GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
HI All...

New to the forum. Hope to buy 2014 Volt soon. Found a dealer with a 2014 with 2140 mile Volt, its a GM-Company car they have MSO for and claim Federal Tax credit could be available. Apparently GM or the Dealer has classified the car as Used and inspected it and given it a Certified GM car, with an extra 12/24, warranty.

Anyone know how the IRS views GM calling it Used vs me getting the MSO, meaning it has Never been Titled, as far as getting the Federal Tax Credit?

I am aware I must have over $7500 in income tax liability.

How does dealer demo car with 'x' number of miles of "usage" differ from a used GM-Company car? IRS Form 8936 says: " The original use of the vehicle began with you;".

That IRS clause worries me. I have asked this question of a local IRS office, several CPA's, and get either I dont know or 'a tax court will decide'.

Any experience with 2013 GM-Company Volt purchases getting the $7500 credit?

thanks so much for any assistance!!!!
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
877 Posts
I think you answered your question if the answer is I don't know or a tax court will decide do you really want to take this on?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,068 Posts
We bought a demo with 5k miles and had absolutely no trouble getting the tax credits from both fed and state. This would look the same as far as the credits go. If you get a price you like, go for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks ghostgs1 .....I too view this GM-Company car the same as a dealer demo car, so all logic says I should get the credit.

Of course, I am not certain my logic and IRS logic are the same.

So you or the dealer had Your cars MSO? Did they sell it to You as NEW? I presume they did. Only way IRS could possible know anything about the car is if the VIN is recorded by IRS, however a local irs agent said 'we dont have a data base of vins', which I find impossible to believe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Hi ghostgs1....not sure if my reply got thru...Was your Demo car purchase classified by dealer as NEW? I presume yes. My dealer calls the car Certified, which generally is in reference to Used cars.

Its the IRS clause "original use of the vehicle must commence with the taxpayer " that is the issue. How picky will they get? Dealer claims they sold other Volt GM-company cars and NO one complained about not getting credit.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,019 Posts
If it was titled, you can't claim the credit. So it's a company car, but was never titled? I wonder what would display on a VIN title search?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
387 Posts
Of course, I am not certain my logic and IRS logic are the same.
I saw IRS and logic in the same sentence and couldn't help but laugh. Every year around tax time I wonder how they could make the tax code any more complicated than it already is.

I'm all for a consumption tax. Get rid of income and property tax and just get us once when we buy stuff (groceries and toilet paper can be exempt). Even at 30-35% it would probably be about the same as what we are currently paying. This way the drug smugglers and prostitutes will also pay their fair share of taxes based on what they buy. Then the IRS can just concentrate on collections from businesses and not have to deal with any individual tax forms.

End tax soapbox.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,424 Posts
Interesting question ... most sales for cars never registered would be called "new", looks like in CA its required by law to call them used

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7863

Some would suggest you would get the credit, and its a high probability you will as the VIN hasn't been used for a tax credit ( MSO not used )

BUT

I would not recommend getting this vehicle, if the IRS challenges it, you wouldn't have documentation to show its "first time in service was you" as the contract states used.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks Henry....
Perhaps I will ask Dealer if the contract can say NEW.....

Tue I will be calling a IRS Tax Advocate....try to get a answer....I will also buy a lottery ticket since both have the same odds of success.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Hi Alchemy...
Yes tax code is complex. Of course us little folks dont have the lawyers and tax experts to look for loopholes. So I suspect IRS is constantly trying plug those holes for Corps to cheat thru.

Nevertheless....I digress and question the lack of clarity of my Volt rebate issue.....perhaps by the time I FEEL satisfied the car will be sold ...so I will move ON.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Hi Steveino
Dealer has and I saw what they said was the MSO. So apparently never titled. However, its the IRS usage must commence with taxpayer clause that seems iffy to me. I was a accounting major ....40+yrs ago.....so by nature picky.

I will look for a VIN search, good Idea, thanks. I know it hasn't been registered in Minn, where I am, but now just need to worry about the other 49. Heaven knows where its been.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,424 Posts
Have the dealer run a carfax ( VIN ), but in the end if the sales contract says used, your never going to be certain to qualify for the tax credit if challenged
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,416 Posts
Hi ghostgs1....not sure if my reply got thru...Was your Demo car purchase classified by dealer as NEW? I presume yes. My dealer calls the car Certified, which generally is in reference to Used cars.

Its the IRS clause "original use of the vehicle must commence with the taxpayer " that is the issue. How picky will they get? Dealer claims they sold other Volt GM-company cars and NO one complained about not getting credit.
Consignment is the act of consigning, which is placing any material in the hand of another, but retaining ownership until the goods are sold or person is transferred. This may be done for shipping, transfer of goods to auction, or for sale in a store (i.e., a consignment shop). To consign means to send and therefore consignment means sending goods to another person. In case of consignment goods are sent to the agent for the purpose of sale. The ownership of these goods remains with the sender. The agent sells the goods on behalf of the sender, according to his instructions. The sender of goods is known as consignor and the agent is known as the consignee.
The ownership of the car hasn't been transferred from the manufacturer to the "first owner" yet, at which point the DMV issues the first title. It's at your dealer on consignment.

MANUFACTURER’S CERTIFICATE OF ORIGIN (MCO) OR
MANUFACTURER’S STATEMENT OF ORIGIN (MSO)

The Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO) or Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin (MSO) is a document issued by the manufacturer recording the first transfer of the vehicle from the manufacturer to the dealer or distributor. The MCO or MSO lists the vehicle identification number, vehicle description, and the dealer or distributor receiving the vehicle.
An accurate description of what an MCO is from the South Carolina DMV. The dealer has to provide this document to the DMV when they record your title, as a transfer of ownership to you from the manufacturer.

realcartips.com said:
Demo cars are new cars that have been driven by employees, family members, or customers of a the dealership for a few months. They usually have between 2,000 and 6,000 miles on the odometer, but they are not considered used vehicles.

Since they were never sold, they are legally considered new, so they qualify for all rebates, special financing, and the new car warranty.
California law requires that demo cars (vehicles used by manufacturer or dealership representatives) be described as "used".

California V C Section 11713
No holder of any license issued under this Article shall do any of the following:

(t) Advertise a vehicle for sale that was used by the selling licensee in its business as a demonstrator, executive vehicle, service vehicle, rental, loaner, or lease vehicle, unless the advertisement clearly and conspicuously discloses the previous use made by that licensee of the vehicle. An advertisement shall not describe any of those vehicles as "new."
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
877 Posts
What happens if you don't get the tax credit? Is it worth the risk? Unless the deal is so sweet that you can't lose why risk it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,068 Posts
Yes, car was still considered new and came with the MSO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Thanks to all who replied! The car is a 2014 Volt Prem Trim, Nav, Bose, Leather, heated seats, Enh Saf pak 1 with camera...its the GM -Company car ....Dealer asking less than 30K. Which seems to be about $4k less than what I have seen nationally.

Several dealers advertise lower only to find they did not include $810 delivery charge.....wish I could NOT pay for that! Or they include discounts few if anyone can get ....Farm Bureau credit or USAA.

So I think the deal is worth at least asking a few questions before buying or going elsewhere.
thanks Volt-ers!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
If the dealer is selling with MSO and claiming rebate has not been taken, and was never titled wouldn't the IRS go after the dealer if there is a problem come tax time?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,416 Posts
If the car is titled with an MCO (a 'first title') then that's all the IRS needs to know.

"The vehicles must be acquired for use or lease and not for resale. Additionally, the original use of the vehicle must commence with the taxpayer and the vehicle must be used predominantly in the United States. For purposes of the 30D credit, a vehicle is not considered acquired prior to the time when title to the vehicle passes to the taxpayer under state law."

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Plug-In-Electric-Vehicle-Credit-(IRC-30-and-IRC-30D)
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top