[NZDavid1]

Interesting, But Lutz still said what he said.

Edit: How come we only get five minutes to edit?

 

[nasaman]

My sincere hope is that GM will place contracts with BOTH suppliers (assuming both prove fully acceptable), even if there is a cost difference. The supply problems both they & Toyota are having with a "proven technology" NiMh battery for hybrid applications should be incentive enough to also negotiate high-volume purchase agreements with both Li-Ion suppliers ---this is what both companies will need to justify the huge investment they MUST do to build fully-automated cell AND pack assembly lines! Using a single supplier would border on insanity!!!

 

[Al122]

Now, we really have the competition confused. I think it is good to keep the competition confused. Toyota don't tell us a thing so why should GM divulged so much info. When it comes, we will all know. By knowing ahead of time, it won't make the product any better and it sort of lose some of the glamor. Keep going GM. I can not wait for the final product.

 

[Murray1]

I like the silver one... hehehe

I agree w/ you Joe #3... and of course I just want one that works!

I think I'm ready to see the final design, I say I 'think I'm ready' because I've been talking myself down ever since the concept failed in the tunnel.....

yeah, I'm ready....lets see it!

 

[NZDavid1]

Nasaman did you read the article referred in my post 56 on the previous thread? Has a great deal of info on NiMH batteries.
Regards

 

[kent_beuchert]

I found a PDF file online, written by CPI (can't relocate the link) which announced that they had won and congradulated all involved. They must have written this in anticipation, apparently.

 

[Statik]

#6 kent

It's old...I made the same mistake.

 

[Jason_M._Hendler]

#3, Joe,

Transparency is the best path to success. It is only when information is hidden that people are able to subvert an effort. Of course, I am talking about individuals within an effort, not external forces. It's best to attempt something with all those external forces at work, to determine if your team is truly on board, and with the spotlight on everyone, dissenters can't hide.

In this, and other cases I've seen, it is the open sharing of radical ideas that are safest to pursue transparently. External and internal doubters are happy to give you all the rope to hang yourself, and when it works, it's too late for anyone to stop it.

 

[Tim1]

"...a significant technical undertaking, we are not in a position to limit our options..."

Once they officially choose a supplier, the other will stop helping.

The BEST way for us ALL to win in this race to electrify transportation is for us to quit poisoning the intellectual well with childish guessing games and let them continue to compete to the end. Free, fair and level competition always brings the best result at the lowest cost.

I will NOT shake this Christmas present, ruin the surprise and possibly break it.

 

[Statik]

I think if you read the old thread, a couple days ago, 90 percent of us were amazed that GM had chosen LG, myself included. I thought A123 was the choice 'du jour'

Even though I think A123 was/is a better choice...and 2 choices, I guess, would be better than 1. I am dismayed that GM has not chosen either one. Not because it is a bad decision, but because it continues 'the trend'

Here is my quote from the old thread when we thought GM had pulled the trigger and decided a supplier,

"Count me in the numbers of the surprised many it is not A123...And by my estimation, this is the very first thing that GM has delivered on it’s promise when it comes to the Volt. They said, “Here are the two guys that will be competing for the contract. Go make it, bring it to us, we will test it…and in a year, we will give out the contract.”

"I can give credit where it is due. It doesn’t hurt me at all to say this, “Good job GM”

I take it back. Same old, same old GM.

If your trying to rationalize this news as 'good news' somehow because they can still have 2 suppliers. They have never indicated this would be end in a 2 supplier contract...so it is pointless to spin it as such. "Speculation aside, a final supplier has not been chosen. We’ll let everyone know when it has" The only news here is a missed deadline.

 

[Eco1]

If LG wins, they have a more "known" brand in manufacturing, I think. It may help GM to go with a conglomerate of such reach.

A123 has not even had an IPO yet. So...if A123 loses, then I hope they preserved enough of their rights to the intellectual property they developed to put their product in another company's vehicle.

To use a sports analogy, teams try not to trade good players to teams they have to play often. Sometimes they keep them on the payroll, just to prevent it.

 

[Slave to Opec]

Assuming both packs have similar performance, I believe GM will be very price sensative when choosing a pack provider.

Whom do you believe will be the lowest bidder; a pack made in America or one made in Korea ?

 

[Statik]

#9 Tim

"Once they officially choose a supplier, the other will stop helping"

Ain't that the truth! That could be GM's motto.

So let's string everyone along as long as possible. That could be GM's motto. Let's let people believe in something until the last possible moment so we get the greatest advantage.

Whether it be suppliers laboring under false pretenses of a contract from GM? Whether it be 20,000 people on GM-volt.com believing in our press releases until it is apparent they are not valid? Whether it be 3,000 workers in a truck plant we guaranteed had jobs just two weeks ago, until we got them to sign off on a deal to shut down another plant....now we tell them they are out on their behinds.

On a personal note, I myself am a 'GM supplier' for clothing goods, I have felt this first hand. (Ironically, mostly for the closing truck plant) They used to make me jump through hoops, get me this sample, get me that, oh this other supplier can get it for $.50 cheaper, we will pay you later, etc.

I wised up, I told them they are cash/upfront only...and they pay for 'spec work' They went away for a year or so, "thats not the way you do business with GM" But they came back, true they order alot less...but I make more money. ( I find this not this not uncommon with large corporations...I would say a third of them try to get away with this sort of thing)

 

[omegaman66]

I find it hard to believe that both of these companies combined could keep up with the demand if GM will move forward and start converting their autos to e-flex.

Apparently these two are among the best. Snatch them up now.

 

[cdavis1]

Keep it competitive:

Make it a GM policy to keep a minimum of two battery vendors as suppliers. Each year award the lowest cost vendor a volume benefit derived by indexing the cost delta. Example: If Vendor 1 is 10% lower in cost than Vendor 2, then Vendor 1 gets 60% the contract and Vendor 2 gets 40% the contract. Also index the contract award on a prior year quality metric (i.e. repair incidents). This will put the contract award opportunity in the vendor’s hands and self regulate an optimum cost/quality ratio. The battery vendors would of course be required to meet minimum quality and technical specifications.

It will be important for both consumers and dealers to be able to easily identify the battery vendor and version number. Publish the name, serial number, and version of the battery on an easily viewable battery placard (similar to the VIN placard).

Battery technology is entering into a new age of rapid innovation. The cost/benefit proposition of battery vendor selection will become very fluid.

 

[Firefly1]

#2 Nasaman is absolutely on point. One would think that in order to reach production goals that if both battery makers have pack that are meeting or exceeding target goals, then why not use both? A while back GM had the 4.3 V6 engine that was built in two different plants (Tonawanda and Romulus). Yet no one really bickered about which plant their S-10 engine came from. I say use both packs and develop software that makes the most of each, then worry about the lesser issues as they come. Perhaps offer online or dealer site downloaded updates.

 

[Dean_Anderson]

Who supplied the NiMH batteries for the GM hybrids ?
9,000 were just recalled.

 

[Firefly1]

#15 CDAVIS
That's an excellent idea. Especially if GM decided to lease the batteries out (which I'm not sure they will or won't do).