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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Honda aims to shift all of its global car sales to electric vehicles (EVs) and fuel cell vehicles (FCVs) by 2040. The company expects EVs and FCVs to account for 40 percent of vehicle sales in major markets by 2030 and 80 percent by 2035.

The first two EV's will be SUV's one Honda, one Acura, both using the GM Ultima battery platform, 2024 release date. Later cars will use Honda's own e:Architecture ev platform.

 

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Not exactly earth shattering news as virtually every manufacturer will be EV by 2040 as there will be few places that you will be able to sell ICE by then. The Japanese government pushing fuel cells made the Japanese companies late to the game.
 

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It seems all I ever read about is GMs Ultima battery technology as if it was some super battery sent from heaven to save EV technology. It's not here yet and, until it is, I think we need to take a cautious approach to how soon we're all going to be buying new EV vehicles.

The current state of EV technology has much to be desired and, until those obstacles are over come, EV technology will not be well received by the market. Let's wait and see.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It seems all I ever read about is GMs Ultima battery technology as if it was some super battery sent from heaven to save EV technology. It's not here yet and, until it is, I think we need to take a cautious approach to how soon we're all going to be buying new EV vehicles.
Should not have too wait long for cars with the Ultium battery pltform...

The Cruise Origin, a self-driving, electric shared vehicle, shown to the public in January 2020 in San Francisco, was the first product revealed using GM’s third generation EV platform and Ultium batteries. Next will be the Cadillac Lyriq luxury SUV in April. Details about its launch will be shared then. The reveal of the Ultium-powered GMC HUMMER EV will follow on May 20. Production is expected to begin in Fall 2021 at GM’s Detroit-Hamtramck assembly plant, GM’s first assembly plant 100 percent dedicated to EV production.
 

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Good timing for Honda...their gas engines have always been exceptional, but the newest 1.5l GDI+turbo is suffering from oil dilution. Trying to squeeze these engines too hard. There is not much more refinement possible with ICE. Imagine what the next generation can do with electric motors!
 

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They're late in the game. Some areas of the world will have banned ICE vehicles by 2030.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Progress come in (Honda) fits and starts. :)
 

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It seems all I ever read about is GMs Ultima battery technology as if it was some super battery sent from heaven to save EV technology. It's not here yet and, until it is, I think we need to take a cautious approach to how soon we're all going to be buying new EV vehicles.
Ultium is a battery platform, not a battery. The very difficulties that Volt owners are facing with battery faults are solved by Ultium: No longer are there customized modules that mean a Gen 1 can't take a Gen 2 battery set, and far less "one cell went bad; we can't sell you just one module in the array, so you need a whole new battery". Once you've got a platform, with standardized modules, then different sized batteries become how many modules are installed so ranges can be essentially configred for purchase, standardized and therefore identical modules can be swapped if needed without worrying about whether it's module 1, 2, or 3 and facing inventory complications if one type has a run of problems, and maybe you can upgrade by getting more modules installed. And, since so much of the reporting is by non-physical connections, upgrading to different battery chemistries and configuration within the module can probably handled nearly at a software level.

The current state of EV technology has much to be desired and, until those obstacles are over come, EV technology will not be well received by the market. Let's wait and see.
"Wait and see" works on an individual level, but companies, societies, systems and networks, CANNOT "wait and see". DOING things is how there is anything to see, and how waiting ever gets anything. The whole reason Honda's even trying this because GM is basically ready with a platform and Honda's isn't, and Honda knows "wait and see" means they lose years waiting to finish development on their own thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
GM started development of the Ultium battery platform 4 years ago, building on the experience gained with the Volt (which in turn built upon the EV1 experience), and the Bolt EV. As hellsop points out, one of the issues the platform addresses is "swappable" battery cells, even mixing in batteries with different chemistry. The wireless components are not only a weight savings but are key to enabling this very important upgradeability feature.

The Ultium battery pack can physically switch between series and parallel, enabling even faster charging when connected to new 800-volt fast-charge stations.

Special Ultium battery cells use a unique pouch-style design, allowing them to be packaged vertically or horizontally to create battery packs that are very flexible in terms of the sizes, shapes, and thicknesses into which they can be formed. This flexibility means Ultium can easily power anything from an extreme off-roader to an affordable hatchback to a high-performance sports car — with all-, front-, or rear-wheel drive configurations possible. In some applications, electric motors can even be synchronized via software to simulate differential-lock in off-road settings.

And, by creating a scalable architecture of batteries and motors combined into drive units, Ultium reduces costs even further by reducing complexity. Right now, GM offers hundreds of driveline configurations across all of their internal combustion vehicles. With Ultium battery architecture, they’d need fewer than 20 different configurations, each with less complexity than a conventional combustion driveline.
 

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Ultium is a battery platform, not a battery. The very difficulties that Volt owners are facing with battery faults are solved by Ultium: No longer are there customized modules that mean a Gen 1 can't take a Gen 2 battery set, and far less "one cell went bad; we can't sell you just one module in the array, so you need a whole new battery". Once you've got a platform, with standardized modules, then different sized batteries become how many modules are installed so ranges can be essentially configred for purchase, standardized and therefore identical modules can be swapped if needed without worrying about whether it's module 1, 2, or 3 and facing inventory complications if one type has a run of problems, and maybe you can upgrade by getting more modules installed. And, since so much of the reporting is by non-physical connections, upgrading to different battery chemistries and configuration within the module can probably handled nearly at a software level.
This sounds a lot like a battery technology and not a platform. All you spoke to was how different modules can be mixed and matched between different vehicle. Well, that capability would exist today if GM had decided to use the same technology in the Gen 1 and Gen 2. Likewise adding modules could be done today, in fact it has been the primary way range has been increased over the past couple of years. As for being able to replace a module that exists today as well. It's just that Chevy won't sell you an individual module.

From what you've described Ultium doesn't sound much different than what is available today. It sounds like GM is going to standardize on a battery technology going forward. They could do that today if they wanted to.


"Wait and see" works on an individual level, but companies, societies, systems and networks, CANNOT "wait and see". DOING things is how there is anything to see, and how waiting ever gets anything. The whole reason Honda's even trying this because GM is basically ready with a platform and Honda's isn't, and Honda knows "wait and see" means they lose years waiting to finish development on their own thing.
The market will take a wait and see approach. There's no rush to replace ICE with EV. I genuinely believe EV will be the future but today's EV is lacking.
 

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The market will take a wait and see approach. There's no rush to replace ICE with EV. I genuinely believe EV will be the future but today's EV is lacking.
[/QUOTE]

The market will switch sooner than you think. The future seems so far away, the past is gone in blink of the eye. In British Columbia we already have EVs taking just under 10% of new car sales (2020). There are charging stations of 50 and 350 Kw chargers (covering existing technologies) across Canada every 250 Km (150 miles). New buildings have to have at least a charger per unit in Vancouver (built units have paper work road blocks but they are trying to streamline that). New ICE vehicles are prohibited by 2040 but it will be a trickle long before that. Whether you wait for the next big thing (solid state batteries) is an individual situation. EVs will continue to increase in capability and choice for a while yet. The question will be "why wait" not "there's something better around the corner".
 
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The market will switch sooner than you think. The future seems so far away, the past is gone in blink of the eye. In British Columbia we already have EVs taking just under 10% of new car sales (2020). There are charging stations of 50 and 350 Kw chargers (covering existing technologies) across Canada every 250 Km (150 miles). New buildings have to have at least a charger per unit in Vancouver (built units have paper work road blocks but they are trying to streamline that). New ICE vehicles are prohibited by 2040 but it will be a trickle long before that. Whether you wait for the next big thing (solid state batteries) is an individual situation. EVs will continue to increase in capability and choice for a while yet. The question will be "why wait" not "there's something better around the corner".
Because EV technology, at least that of today, has tradeoffs that a lot of consumers are unwilling to make.
 

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How are can all the auto manufacturers standardize their battery when Dyson can't even standardize their portable vacuum $100 4000mAh batteries.
 
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