GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/gm-says-hybrids-are-over-reboots-cadillac-as-an-electric-vehicle-leader

Pretty much gives another reason for losing the Volt though to be honest I still think a Volt with the battery capacity of the Bolt would be a good addition for those who still want sedans. Now this article did not suggest there was anything beyond the Cadillac expansion at this time. (there is an electrek article which references this Fox report but its that Fred guy)

I am in the camp that to best support GM and Tesla is to either renew the $7500 tax credit but with a cost limit on the car or ditch it entirely as these two led the charge and others should not be able to benefit without having risked what they both did
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,416 Posts
Answering an analyst’s question about the future of hybrids in the company’s lineup, Reuss called them a countermeasure to the internal combustion engine and said that resources would be redirected toward fully-electric cars, instead. The move represents a sharp departure by the company that championed plug-in hybrids with the soon to be discontinued Chevrolet Volt.
I'm severely disappointed by this. GM has failed at every hybrid they offered to date. And I don't mean technologically. I may keep my Volt well beyond its battery warranty now. I think its resale value just went up with this announcement by Reuss.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Yet Toyota succeeds at selling hybrids. What gives?
Prius was such a change up that when the second generation took off Toyota walked away with the Hybrid crown because no one else was even remotely trying. You could make the argument that Honda had a few attempts but they never put their heart into it. Plus Toyota did very well in making cars that just worked. Prius had the market presence it almost because the de facto choice when thinking "Hybrid". You could even say it reached cult status

I am pretty sure the Volt like the EV1 before it was an aberration for GM. The product people had a champion but product people tend to regularly get pushed aside when the numbers are down by the accountants who then just iterate instead of innovate.

I really did think the Volt was fantastic but its day in the sun was eclipsed by EVs. I posted way back that when customers would walk in a see a Bolt and Volt side by side with similar pricing some would think in their heads, that gasoline engine cost nearly two hundred miles of EV range, where is the cost benefit? If we do not see anything new on the Voltec platform then we can be sure that GM came to the same conclusion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,243 Posts
Hybrids are possibly the most complex propulsion systems ever developed, even when compared to jet engines and rockets. As such they're expensive to build and expensive to maintain. Pure EVs are far simpler to design, build, and maintain with a lot fewer moving parts. In fact, a dual motor EV where one motor for raw accelerations sits on the rear axle and one on the front axle for cruising and regenerative braking is probably the simplest power plant you can build in terms of moving parts. In fact, this configuration would eliminate the need for a transmission entirely as the two motors can sit in-line with the axles.

Technology aside, if anyone looks up the transition from horse & buggy to ICE for transportation they'll see that ICE took over in the cities quickly but took almost a generation before taking over rural areas. The reason was the rural areas didn't have the refueling infrastructure in place. EVs are in the same situation - hybrids cover this gap, and hybrids like the Volt give the benefit of a pure EV for most driving situations. GM is dropping hybrids way too early in this conversion from ICE to EV personal transportation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,979 Posts
I fully agree that GM is dropping hybrids way too early.

I disagree with you on the expense of hybrid maintenance. Since I use the engine for less than 10% of my miles, maintenance based on "engine miles" is very cheap and infrequent.

At the current rate of use, my spark plugs are going to outlive me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,347 Posts
Hybrids are possibly the most complex propulsion systems ever developed, even when compared to jet engines and rockets.
Not remotely true.

In fact, a dual motor EV where one motor for raw accelerations sits on the rear axle and one on the front axle for cruising and regenerative braking is probably the simplest power plant you can build in terms of moving parts.
I mean, a single motor EV does all that and is even simpler.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
when it comes to the complexity of the engines of hybrids we need to understand that covers a wide swath of drive train configurations. For the most part the Voltec system is far more complicated than simple hybrids. Any system which involves more than one motor introduces complications. Now some systems use an electric motor in the transmission or between it and the motor to boost power when needed to improve mileage then you have Voltec which went well beyond that. If anything it was always an EV with a REX which I think is separate from what many consider a traditional hybrid
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
I too think GM is giving up on hybrids too early, and the Volt appeals to a different buyer than the Bolt in many cases. I don't need 200 miles of range for 95% of my trips. I'd rather have a 40-50 miles battery with a gas back-up.

I haven't ever driven one, but it seems like the BMW I3 REX does things right, with the tiny motorcycle engine in the back (though it could use a slightly bigger gas tank), but a bit more range than the Volt. If GM could offer their BEV's with a gas REX option and a smaller battery, they would be able to appeal to both with less engineering cost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
I agree -- GM is dropping hybrids too early. I have a Volt (2018). I have two friends with Tesla Model 3s. For them, long trips require thought and planning. Traveling from LA to SF and back can be done, but if you're not careful you can get stranded. On the other hand, I can go wherever I want and never need worry about charging. And most important, I can go to work and back every day and never need gas.

This is my first electric vehicle. Six months into the lease, I know I will never buy an ICE car again. I love the smoothness, quietness, responsiveness. And for what it's worth, if I keep the AC/Heat off when possible, I can often see 130 MPGe.

Everybody who has taken a ride in my Volt was impressed. GM could have sold the hell out of this car, but like the EV1, they're dropping it. Same short-sighted thinking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,464 Posts
I have two friends with Tesla Model 3s. For them, long trips require thought and planning. Traveling from LA to SF and back can be done, but if you're not careful you can get stranded.
Umm. If you said the Bolt EV, I could at least half agree with you (traveling does require a bit of thought and planning -- or at least, a change of mindset). But driving a Model 3 from LA to SF and back again is pretty mindless and requires about the same amount of thought as driving your Volt along that route. I should know; I also own a Volt.

The biggest problem with the Volt at this point is that people turned their backs on GM and left them holding the bag. That happened with early U.S. Volt sales. That happened with Canadian Volt sales. That happened with the Australian Holden Volt. And it happened with the European Opel Ampera.

Automakers had eight years to catch up to GM's Volt, and the closest we've seen to date in terms of capability is the Honda Clarity PHEV. Now, after nearly a decade of lackluster sales by seemingly uninterested buyers, GM had enough. A complicated, low-margin vehicle with poor sales. The Volt really couldn't be justified any longer.

And now what happens? GM announces the cancellation, and everyone screams bloody murder. "Oh my god! GM's killing the EV again!" I didn't see those people clamoring for a Volt when I bought my 2012. And I didn't see them clamoring for a Volt when I traded my 2012 with 80,000+ miles in for a 2015 Volt. And I didn't see them clamoring for a Bolt EV when I gave my Volt to my mother.

For those of you who got your Volts, you should just thank GM for making such a great car. For those of you who never bought a Volt and are now complaining that GM is killing one of the best PHEVs that was ever built, I suggest putting your money where you mouth is next time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
976 Posts
For those of you who never bought a Volt and are now complaining that GM is killing one of the best PHEVs that was ever built, I suggest putting your money where you mouth is next time.
How you spend your money is pretty much one of the strongest statements you can make.

The biggest problem with the Volt at this point is that people turned their backs on GM and left them holding the bag. That happened with early U.S. Volt sales. That happened with Canadian Volt sales. That happened with the Australian Holden Volt. And it happened with the European Opel Ampera.
I know some people take issue with this kind of idea, but in terms of sales, you re right. For the general public education is key in this country to adopting change. Over the years, in my little corner of the world, I have been taking some time to let folks drive my EV's and discuss them. The idea being to let them have a first hand experience of what they are. EV cross country trips are more difficult to get a sense of in a short test drive. I think that videos like the ones you make are very useful to see what it is like to take a cross country trip in an EV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,416 Posts
The biggest problem with the Volt at this point is that people turned their backs on GM and left them holding the bag........
That statement and supporting comments imply that "people" owed something to GM.

Most folks don't know the Volt exists any more than they know who the vice president is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Volt is a very good, if not the best, plug-in hybrid. It is practical, and it should be marketed as such to the mass.

Unfortunately its advantage in practicality has been considered as lagging behind an ev, such as bolt. Volt is good, but Bolt is better. That's what you would hear everywhere, even from their own sales people.

Further more, marketing hybrid as more practical is even considered politically incorrect, as it undermines the greatness of ev. Didn't Toyota have to pull their TV promotion on Prius and apologize?

GM gave up on volt as they failed to market it. It is ineffective to describe it as second best. It should be as "best" as ev but in different way.

-TL


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,014 Posts
That statement and supporting comments imply that "people" owed something to GM.
No, it's an acknowledgement that people want something from GM. They're upset now that they might not get it. Nobody owes anything to GM, but GM doesn't owe ongoing production of the Volt to them either.

Most folks don't know the Volt exists any more than they know who the vice president is.
Pithy, but the ones that don't know what the Volt is spent ten years not hearing about it SOMEHOW. Why the interest (and corresponding upset) now? If it's not new, we're right back to Eric's question: Why didn't they buy then?

I mean, I bought mine. I bought it used. There's gonna be used Volts in good supply for a decade to come. I'm fine with that market.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,416 Posts
No, it's an acknowledgement that people want something from GM. They're upset now that they might not get it. Nobody owes anything to GM, but GM doesn't owe ongoing production of the Volt to them either.

Pithy, but the ones that don't know what the Volt is spent ten years not hearing about it SOMEHOW. Why the interest (and corresponding upset) now? If it's not new, we're right back to Eric's question: Why didn't they buy then?
OIC, we're bitching about bitches who didn't buy Volts. If I went down that rabbit hole every time someone got bitchy.....

"Everyone" is screaming bloody murder?

The use of "turned their backs on" is still inappropriate. GM's marketing was piss-poor, and the criticism of that from those who didn't "turn their backs" and did buy one shouldn't fall on deaf ears.

Are you suggesting that after all this time "people" should be expected to know what a Volt is and be rushing to the dealer to buy one? You know, because they're in debt to GM for gracing them with this great opportunity?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,014 Posts
OIC, we're bitching about bitches who didn't buy Volts. If I went down that rabbit hole every time someone got bitchy.....

"Everyone" is screaming bloody murder?

The use of "turned their backs on" is still inappropriate. GM's marketing was piss-poor, and the criticism of that from those who didn't "turn their backs" and did buy one shouldn't fall on deaf ears.

Are you suggesting that after all this time "people" should be expected to know what a Volt is and be rushing to the dealer to buy one? You know, because they're in debt to GM for gracing them with this great opportunity?
No, I'm suggesting that people complaining about the cancellation of the Volt be disregarded. Those that own Volts own Volts. They got no reason to complain because THEY ALREADY OWN ONE. Those that don't own Volts already have had PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY to buy one if they were interested, and will have a decade or more to buy a used one. And, there's gonna be the opportunity to buy a Clarity for a while longer yet if "hybrid with enough electric range for a day's commuting" is really that critical a market.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,464 Posts
OIC, we're bitching about bitches who didn't buy Volts. If I went down that rabbit hole every time someone got bitchy.....
Yes, my point is, a number of the people who are now criticizing GM's decision to drop the Volt never bought one or possibly ever promoted Volts to their friends. When the Volt came out, purists and non-EV people alike saw it as just a "hybrid." Why buy a hybrid from Chevy when you can buy a hybrid from Toyota? Forget the fact that it is a hands down better vehicle; I'll get a Prius instead.

Otherwise, for the purists, it wasn't EV enough. If you could afford a Tesla, great! They're going to save the world. If you can't afford a Tesla, lease a LEAF and drive your old beat up gas car when the LEAF can't do what you need it to. Either way, screw GM.

Now GM says, there's no point in making PHEVs when we can make no-compromise pure battery electric vehicles. Those same people who said "screw GM" are now accusing them of trying to "kill the electric car" again for the very first time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
I think folk who classify a Volt as a plug in hybrid are the same people who classify a tomato as a fruit.

With a single exception, all PHEV's fire up their gasoline engines to achieve rated horsepower, performance numbers, or top speed.
That exception is a EV with an optional little scooter engine in the back (BMW i3 REx) that lacks the gasoline power to go uphill at the speed limit and has a very limited combined range at 75+ mph.

The Volt is a better thought out i3 REx, not a PHEV in the operational sense.

It is truly a EREV, and the only one ever made that really works as intended.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
The problem with the Volt was the schools and internet.

The typical American does not understand an EREV nor has the education to understand it. Proof? The Prius Prime seats 4, has poor performance, runs off gasoline nearly every trip, and folk think it's superior to a Volt and has a useful EV range and mode.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top