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Discussion Starter #1
so i finally got my hov lane stickers after almost a month. weird that it did not come with instructions on how to place them-- i looked up online and found out how. apparently there is a proper placement of all four stickers.

now couldnt wait to get on the carpool lane for three weeks so i finally do. the bad thing-- annoying MPGe-conscious people squeezing every little bit last of mpg on their LEAF traveling at 60-65. WTF people, some of us need to get to work! they hold up everyone on the HOV lane and so it is better to just go to the regular freeway.
 

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Not to poke you in the eye, but, you could plan on obeying the posted speed limit and giving yourself enough time to get to work when you do obey them.

What I find annoying and dangerous is to drive in the HOV lane past stalled traffic and to have a jaboney (civil epithet for a**hole) cross over the divide to escape the stop-and-go about five car lengths ahead of me when traveling at 60 mph that requires me to stomp on my brakes. It takes the joy out of traveling in the HOV lane and turns the air inside my Volt blue.:mad:
 

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Not to poke you in the eye, but, you could plan on obeying the posted speed limit and giving yourself enough time to get to work when you do obey them.
Your limited experience is showing.

Most highway HOV lanes in my area of California are posted at 65MPH. Typical speed is either right around that (which might be 68-70 indicated on the speedometer) or nearly stopped. It's annoying to have to pass slow HOV drivers by dropping out of the HOV lane into the faster-moving middle lanes.
 

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Your limited experience is showing.

Most highway HOV lanes in my area of California are posted at 65MPH. Typical speed is either right around that (which might be 68-70 indicated on the speedometer) or nearly stopped. It's annoying to have to pass slow HOV drivers by dropping out of the HOV lane into the faster-moving middle lanes.
If traffic in the regular (non-HOV) lanes is moving faster than the HOV lane doesn't that negate the benefit of driving in the HOV lane?
 

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so i finally got my hov lane stickers after almost a month. weird that it did not come with instructions on how to place them-- i looked up online and found out how. apparently there is a proper placement of all four stickers.

now couldnt wait to get on the carpool lane for three weeks so i finally do. the bad thing-- annoying MPGe-conscious people squeezing every little bit last of mpg on their LEAF traveling at 60-65. WTF people, some of us need to get to work! they hold up everyone on the HOV lane and so it is better to just go to the regular freeway.
They do come with instructions for placement. You must have missed them.
 

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If traffic in the regular (non-HOV) lanes is moving faster than the HOV lane doesn't that negate the benefit of driving in the HOV lane?
Agree. If HOV is doing its job, you should already be moving way faster than non-HOV lanes at the posted 60 (or 65) mph HOV speed limit. I'm all for keeping with flow of traffic even if it's 10+ mph above posted speed limit in all lanes. I'm not familiar with HOV lanes, but generally if there's a huge pileup behind me, I'd probably move out of the HOV lane as a defensive measure to avoid road rage. I can be late to work. I can't fend off road rage.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Not to poke you in the eye, but, you could plan on obeying the posted speed limit and giving yourself enough time to get to work when you do obey them.

What I find annoying and dangerous is to drive in the HOV lane past stalled traffic and to have a jaboney (civil epithet for a**hole) cross over the divide to escape the stop-and-go about five car lengths ahead of me when traveling at 60 mph that requires me to stomp on my brakes. It takes the joy out of traveling in the HOV lane and turns the air inside my Volt blue.:mad:
not everyone has the luxury of leaving early and while that is ideal, life happens. it doesnt excuse the rudeness of driving at the same speed as the regular lanes when one can go faster.

and for those that arent well versed in traffic dynamics, pools of cars tend to slow and speed up in bunches at certain points-- i.e., freeway exits, accidents, intersections (to other freeways), raining, puddles, etc... even trucks that are in the wrong lane. there are times where the regular lanes are slower and there are times where they are faster. BUT, it serves everyone well if you're traveling at least at the same speed as the car before you-- NOT slower and not 10 car-widths.

here in los angeles, chp doesn't pull us over at 75. so if you're at 60 you're holding everyone back. hell, i've had chp run past me at 80. i dont condone or excuse it, but people have to consider they're holding a bunch of other cars behind them.
 

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The speed limit is what you should be driving at; more than 5 over you're becoming a danger to those who obey the law. I agree with JBaker. Give yourself enough time for your commute and your stress will be lower in the process.
 

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If they are moving at the speed limit, then you have no right to complain about them... And leaving a 2 second gap is simply prudent safety...

here in los angeles, chp doesn't pull us over at 75. so if you're at 60 you're holding everyone back. i dont condone or excuse it, but people have to consider they're holding a bunch of other cars behind them.
 

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It's the Goldilocks theory of traffic.

Everyone going slower than you is an idiot, everyone going faster is a maniac.

Your preferred speed is "just right".
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If they are moving at the speed limit, then you have no right to complain about them... And leaving a 2 second gap is simply prudent safety...
The speed limit is what you should be driving at; more than 5 over you're becoming a danger to those who obey the law. I agree with JBaker. Give yourself enough time for your commute and your stress will be lower in the process.
if we are at the HOV lane and he is doing 60 and we come across a stretch of freeway where the other lanes are at 75 (including CHP) he is holding everyone back and we do have a right to complain. people should be traveling at the flow of traffic, period. if they want to go slower than everyone they should be in the right most lane. what is the purpose of an HOV lane when you are running slower than everyone else?

now if everyone is at 55 or gridlock traffic then 60 isnt too bad in the HOV lane.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/connect/68bf500d-ee68-45a3-ba02-2bfbfc21eb8e/unit_7.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

“No person shall drive so slowly or stop on the roadway so as to impede traffic or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic.”

"8. Collisions can happen more often when: One vehicle is traveling faster or slower than the flow of traffic."

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/beat-ticket-book/chapter7-6.html

"If a vehicle is being driven at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time, and is not being driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, it shall constitute evidence that the driver is operating the vehicle in violation of this section."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/traffic/os-florida-slow-drivers-left-lane-warning-story.html

""Traffic flow should be consistent, so someone driving slower than the flow of traffic could lead to safety concerns like road rage," Montes said.

While speeders are more obvious, impeding traffic by driving too slow can be dangerous as well. It can also help identify distracted drivers, including those texting while driving."
 

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And this is why in the US we have traffic laws. Everyone doesn't get to choose what speed suits them best, whether or not to use turn signals, or the direction to drive in.
 

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And this is why in the US we have traffic laws. Everyone doesn't get to choose what speed suits them best, whether or not to use turn signals, or the direction to drive in.
Traffic laws are for suckers. Just like only the little people pay taxes.
 

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if we are at the HOV lane and he is doing 60 and we come across a stretch of freeway where the other lanes are at 75 (including CHP) he is holding everyone back and we do have a right to complain. people should be traveling at the flow of traffic, period. if they want to go slower than everyone they should be in the right most lane. what is the purpose of an HOV lane when you are running slower than everyone else?

now if everyone is at 55 or gridlock traffic then 60 isnt too bad in the HOV lane.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/connect/68bf500d-ee68-45a3-ba02-2bfbfc21eb8e/unit_7.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

“No person shall drive so slowly or stop on the roadway so as to impede traffic or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic.”
No part of a law may compel someone to break another part of the law. California's got speed laws that indicate that the speed limits are presumptions that the speed limit is as fast as can be safely driven on that road and any exception to that need to be proven on a case by case basis. Therefore driving near but below the speed limit is the very DEFINITION of reasonable movement. And yes I just went through all the relevant sections of the CVC.
 

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I tend to drive around 60mph (100kph) in our HOV lanes. The speedlimit is 100kph. If traffic is dead stopped in the other lanes, It feels a we bit dangerous to be speeding next to full stopped cars. If traffic is slightly jammed, I'm still going significantly faster than the other three regular lanes, and if traffic is flowing naturally, well, if you want to go at 75mph, get out of the HOV, seriously.

This is common sense.
 

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Ideally every driver would be courteous and not hold up the flow of traffic in the HOV lane. But that is just one of numerous examples of discourteous and even dangerous driving that can be observed on every outing. Probably more in the congestion of So. Cal. You will never make every driver courteous, so you have to learn to take them in stride or it will make you crazy over time. I think of stuff like that as just part of the driving landscape that I have to either avoid, deal with, or factor in to my drive time.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
No part of a law may compel someone to break another part of the law. California's got speed laws that indicate that the speed limits are presumptions that the speed limit is as fast as can be safely driven on that road and any exception to that need to be proven on a case by case basis. Therefore driving near but below the speed limit is the very DEFINITION of reasonable movement. And yes I just went through all the relevant sections of the CVC.
the point of contention here is the definition of "reasonable movement". "reasonable movement" does not equate to "always less than the speed limit" as it is not defined as so in the CVC. you are making implications where there are none.

while you are correct that a speed limit equates to "safely driven speed", "safely driven speed" and "reasonable movement" are two different things. if all four lanes are at 70mph and you are at 55mph in the HOV, you are driving in a safe speed and are at below the limit (CA does not have a minimum limit) but are you at a "reasonable movement"?

there are three other distinctions here:

1. what is law
2. what is enforced
3. what is practiced

while you are correct that in court, you will always lose if you are above the limit and breaking the law, the law as defined is simply not enforced as such. i just told you ive gone 80mph with CHP beside me and i've been driving in CA for 16 years. ive asked multiple police officers and CHP and they all said they will ticket anyone above 65 (the law) and it is their job to say so and do so but in practice, i have simply found that not to be the case. other officers have told me they wont stop anyone 10mph above the limit.

now in practice, at least here in LA most everyone gets to 75-80 without tickets. so if the practice here is around 75 and what is enforced is around 75, arent you a douchebag for going 60 and holding everyone back? especially when you could be in the right most lane (by law) if you are slower than everyone else?

my point is common courtesy to the other drivers. i dont mean for you to go faster than what is safer, or faster than what youre comfortable with, or faster than everyone else. all i ask is to go at the speed of the flow of traffic, and if youre slower than all four other lanes please go to the right most lane. that's all.
 

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If you want to hypermile you should be in the rightmost regular lane. That's just courtesy. But it seems some people do expect the HOV lane to be a super-express lane that's always flowing faster than the regular lanes. My favorite is when I'm following a long line of cars in the HOV lane and someone zooms up behind me and flashes his lights, the concept of a "line" obviously being beyond him. That's happened to me in Toronto and in SoCal.
 
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