GM Volt Forum banner

Gen III Volt. What does it need to be/have to increase sales numbers?

7K views 68 replies 39 participants last post by  hellsop 
#1 ·
The Gen II Volt was a good improvement over the Gen I, but what needs to be done by GM for the Gen III Volt to get better acceptance and sales numbers? Just greater battery range? Better styling? A CUV model?
 
#2 ·
IMHO it just needs a full size back seat.

Make it a Wagon with 3" of lift and Americans will flock to it. The recipe seems to be working for Subaru and Euro manufacturers have followed suit. As I once heard a motor journalist say "Americans hate hatchbacks... unless you lift it and call it a crossover, THEN they can't get enough of them".
 
#3 ·
Bigger and more of them... There needs to be a bigger Volt and it needs to be advertised more aggressively. The Prius is still the number one selling hybrid because it has name recognition and a lot more cargo capacity.

A battery range increase would be nice, but not necessary. Faster charging would also be nice.

I think a small Volt and a Volt+ (Volt Plus) would be a good combination. A small Volt for better efficiency and a larger one for better cargo capacity. Just like the Prius and Prius V.
 
#4 ·
Cheaper. But until the price is in line with other cars of the same size, it will be a tough sell. The average Joe doesn't look past the MSRP when making a buying choice.

And for now, it will be hard to build a Volt in the same price range without taking a hit on profit. And few companies are willing to sacrifice profit.

Eventually people will figure it out (the evolution is coming, just slowly).

I really, really want a CUV/SUV with a Voltec drive train.
 
#5 ·
While I agree that a CUV with Voltec needs to happen. That is not what a "Volt" is. A Volt is a compact hatchback.

Honestly what I think needs to happen for Gen III:
1. Make it cheaper. With the US federal EV incentive likely going away the Volt is currently too expensive.
2. Target an EV range of 45 - 50 miles. With improving battery technology the battery will be smaller, lighter and less expensive while still being the best PHEV on the market. This will also allow the benefit of better vehicle packaging and the reduced weight and will give better gas only fuel economy.
3. With the smaller battery use that extra space for rear seat accommodation and cargo space packaging.
4. Make it a global vehicle. If parts of the US are not interested in EV's the rest of the world is moving on. Design the car to be used in the rest of the world.
5. Improved vehicle charging. 6.6KW L2 charging minimum should be standard now. Harmonizing on 7.2KW (32A) charging might be a good option so the same equipment could be used across multiple cars and would better utilize public charging that is fee based. I don't think DC fast charging is necessary in this type of car.
 
#24 ·
This Exactly.

Just refine the original intent of the design and make small improvements. Decreasing cost should be the priority, as buyers of compact cars are looking for the lower entry price.

Now an Equinox or Terrain sized vehicle with 40 miles EV for $55k would probably sell like crazy.
 
#6 · (Edited)
It needs to be half a Bolt, i.e. the Bolt's MPGe and 1/2 of a Bolt battery so that it has 120 miles of EV range plus the same range extender as the Gen2 which needs no improvement. The bigger battery could be an option because there are people that don't need the extra range but for many people, myself included, the current range is grossly inadequate. At 1/2 Bolt the car would be a true electric for all local driving and would only need it's gas engine for road trips. In a perfect world there would be a BEV with the same range as the Volt, 450, at the Volt/Bolt's price but that simple isn't possible with the current battery technology. To get the Volt's range today you would need a ton of batteries which is counter productive because most of the time you would be schlepping around all that weight for no reason which would hurt your MPGe. Batteries with 2X the energy density of the Bolt's batteries could be 10 years away (hopefully sooner but the historic rate of battery improvement is 2X per decade), so it's impossible to build a good enough Bolt until that happens. However it is possible to build a good enough Volt today. The battery pack in the Bolt is 900lbs, a little more than twice the weight of the Gen2's battery pack so if you took 1/2 of that pack, 30KWh, and coupled it with the other improvements that they made in the Bolt which has about 15% better MPGe than the Gen2 Volt, you would have a Volt that could go 120 miles on the battery and still go anywhere which the Bolt can't do. I think 120 miles is the magic number for local driving. I look at all of my local trips, to Boston, to Rockport, to Jaffery NH, they are all 50 to 60 miles so 120 miles would cover the round trip. My longer trips, which I do every weekend in good weather, would still require the engine but in the Volt they are perfectly doable, in the Bolt they are undoable and in a Tesla, which has a rudimentary fast charging network, they could only be done in a 100D, which costs more than I paid for my house, plus a lot of planning.

Aside from the greater range it would be nice if they offered the standard amenities that you expect in a car in that price range, i.e. power seats, moon roof, AWD. I would certainly pay extra for AWD and power seats. The styling of the Volt is fine, I would expect the next one to be tweaked a little bit to match whatever the styling for other Chevy's is for that year, but the current Volt is vastly more attractive than the Bolt.

Giving it a little more thought, it's time that they introduced a range of Voltec/Boltec cars. By that I mean in addition to the Volt offer a Malibu and an Impala all of which have the following options,

Hybrid, i.e. ICE plus small battery, maybe a little more battery than the current Malibu hybrid so that it can do 30 miles on battery which would still be better than the Prius.
60 mile battery plus ICE, Voltec
120 mile battery plus ICE, Voltec
240 mile battery, no ICE, iBoltec

One of the Volt's main problems is that it's too small. I've come to like the small size, in a world of parking spaces that have been laid out for monster trucks it's painless parking the Volt, but most people prefer larger cars.
 
#7 ·
What does the Gen III Volt need to really grow sales? An MSRP under $30k. $29,990 would work well in 2018 for the Gen II.


But by the time the Gen III shows up in 2011 or thereabouts, the tax credit will be long gone, so $26,990 might be needed.

Having a flat back seat with leg room sufficient for 3 adults would help a lot, as would, though to a lesser extent, faster charging. But MSRP is the main killer of the Volt and it will remain a problem for the next couple years. GM doesn't think selling Volts is important (at this time) so mediocre sales figures are acceptable to them.
 
#8 ·
If Chevy cares about sales, make it a CUV.

Compacts do not sell. Expensive compacts sell even worse.

Chevy Sonic sales went into the toilet once the Chevy Trax was released.

The numbers don't lie.
 
#9 ·
I don't think EV buyers want CUVs. The Bolt has had incredible press, nothing but glowing reviews, but it isn't selling in large numbers. The Model 3 has reservations for 450K cars, the Bolt is in track to sell 25-30K cars this year. The Model S outsells the Model X by a wide margin. In the long run, i.e. when EVs cost reach parity with ICE costs, then you would expect that the preference for trucks and SUVs will also apply to EVs, but right now they are only selling to early adopters and their tastes are different.
 
#12 ·
The Volt would sell much better if gas was $5 a gallon
And the state would quit inflating electricity far above its 2 cent per KWHR production cost.
 
#62 ·
The Volt would sell much better if gas was $5 a gallon
And the state would quit inflating electricity far above its 2 cent per KWHR production cost.
Yep...that would do it...:)
 
#14 ·
For me it's PRICE, PRICE and PRICE. It's going to have to compete with ever improving ICE/MPG vehicles and without the implied $7500 tax credit it's going to be hard to compete with the next gen of small/mid-sized ICE mobiles selling for $10/$12K less.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Voltec cars will never be cost competitive with ICE cars because they are the sum of the costs of an EV and an ICE car. All you save is the 9 speed transmission, I'm sure the Volt's planetary gear is less expensive than a true transmission but it can't make up for the motors, electronics and battery that the EV drive train require. BEVs can in theory be cheaper than ICE cars, it all comes down to battery costs. Electric motors are vastly simpler than internal combustion engines and they don't require transmissions, turbos or catalytic converters so if you can get battery costs way down from where they are now a BEV is theoretically cheaper than an ICE car. However for BEVs to be a true replacement for ICE cars they need at least as much, and perhaps more, range than an ICE car. The problem is that there will never be enough fast charging stations to make shorter range BEVs acceptable for anything but local driving. All gasoline is supplied by gas stations, there is no such thing a filling up at home, EVs are charged at home 95-98% of the time which means that the market for charging stations is only 2% of the size of the gas station market and it will get smaller as battery capacity increases. It might be as long as 10 years before battery density gets to the point where you can build a BEV that has the range to do a long day trip without charging in the mean time you need range extenders like Volt's. A range extended EV with the range to handle all of your local driving, and I think that number is 100-120 miles, is for all practical purposes a true EV but it still has the capability of handling a 400 mile day trip as need be. That car will never be a $25K car, it's a $40K car. The trick is to make the car worth $40K. An Audi A4, which is comparable in size to the Volt, is $50K but it's AWD not FWD and it handles better. The performance of an EV is inherently better than an ICE car. The Volt's 0-60 time is under 8 seconds and the Bolt's is under 7 which puts it in the company of turbo charged ICE cars which sell for more than the typical Chevy, an EV can have any 0-60 time that you want, a 100D is 2.3 seconds, Chevy might want to lop another second off of the Bolt's time which would put it in the range of a big V8. Voltecs should be marketed against premium cars and they should have premium features such as AWD.
 
#17 ·
IMHO: cost, marketing, availability and quality/service are the factors that GM should be improve on, for Gen III Volt. Gen III Volt can also benefit from a more efficient gasoline engine but given its significant AER (which will likely go up with Gen III), investing more in the gasoline engine will have diminished returns.
 
#18 ·
Agreed, a common platform with other hybrids, have a plugin, hybrid, and BEV version. Volt is a bad form factor for an expensive car as pointed out. Cut the range back in line with the Prius Prime, price it in the mid 20s, have a 200 mile range BEV version and a 60 mpg hybrid version. Ioniq seems to be doing okay.

Honestly, the 53 mile range on Gen II is for compliance reasons, a 2017 PHEV gets two credits for that instead of 1, but next year that drops to around 1 credit or so. They could increase the range up to 80 miles, but that maxes out the ZEV credits at 1.3 or something, don't think that is cost effective. Reducing the range to 30 miles or so would probably cut costs $2500+, however, they risk annoying existing Volt drivers and might lose their market entirely.

Unsure what they will do, but ZEV credit changes hit MY 2018 vehicles.
 
#19 ·
Anyone have an idea how the Malibu Hybrid sells compared to the Malibu Hybrid? There's only $2750 starting MSRP price difference between an LT and a hybrid Malibu.

If sales of the Malibu Hybrid are lacking, that might tell us something about price sensitivity. More likely it's due to the fact there are only 1761 available nationwide (many optioned to $35K) compared to 34,677 for the LT (using cars.com data).
 
#26 ·
Anyone have an idea how the Malibu Hybrid sells compared to the Malibu Hybrid? There's only $2750 starting MSRP price difference between an LT and a hybrid Malibu.
More interesting will be the LaCrosse, where the standard base is now a mild hybrid priced $2500 below the old base. To get the prices down you need volume.

Assuming the rumors pan out, the XT4 should also be interesting. One variant supposedly has the Voltec drive train found in CT6, which will provide more HP and torque than any other model variant.
 
#21 ·
Good point, instead of making the Volt cheaper, make it slightly more expensive and maybe a bit larger (Malibu sized). Give it features expected in the price class. AWD, glass roof, Super Cruise, 0-60 in less than 6 seconds, etc. Sales stay about the same or go up slightly.
 
#22 ·
The next Volt, if there is one, needs to be more unique and performance oriented. The current Gen 2 looks too much like a Chevy Cruze or Honda Civic. People go into a dealer and get shown a Cruze for 15k less. The next Gen has to offer performance and better handling. 200+ HP motor, IRS and an additional range to 60 miles per charge. It would have to be a sub 5 second 0-60 car. The bigger cars will be the Malibu (for the Camry folks) and Bolt (for the wagon folks). The next Gen Volt has to be more unique like the Vette or Camaro. It's true it can't sell as a volume compact car. It has to offer something more. If not it will go away and the drive-train will be used on other products.
 
#25 ·
The ICE doesn't need to change, performance in an electric car is from the electric drivetrain and a bigger battery will allow for better 0-60 times. The ICE needs to be big enough to handle charging the battery and crusing at highway speeds, the Volt's ICE is more than good enough for that. Bumping the battery size up to 30KWh will provide enough extra surge current to get the 0-60 times down to the 6s. If they wanted to add in some supercaps as a sort of electric turbo that would allow them to drop the 0-60 times into the 5s but I don't think that Chevy is interested in doing something like that, however with a bigger battery you get better acceleration for nothing so that will happen. As for styling I agree with you that the Volt looks like a Honda, in fact I've mistaken silver Acura's and Accords for my Volt in parking lots, you have to look for the shark fin to find your Volt. The secret of the Prius's success is that it's distinct, hideous but distinct. People who bought Prius's were making a statement, and the unique styling advertised to the world that they were driving a Prius (or Pious as they said on South Park). The problem with GM making the Volt and Bolt standout is that there is a better than even chance they will screw it up, if the Volt was as unsightly as a Prius I don't think I would have bought it.
 
#23 ·
I enjoy my Gen2, I drive a lot for work 75 miles or so a day, and i average about 70% in EV mode, that being said: Unless Chevy pulled a home run out of their ass, I honestly will be getting a model3 ~ 2019 probably. By home run I mean, 100+ miles of EV range, better performance, and killer looks and it has to be cheaper than $35,000. Realistically speaking maybe only 1 out of those 3 are possible. Let's just use the 35k price point as a marker, anything more and there's really no point since by that time you can walk into any Tesla dealership and for the same base price get a sexy 100% EV sporty hyper connected little car.

I'd be interested in a Bolt if it wasn't so butt ugly and frumpy. As a single guy, no kids, and no need for rear seat "utility" whatever I get has to at least look sexy/fast. I think the Gen2 is pretty good looking, not ultra sporty or anything but decent. Hell just engineer a Bolt powerpack/drivetrane into something sexy similar to the volt and I'd be paying attention.

Anyone remember the "art/concept" website the Chevy Jolt: http://www.chevyjoltev.com/

If Chevy did that - I'd be *REALLY* paying attention.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Looking at the 'Daily Driving' graphs on voltstats for the different model year groups is illluminating. It is fairly clear that the Gen 1 cars have not quite hit the 'sweet spot' of ideal AER for local driving, whereas the Gen 2 cars just about have. These other manufacturers which offer cars with teen and twenties AER may satisfy some buyers. But in the larger scheme of things, AER really should be 50+ miles. Then it becomes a trade-off between lugging around an ICE, or a huge battery. Different consumers will make different choices.

IMHO, a Gen 3 Volt would have more attention paid to rear seat head- and leg-room. The 1/2, or more likely 1/3rd (about 20kWh usable), Bolt pack idea sounds good too - with some of the pack being under the floor instead of through the center. If they can nudge the MPG of the gas engine up a tad to make better marketing numbers, it would help.

Definitely need a larger Voltec vehicle. Last night I was talking with some friends who would have been interested in one during a recent car purchase. But she needs to tote her 6' tall harp on occasion. So they ended up with something else.

Of course I'd like to see some sort of "SS" model with higher performance Sport mode - like the ELR had.
 
#28 ·
Raise the clearance so that Forest Service Road pot holes, boulders, and water diversions do not bottom-out the vehicle. Install Envision solar-powered charging stations at trailheads and campgrounds. Provide anywhere from 50 to 100-mile range on battery pack. Offer AWD for those who are nervous about buying FWD in winter weather driving conditions. Expand cargo bed potential and true passenger seating room behind the driver. The Chrysler Pacifica hybrid plug-in already offers AWD option and a bed 96" long x 54" long, so I could actually convert it to a small RV for comfort glamping.
 
#29 ·
Open up a new brand, similar to what GM did with Saturn, but instead make its brand focus ELECTRIC. This would be an answer to Tesla, who seems to have no problem selling electric vehicles. This new brand would sell EVs and EREVs. First and foremost, get rid of the affiliation with Chevy -- too much negative baggage there. Make sure that the new Electric brand (whatever they call it) becomes known for quality, and has a range of models from cheap family-hauler to trucks to high-end refined vehicles. And for godsake get away from interiors filled with cheap, rattling/buzzing/clicking clip-on plastic cladding (except perhaps for the low-end family haulers, whose buyers probably won't care so much). If other car makers can do it GM should be able to do it if they can shake the negative brand image.
 
#30 ·
The problem with a new brand is that they give up their greatest advantage over Tesla, their extensive dealer network. Massachusetts had two Tesla service locations, none in NH, so if I were to buy a Tesla I'd have to travel for an hour and worse it would involve driving on Route 128. If I was unhappy with my Chevy dealer, which I'm not, I have two more dealers that are within 15 minutes of me. That's true everywhere, you can't through a stone without hitting a Chevy dealer in this country. If they were to just use their existing dealer networks for the new brand then it would have no practical effect at all, how would it change anything if my dealer's sign read Cadillac, Chevrolet and Bolt rather than just Cadillac, Chevrolet? It would be much better if they used the EVs as halo cars to get people into Chevy showrooms, for that to work they need to keep separate name plates for the EVs, i.e. keep Volt, Bolt and if they do a midsize or large EV a new name of that type not a Malibu-E or an Impala-E. I would have been less inclined to buy a Volt if it had been called a Cruze-E even though that's essentially what it is.
 
#34 ·
The back seat is a joke on the Gen 2 with the middle back seat being a bad practical joke. I am not tall, at 5'8", and with the drivers seat adjusted to my liking, the drivers side rear seat is cramped for me. If the middle rear seat was not a bad practical joke, they would not have put 2 cup holders (for the "real" back seats) where the middle rear seat passengers legs are supposed to go.

I disagree 100% with the having distinct EREV cars. The Volt should have been the Cruz Voltec with upmarket features (heated and cooled power seats, sunroof, supercruise, and best performance of the Cruz lineup) to justify the high cost and expand the Voltec drivetrain as an option in other Chevy products, all targeted at 50 miles of range and 50 mpg on the gasoline engine for cars, and 40 miles range with 40 mpg on trucks and SUV's.

Keith
 
#39 ·
A larger battery appeals to EV enthusiasts. But to the general public, not so much. Ford and Toyota have decently successful plug-in hybrids with less than half of the range. So, range isn't the issue. For one thing, the vehicle is small and even though I think it is the perfect size, most current Americans prefer something larger. However, the Bolt even is not quite large enough. It's just taller, that's all. So the way for it to ultimately be a success is for its technology to wind up in vehicles that are better selling vehicles in the first place. And, of course, a general desire on the part of the consumer to want an EV to begin with would help a lot!

But let's put that aside and ask what changes or tweaks would make the current Volt more successful to the general public? Oddly enough, possibly LESS range. The Volt doesn't really offer anything in the eyes of the public that really give it any value over a Cruze. So to make the car more widely appealing, one of two things need to happen. One would be to offer a "Volt Lite" at a cheaper price. It would be a better value. That might mean sacrificing some equipment that is currently standard, as well as reducing the battery size. In a configuration like that, it would probably rely more on the ICE for hard acceleration just like other low-end PHEVs. Alternatively, GM could try creating a high-end version of the Volt that is performance based. For example, put a rear motor and advertise it as having all-wheel-drive. Also, between the 3 electric motors and the ICE, a special sport mode should be able to give some impressive drag-strip results that might allow them to compare the performance to a Tesla Model 3. That would certainly add credibility to the car and siphon some of those Model 3 sales.
 
#40 ·
I think Gen II Volt has an edge over many right now as it is a mature vehicle in a sweet spot of its product cycle. The current range is good for Gen II but Gen III will need to compete with many new PHEV in 2021 so it will need to grow to stay the leader. They need to increase advertising / awareness to help increase sales BUT remember the car is currently the #1 PHEV - it's successful with loyal owners and industry wide consensus that it's a phenomenal car. The whole EV market is slowly growing so it's not like they can sell 10K cars a month since the EV market is not there yet for anyone. The hope is Tesla does not mess up the Model 3 launch since if they help bring EV more mainstream, the Volt sales will surge if Chevrolet advertise it when Tesla grows the market in the next 6-18 months. The current car is damn good - it feels solid and stable. Just build on that because that means a lot when selecting a car to buy.

Oh - 1 minor thing - bring back the homelink garage door opener - why is that gone in Gen II?!?!?
 
#41 ·
2 door
all wheel drive
25 kw of battery
able to shut off air conditioning
better heat
usb jacks delayed off
option for battery only
option for engine only
more power
less buggy software
on the fly ,updates
locking diffs
more power
to be able to do a 4 wheel drift
and until such time , I will be happy driving my volt
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top