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A 2018 Volt gets about 50 miles on a 4.5 hour L2 charge.

At a standard ChargePoint charger, it costs $1 per hour. So it costs $4.50 to go 50 miles (summer temperatures, winter would be fewer miles). At $2.50 a gallon, it would cost an ICE car which gets 25 MPG $5 to go the same distance.

If you had a ChargePoint space in your condo or across the street in a parking lot, you would save little over a fairly thirsty ICE car by using it with a Volt at its slow charging rate.

I do not know why ChargePoint does not charge a fee for charging a car based on KWH consumed instead of hours parked in the charging space. I guess they consider the space a more valuable resource than the amount of energy consumed.

But it is clear that a G2 Volt is a bad deal when using ChargePoint whereas a faster charging car (a 2019 Volt with the fast charging option, or a Tesla) would be a far better deal.
 

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Around here the Chargepoint chargers are free to use. The customer that installs the Chargepoint chargers has the choice to charge or not to charge. Here they are Malls, Government (municipal) parking lots. They are free to entice parking (shopping) there or to say "see how green I am" or both.
 

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It's even worse when there is a connection fee on top of the hourly fee. There are some stations where it's $1 just to plug in and then an hourly fee in addition.

It really puts cars with lower charging rates at a disadvantage. Who knows the reasoning behind the pricing structure that owners set but the intent might be to discourage drivers from using the charging spots as parking.

The prices for Chargepoint stations are not necessarily set by Chargepoint themselves but rather the station owner. There's a chance that the station owner doesn't fully understand these nuances of charge rate vs. cost, etc.

Might even be worth a conversation with the owner about pricing (lower pricing might actually increase usage and therefore revenue for them) if that's something you're comfortable with doing.

A 2018 Volt gets about 50 miles on a 4.5 hour L2 charge.

At a standard ChargePoint charger, it costs $1 per hour. So it costs $4.50 to go 50 miles (summer temperatures, winter would be fewer miles). At $2.50 a gallon, it would cost an ICE car which gets 25 MPG $5 to go the same distance.

If you had a ChargePoint space in your condo or across the street in a parking lot, you would save little over a fairly thirsty ICE car by using it with a Volt at its slow charging rate.

I do not know why ChargePoint does not charge a fee for charging a car based on KWH consumed instead of hours parked in the charging space. I guess they consider the space a more valuable resource than the amount of energy consumed.

But it is clear that a G2 Volt is a bad deal when using ChargePoint whereas a faster charging car (a 2019 Volt with the fast charging option, or a Tesla) would be a far better deal.
 

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Chargepoint doesn't set the rates, the individual property owners do. The system will allow the owner to set the rate by time, consumption, or a combination thereof. Some stupid States like CA don't allow charging by the kWhr. The commercial equipment isn't cheap, and there is a cost for the data connection & payment service.

EVs are meant to be charged at home, this is where the benefits come in. If one doesn't have charging at home, than an EV or EVRE isn't the right choice of vehicle. Public charging stations are for occasional use when doing long distance driving. With the Volt I don't bother with public stations. This is why it has the backup generator, to eliminate the public charging issue.
 

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Fwiw. And this is no special rate for my EV. My power company just set up the pricing so I can use this feature. And some of these prices include preconditioning.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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They will only remain free in BC until Hydro gets the government to change the law. At present, in BC, the law states that only BC Hydro (with the exception of New West) is permitted to sell electricity. This is why you see the charge for parking in the stall at an hourly rate, as opposed to a charge for the electrical consumption. So enjoy the free electricity while you can, I am sure it will not last for too long.

Around here the Chargepoint chargers are free to use. The customer that installs the Chargepoint chargers has the choice to charge or not to charge. Here they are Malls, Government (municipal) parking lots. They are free to entice parking (shopping) there or to say "see how green I am" or both.
 

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I think what you are not taking into consideration is that you are purchasing electricity from Chargepoint and not through charging through your own home.

I pay a max. of 12.3 cents per killowatt which is a max of 18 killowatts on completely empty. This equates to $2.21 to travel over 50 miles but say for your sake we use 50 miles which equates to a cost of 4.42 cents per mile.

Now let's use your gasoline cost of $5.00 for the same 50 Miles which is exactly 10 cents per mile to drive the car.

So driving the car on purchased electricity is 226% cheaper then using gasoline at $2.50 per gallon.


A 2018 Volt gets about 50 miles on a 4.5 hour L2 charge.

At a standard ChargePoint charger, it costs $1 per hour. So it costs $4.50 to go 50 miles (summer temperatures, winter would be fewer miles). At $2.50 a gallon, it would cost an ICE car which get
s 25 MPG $5 to go the same distance.

If you had a ChargePoint space in your condo or across the street in a parking lot, you would save little over a fairly thirsty ICE car by using it with a Volt at its slow charging rate.

I do not know why ChargePoint does not charge a fee for charging a car based on KWH consumed instead of hours parked in the charging space. I guess they consider the space a more valuable resource than the amount of energy consumed.

But it is clear that a G2 Volt is a bad deal when using ChargePoint whereas a faster charging car (a 2019 Volt with the fast charging option, or a Tesla) would be a far better deal.
 

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The flat fee makes on top of the hourly rate makes it even more expensive.


I pay .15 per kWh at home (supply + distribution) so let's say 18 *.15 is a total of $2.70 for a full charge.

A full charge at my chargepoint at work is $1 flat fee + $4.50 ($1/hr*4.5 hrs) = $5.50 to go 53 miles.


I can go like 92 miles on gas for $5.50 with gas @$2.50 gallon.
 

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They will only remain free in BC until Hydro gets the government to change the law. At present, in BC, the law states that only BC Hydro (with the exception of New West) is permitted to sell electricity. This is why you see the charge for parking in the stall at an hourly rate, as opposed to a charge for the electrical consumption. So enjoy the free electricity while you can, I am sure it will not last for too long.
The parking and the electricity is free because the Malls or the Municipality pays for the installation of the charger and the running of it. The downside of course is that there is little incentive to get them fixed if they go down, have to wait if its not in the budget (took 200+ days for the city to fix one). Mayfair Mall in Victoria has a nice set up, go up ramp to about a ten spot covered parking overlooking the street, two chargers and 8 disability spots a few steps from the door. I imagine the ones in downtown Victoria cost in the covered multilevel parking spots but never have used them yet.
 

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We've been driving BEV's now for 7 years and have yet to pay a dime to recharge - We don't carry any brand of charge cards. One of the reasons for buying a Volt to travel with was to continue that 'tradition' - When it costs more to charge than to buy gas, we're not above using the more economical solution!

Don
 

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Some stupid States like CA don't allow charging by the kWhr.
I live in 'stupid' California. Not sure where you get the idea that CA doesn't allow charging by the kWh. There are plenty of charging stations here that charge by the kWh along with those that charge by the hour and those that are free.
 

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They will only remain free in BC until Hydro gets the government to change the law. At present, in BC, the law states that only BC Hydro (with the exception of New West) is permitted to sell electricity. This is why you see the charge for parking in the stall at an hourly rate, as opposed to a charge for the electrical consumption. So enjoy the free electricity while you can, I am sure it will not last for too long.
This is exactly the legal situation in many states within the US as well. And it is a major reason for the problem the OP is pointing out.

To me it means that BEVs and PHEVs are best suited for people who can primarily charge at home on their own utility account. Otherwise, they are probably better suited for a traditional hybrid vehicle until the charging infrastructure matures, and part of that will need to be updating the laws about selling electricity.
 

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I think everyone has a different circumstance when it come to charging their EV. I usually charge as work where it's free (company perk), but charging at home only costs about $.11/kwh so it costs me less than $2 for a full charge which is about half the price of gas. When I had my '12 Volt I would plug it in everywhere and didn't are how much it cost because I got premium parking, but now, I just change at work or home. For condo owners, until associations embrace EV's and install charging stations in parking lots, it will be inconvenient to have an EV. Well, unless you have a Tesla and live near a superchager station.
 

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For condo owners, until associations embrace EV's and install charging stations in parking lots, it will be inconvenient to have an EV. Well, unless you have a Tesla and live near a superchager station.
In Vancouver at least (not sure about other jurisdictions) every new condo/apartment built has to have at least one charging stall per unit (up from 20%). BC seems to lead the way to EV/s with this, rebates on EV's, a pledge from Premier to double public charging stations and setting a time line for the sale of EV only sales in the province. 93% of electricity in BC is green and when the Site C dam comes on line in the 20's there will be an excess of electricity till 2050.
 

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This thread points out an uncertainty that faces and inhibits the acceptance of electric powered vehicles. There are 3 challenges for electric cars going mainstream 1) the lack of charging stations. Not just a small shortage at various locations, but vast shortages everywhere. 2) the length of time to re-charge, and 3) The extreme variance in cost to re-charge at various locations. Some people will rip you off, while others give power away (at a cost to someone else). There needs to be reasonable regulations about this. (Only those damn communist want regulations).
The reason I would (and do) own a Volt instead of a pure EV us because of the above issues that still need to be resolved. Chevy is out of their mind to drop the Volt and go to straight EVs at this point in time.
 

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The reason I would (and do) own a Volt instead of a pure EV us because of the above issues that still need to be resolved. Chevy is out of their mind to drop the Volt and go to straight EVs at this point in time.
No they aren't. Reports are they were unable to turn a profit even on the 2nd Gen Volt, even with a $7500 kick in from the Feds helping to drive demand. That many of us have also managed to negotiate 5-10K off the MSRP speaks to a lack of demand for the car, regardless of how good it is. You don't get 50% off of a car that people want. I get that there was an advertising deficiency, but let's think about that too -- why are you going to spend money on advertising to push people into a car that you're making low margins on? With the incentive in sunset stages anyway, and presumably with many many other factors driving restructuring at GM, and an effective promise by the current administration not to renew or extend credits, there was no business case for the Volt to continue.

It was good while it lasted. I'm happy I drive one. It's an interesting lesson on the impact of government subsidies and market behavior.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
No they aren't. Reports are they were unable to turn a profit even on the 2nd Gen Volt, even with a $7500 kick in from the Feds helping to drive demand. That many of us have also managed to negotiate 5-10K off the MSRP speaks to a lack of demand for the car, regardless of how good it is. You don't get 50% off of a car that people want. I get that there was an advertising deficiency, but let's think about that too -- why are you going to spend money on advertising to push people into a car that you're making low margins on? With the incentive in sunset stages anyway, and presumably with many many other factors driving restructuring at GM, and an effective promise by the current administration not to renew or extend credits, there was no business case for the Volt to continue.

It was good while it lasted. I'm happy I drive one. It's an interesting lesson on the impact of government subsidies and market behavior.
Most people in the US are so satisfied and set in their ways that East coast cities could look like Venice Italy and they would still would but ICE cars.
 

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If you have any links to those "reports" I'd love to see em. I've only seen guesses as to why GM is discontinuing production. Makes sense, but an actual report would be nice. Makes all the teeth-gnashing moot.

The idea to advertise is to drive sales, and if you can drive sales, you can gain economies of scale, ie, negotiate better prices from suppliers of battery systems, etc. The tax credit was to help get the manufacturer over the hump. The thinking is that by the time a manufacturer has hit 200k vehicles sold, they've rationalized their production and gained those economies of scale so that they can now compete with other manufacturers that still need those credits as they ramp up production. Lots of people are saying Tesla and GM still need those credits to compete with the new manufacturers who are getting credits. Does that makes sense? Don't those new manufacturers have immense capital costs, ramping up production like GM and Tesla did all those years ago? GM and Tesla should be able to continue to compete from all that production efficiency they gained over the years, or what were they doing?

The fact that GM and Tesla are now lobbying for the federal government to continue subsidizing their sales, is a bit disingenuous. Why weren't they lobbying the gov't when the original tax credit bill was being debated, if the 200k vehicles built were not enough? They built their financial models based upon the existing credits, and still greenlighted their projects. It's poor financial planning if they now need the gov't to continue with the subsidy.

No they aren't. Reports are they were unable to turn a profit even on the 2nd Gen Volt, even with a $7500 kick in from the Feds helping to drive demand. That many of us have also managed to negotiate 5-10K off the MSRP speaks to a lack of demand for the car, regardless of how good it is. You don't get 50% off of a car that people want. I get that there was an advertising deficiency, but let's think about that too -- why are you going to spend money on advertising to push people into a car that you're making low margins on? With the incentive in sunset stages anyway, and presumably with many many other factors driving restructuring at GM, and an effective promise by the current administration not to renew or extend credits, there was no business case for the Volt to continue.

It was good while it lasted. I'm happy I drive one. It's an interesting lesson on the impact of government subsidies and market behavior.
 

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That many of us have also managed to negotiate 5-10K off the MSRP speaks to a lack of demand for the car, regardless of how good it is. I get that there was an advertising deficiency.
I would LOVE to see a $ 5-10 K discount. That's about CAD$6700 to $13,400 for round numbers.
If I could get that deal, I would be getting a new Volt.

I tried purchasing a 2019 Premier loaded - I could get the GM $1000 discount & was told that if there was no trade, they would give me another $1500.
Now, I am in Canada so the prices are in CAD$ but a discount on a $51,000 vehicle of $2500 made me say NO WAY!
So, I will continue on with my Volt that I love, even though I would have bought the 2019 Premier ACC model.
BTW: depreciation of ~ 50% over 2 years on a low mileage trade in.
 

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Chevy have never backed the Volt. I can't remember seeing an advertisement for one in the last several years. When I went to the local dealer to look at a Volt, the salesman was total ignorant about the Volt and couldn't even answer basic questions. The dealer told me "We just concentrate on Pick-ups at this dealership." The other day I was talking to a Prius owner. He had no idea that a Volt was functionally different than a Toyota hybrid, or what the differences were. He thought they were the same, and after I explained the differences, he said he would have considered one if he knew all that. Most people I talk to have little understanding of the Volt concept. It is so sad.

I think the top management of GM never put any support behind the Volt. I have no clue as to why. I think they are going to be sadly disappointed when their pure EV vehicle strategy is slow to develop. A car like the Volt is needed to lead us into all electric, but the masses don't even know what the Volt was all about.

Nobody in my area was offering the discounts mjones suggest.
 
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