GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,464 Posts
I don't care who the President is (Democrat, Republican, etc.), I don't like the idea of private "meetings" with CEOs. Corporations and capitalism are the new religion, and I've always supported a secular government.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,890 Posts
"This hybrid Mustang will not be a plug-in car. Like a Toyota Prius, the only electricity the new hybrid Mustang will use will be what is generated by the car itself and stored in a powerful battery pack."

I guess the average CNN writer/reader has a different idea of what "electric" means compared to folks on this forum, or anyone familiar with EV's, really.

And I'm sure the folks at Ford are super pleased about the phrase "Like a Toyota Prius" being used to describe a Mustang. :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,409 Posts
I don't care who the President is (Democrat, Republican, etc.), I don't like the idea of private "meetings" with CEOs. Corporations and capitalism are the new religion, and I've always supported a secular government.
It's called oligarchy and we've been moving in that direction for some time and neither the Republicans nor the Democrats care either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,556 Posts
Having never owned a vehicle that is a 4 letter word that starts with an F, I can't wait. My relatives in Kansas will hate me if I jump ship from Chevy to Ford but it appears that Ford is doing what I've been begging GM to do for years, make all your cars electric capable so we are not stuck choosing between an econoboxes (volt/volt) or a flagship luxury vehicles (ELR/CT6). I want a Voltec Subyukonade already. I'll even settle for an EV corvette for my daily commute.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,431 Posts
The Hybrid Mustang will probably use an uprated version of Ford's HF35 EDU, which is being used in the Fusion and C-Max (both Hybrid and Energi). That EDU only has 118 HP, so if the engineers want to give the Mustang V8 power, the new EDU has to supply at least 250 HP, almost double the present HF35 power.

The new EDU probably will be a RWD, since that is how the Mustang body was designed. So it could be similar to the EDU that powers the Cadillac CT6 plug-in hybrid, which is being assembled in China this year. And if it has more torque, it could be used in the hybrid versions of Ford's SUVs and trucks. I believe that a hybrid F-150 may be produced before the hybrid Mustang.

I follow both domestic manufacturers (GM and Ford) so I hope some information about this new EDU will be out by year's end.

BTW, an EDU is an "Electric Drive Unit", a term defined by the SAE and seen in the papers that GM presented when the Gen 2 Volt was explained. According to the SAE, an EDU integrates a propulsion system (electric motors), a gear set, a differential (FWD), and control electronics in a single package. The gas engine (attached to the EDU clutch), the HV traction battery, and a set of axles and wheels complete the package. It isn't called a "transmission" because it has more components and doesn't shift gears. All hybrids run in "Reverse" by reversing the electric motor (the gas engine cannot do that).

The Gen 2 Volt uses the 5ET50 EDU.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,468 Posts
Not sure they're targeting the best demographic here...Are there actually people saying they want to buy a V8 powered mustang and want it quieter and better MPG? The one thing that could differentiate a hybrid mustang is if they make it AWD...

I think the best demo for this car would be the base convertible...Go to most any car rental place, request a convertible and you got yourself a base mustang...Go to Hawaii and tons of people rent Mustang convertibles...Most of these renters never need the performance, many would welcome better MPG...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,556 Posts
Not sure they're targeting the best demographic here...Are there actually people saying they want to buy a V8 powered mustang and want it quieter and better MPG? The one thing that could differentiate a hybrid mustang is if they make it AWD...

I think the best demo for this car would be the base convertible...Go to most any car rental place, request a convertible and you got yourself a base mustang...Go to Hawaii and tons of people rent Mustang convertibles...Most of these renters never need the performance, many would welcome better MPG...
A coworker of mine has the turbo 4, and it still has plenty of performance, enough to be scary on pothole and pedestrian ridden streets. If they make an AWD electric mustang, all they need to do is pipe exhaust noise through the speakers and most owners wouldn't know. But if they do that, they'd better have a setting to allow you to turn it off, permanently, unlike the 12A setting in the volt G1 that needs to be done each and every time.

Plus in Hawaii, isn't the speed limit something like 45 mph? There isn't far to go, and nobody is in any hurry to get there. hang loose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,468 Posts
A coworker of mine has the turbo 4, and it still has plenty of performance, enough to be scary on pothole and pedestrian ridden streets. If they make an AWD electric mustang, all they need to do is pipe exhaust noise through the speakers and most owners wouldn't know. But if they do that, they'd better have a setting to allow you to turn it off, permanently, unlike the 12A setting in the volt G1 that needs to be done each and every time.

Plus in Hawaii, isn't the speed limit something like 45 mph? There isn't far to go, and nobody is in any hurry to get there. hang loose.
Yup, been in an ecoboost, not saying it's a slouch, but many get it because it is $7000 cheaper than the V8 and does offer cheaper insurance and better MPG...

Seems to like giving the economy buyers a new economy option is the best move...Matching V8 power without any other benefit such as AWD just doesn't make sense...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,556 Posts
We've been there for a while now lol
And when that small group goes down to one, it's a dictatorship or monarchy, depending on whether they are hated or revered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,556 Posts
Yup, been in an ecoboost, not saying it's a slouch, but many get it because it is $7000 cheaper than the V8 and does offer cheaper insurance and better MPG...

Seems to like giving the economy buyers a new economy option is the best move...Matching V8 power without any other benefit such as AWD just doesn't make sense...
In the old days, when you bought a 5.0 vs. a 4 banger, you could tell the difference because of the body cladding, wheels, stickers and badging. I like the fact that the wimpy mustang doesn't look all that different from the decked out one. Sure the person with the V8 might not like it that he or she spent a fortune for the V8 and their friends go "yeah, my secretary bought one just like it." I think that's why Chevy went with the Camaro and has a separate and distinct vette which Ford seems to have run away from (thunderbird). So when is Mopar going to release an electric Hellcat? Better yet, bring back the Magnum wagon in Hellcat cladding, AWD, and electric motors, and it won't matter if it doesn't make a sound at all, as long as it comes close to ludicrous mode as a lower price.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
8,680 Posts
I think that's why Chevy went with the Camaro and has a separate and distinct vette which Ford seems to have run away from (thunderbird). So when is Mopar going to release an electric Hellcat? Better yet, bring back the Magnum wagon in Hellcat cladding, AWD, and electric motors, and it won't matter if it doesn't make a sound at all, as long as it comes close to ludicrous mode as a lower price.
Right now, GM's the only one of the big three with the parts bin to do this kind of thing easily - Voltec up front attached to a DI turbo engine and a Bolt or Spark EDU at the rear. 350 electric horsepower plus the engine (2 liter DI Turbo, ~250 hp?) if the battery pack is up to the job, and a wide range of power and energy focused cells to choose from among the various projects.

Mopar has a decent EDU in the new Pacifica Hybrid, but no ~150-200 HP all electric EDU to put on the rear axle - the only pure electric EDU they have anywhere in FCA's stable right now is the 111 hp one from the 500e AFAIK. Combined with the Pacifica front, that can get them to ~250 electric HP in AWD form, which added to one of the ubiquitous 200-250hp two liter DI turbo engines could give decent performance as a plug in hybrid but would have a very heavy FWD bias.

Ford doesn't even have that - I think the only PHEV EDU they have is the Fusion/C-Max one, good for about 70 electric horsepower in the Energi versions (not sure if that's a battery limit or a EDU limit, though.) They do have a ~140 hp electric only EDU from the focus electric...

Of course, that's only what's in the parts bin for quick, inexpensive development. I'm sure any of them could introduce such a car if they are ready to spend several years and a bunch of dollars developing the new parts for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,464 Posts
I wonder if Mark Fields is doing all this talking because he recognizes just how far behind Ford has become? They are going to need to invest billions of dollars in order to catch up, and even then, the damage might already be done.
  • A small screw up or set back when you are first to market is nothing.
  • A small screw up or set back when you are already established in the market is nothing.
  • A small screw up or set back when you are trying to catch up to the market can end you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,431 Posts
Ford doesn't even have that - I think the only PHEV EDU they have is the Fusion/C-Max one, good for about 70 electric horsepower in the Energi versions (not sure if that's a battery limit or a EDU limit, though.) They do have a ~140 hp electric only EDU from the focus electric...
The Ford HF35 EDU was upgraded from the 2013 model to handle 118 HP and allow EV speeds up to 85 MPH. See my previous post here or visit the Ford website for exact ratings. It is identical for Hybrid and Energi models, and for the Lincoln MKZ Hybrid. I have done test drives of the Fusion Hybrid and it does feel powerful.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
8,680 Posts
The Ford HF35 EDU was upgraded from the 2013 model to handle 118 HP and allow EV speeds up to 85 MPH. See my previous post here or visit the Ford website for exact ratings. It is identical for Hybrid and Energi models, and for the Lincoln MKZ Hybrid. I have done test drives of the Fusion Hybrid and it does feel powerful.
Better. Maybe even enough if they can come up with a 2-300 HP electric EDU for the rear axle (Assuming they use the HF35 in front with a transverse turbo 4 and a separate RWD EDU like the Highlander Hybrid, RLX Sport Hybrid, and Outlander PHEV (and similar to Tesla's D models.)

Depending on what Honda's patents cover, doing something close to the RLX might actually be great for the Mustang market, if they use bigger motors - maybe two of the FFE EDUs minus the differential driving separate halfshafts? that gets them in the power neighborhood, and gives them torque vectoring and ultimate traction control...

Of course, that approach needs either a fairly large battery or one capable of extreme C rates. It's a great solution for a 40 mile PHEV, maybe not so much for a no plug hybrid.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,146 Posts
I just don't see a AWD Mustang coming out anytime soon. I'd be happy if the F150 Hybrid will be 4WD/AWD and that might be my next large vehicle if it is. Disappointed that the new F150 won't be plug-in for even a limited battery only range. Market for hybrids/BEV isn't matured enough to kill a big auto manufacturer that doesn't have a huge parts bin or line up of hybrid/BEV vehicle. At least not yet. Right now there is no sub-super-luxury AWD PHEV out there, unless I am missing something?

Still say it can't be that hard for GM to put the Voltec in a Terrain/Equinox or even Trax and make it AWD. Beef it up and put it in a Colorado/Canyon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,556 Posts
Right now, GM's the only one of the big three with the parts bin to do this kind of thing easily - Voltec up front attached to a DI turbo engine and a Bolt or Spark EDU at the rear. 350 electric horsepower plus the engine (2 liter DI Turbo, ~250 hp?) if the battery pack is up to the job, and a wide range of power and energy focused cells to choose from among the various projects.

Mopar has a decent EDU in the new Pacifica Hybrid, but no ~150-200 HP all electric EDU to put on the rear axle - the only pure electric EDU they have anywhere in FCA's stable right now is the 111 hp one from the 500e AFAIK. Combined with the Pacifica front, that can get them to ~250 electric HP in AWD form, which added to one of the ubiquitous 200-250hp two liter DI turbo engines could give decent performance as a plug in hybrid but would have a very heavy FWD bias.

Ford doesn't even have that - I think the only PHEV EDU they have is the Fusion/C-Max one, good for about 70 electric horsepower in the Energi versions (not sure if that's a battery limit or a EDU limit, though.) They do have a ~140 hp electric only EDU from the focus electric...

Of course, that's only what's in the parts bin for quick, inexpensive development. I'm sure any of them could introduce such a car if they are ready to spend several years and a bunch of dollars developing the new parts for it.
Toyota got parts from tesla for the RAV4 EV. There's nothing stopping Mopar or Ford from doing the same. The Ford GT would be a great platform for this. Similarly, Mopar should bring back the superbird, slant nose, big wing, and all. Or they could revive the barracuda name and put it onto an ev.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top