a wind turbine. The electric company has no ability to control which generation source is actually used to power your home.


It's great that you're encouraging electric utilities to invest in renewable generation but please realize that you are not actually using wind power to charge your Volt unless you actually hook it up to a wind turbine. The electric company has no ability to control which generation source is actually used to power your home.
Sorry for the delay, the power just came back on yesterday as our neighborhood outside of DC has been going through one of its infamous multi-day power outages, our 4th in 4 years. This is another reason I'm happy to be getting a Volt, as the Leaf would be dead in the water in the close in suburbs of Washington DC with all the storm related power outages. In any case, you must either be an engineer caught up in the details of which electron was generated at a coal plant vs at a wind turbine. Either that, or you have a mental block that is making you think the only way to leverage renewable energy in the home and for our Volts is by directly connecting wind turbines and solar panels to it. That's not really true.

On the other hand, the reality is that YES my Volt will be powered by wind energy. Every electrified mile it travels, doesn't actually "encourage" the utilities to invest in wind infrastructure it quite literally "REQUIRES" purchases of wind energy through legally binding contracts and the money that I pay into the system via my power bill. The more I drive on electric, the greater the demand on our nations wind energy infrastructure. If you look at the big picture and understand that it's more than just the physics of where the specific electrons feeding into my house originate, it's about the economic and business models that support the generation of energy that fills my demand as a consumer; In other words, follow the money, not the electrons. Using 12.5 kWh of Wind Energy per day, my Volt will place an additional demand of about 4500 kwH per year of Wind Energy on the grid.

If only 100,000 of the Volts produced between now and the end of 2012 were to place demands for additional wind power the same way that my Volt will, this would result in a legally binding demand for 450,000 MWh/year of Wind Energy to power those Volts. Assumption being that each Volt will drive about 40 electric miles per day or, in other words, place a burden on the grid for 12.5 kWh/day of wind generated energy like my Volt will.

So in short - yes - each electrified mile in my Volt will be powered driven by Wind Energy, and those electrified miles employ engineers, electricians, land owners, and construction workers that participate in that market. Again, you have to "follow the money" (not the electrons) to understand how this works. For people looking to put the proverbial "icing on the cake" (ie. displacing Coal for EXPORT and American trade gains, IN ADDITION to displacing oil from IMPORT and American trade losses), who may not have the up front capital, be in a good location, or plan on staying in their current house long enough to implement solar panels & wind turbines, my solution is a reasonable, low cost way to power your Volt with wind energy.

On that note, here are a couple of examples for folks to power their Volt (and their homes for that matter) with Wind Power. I'm sure there are providers in other markets, but this at least gets the ball rolling.

New York
http://nywind.com/enrollment/

Washington DC Area
http://www.wges.com/page/wind.php
http://www.cleancurrents.com/index.php/Wind-Power-Facts

New Jersey
http://www.njwind.com/product.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
329 Posts
I get my electricity from Community Energy in New York. For 1.6 cents extra per Kwh I get 100 % renewable electricity of wind and hydro sources. If you want all wind energy it cost 2.5 cents extra.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
857 Posts
It's great that you're encouraging electric utilities to invest in renewable generation but please realize that you are not actually using wind power to charge your Volt unless you actually hook it up to a wind turbine. The electric company has no ability to control which generation source is actually used to power your home.
True, the physics will dictate that the electricity you use will mostly like come from the source with the least resistance, but what is more important is that the wind is being used on an accounting basis. A dime sent to a wind farm is a dime that doesn't go to a coal plant operator. When a new windmill goes up, a little less of some fossil fuel is burnt. So buying wind power from one of the green marketeers, as long as it is a legitimate transaction, has a real impact on CO2 emissions, both now and in the future.

WVhybrid
status = 3100
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top