[Hobie]

2017 Volt LT base. 36 months 12k miles

$249/mo. $0 drive off costs, and the $1500 from CA and HOV stickers.

I know there will be lots of questions about the worksheet details which I don't have on this offer. I have received offers from 6 different dealers in the area and this is by FAR the lowest total cost over the lease period.

I'm ready to sign. Any reason I should try to negotiate further?

 

[llninja]

Are you absolutely certain you can stay within the mileage limits? Jobs change, situations change, and the volt is so silky smooth you find excuses to get into the car and drive.

Are you absolutely certain you want an LT? When I was first shopping for my g1, I wanted a base model to save money but found a loaded premium for only $1500 more. Now I'm glad I did because the backup camera, leather, Bose, polished wheels, etc. are really nice (I don't use the nav at all, though, as Siri works just as well, despite all the initial complaints in the news)

Are you absolutely certain you want to lease? Sure you get into a car you might not be able to afford to buy now rather than waiting until you have the cash saved, but that's how they hook you into a lifetime of car payments. Everybody's doing it, and that's why everybody's broke. Resist the urge to be normal, save and buy what you have the cash for. It's not permanent, you can always upgrade in car when you've got more money. Warren Buffet, one of the richest guys in the world doesn't lease cars because the math doesn't work in your favor, it works for the dealerships (to move cars) and finance companies (to make them money).

 

[bro1999]

Nice lease deal! Especially if you don't qualify for extra incentives (farm bureau, lease loyalty, etc)

 

[csriram45]

Where is this in CA? Can you share details? Seems like a decent deal with zero down. Does it include tax?

 

[the missing link]

Just did this deal last week in SoCal. PM me for dealer info.

2017 Volt LT with cloth.

Drive off $1080.00
Monthly incl tax $212.00

$34,095 MSRP
- $4,500 Dealer discount
+ $595 acquisition fee
= $30,190 Cap Cost
- $7,360 Incentives
= $22,830 Net cap cost

$16,365.60 = 48% Residual (15,000 miles / year)

36 month term

0.00040 money factor

Incentives are:
$4,610 lease cash
$2,250 lease cash
$500 conquest cash

 

[Hobie]

Are you absolutely certain you can stay within the mileage limits? Jobs change, situations change, and the volt is so silky smooth you find excuses to get into the car and drive.

Are you absolutely certain you want an LT? When I was first shopping for my g1, I wanted a base model to save money but found a loaded premium for only $1500 more. Now I'm glad I did because the backup camera, leather, Bose, polished wheels, etc. are really nice (I don't use the nav at all, though, as Siri works just as well, despite all the initial complaints in the news)

Are you absolutely certain you want to lease? Sure you get into a car you might not be able to afford to buy now rather than waiting until you have the cash saved, but that's how they hook you into a lifetime of car payments. Everybody's doing it, and that's why everybody's broke. Resist the urge to be normal, save and buy what you have the cash for. It's not permanent, you can always upgrade in car when you've got more money. Warren Buffet, one of the richest guys in the world doesn't lease cars because the math doesn't work in your favor, it works for the dealerships (to move cars) and finance companies (to make them money).

I've never leased a car in my life and have always kept my cars a long time, so buying made sense. That being said, and I don't want to start an argument here, personally I would never buy an electric car at this point in the technology curve. Also, a car is a depreciating asset. I've owned my current Lexus for 10 years. If I calculate the cost of ownership over the 10 years net the "residual value" I'll get selling it, it's not much different than a lease in terms of annual cost. (Now my 21 year old 4runner is a different story!)

 

[Hobie]

Where is this in CA? Can you share details? Seems like a decent deal with zero down. Does it include tax?

SF Bay area. This is a San Jose dealer. It does include tax. I'll share details when he sends them today. I'm mostly comparing it to the 5 other offers I've received from other dealers. I've been less concerned about how they arrived at the number and more focused on what's the number. None of the other dealers I've gone back to have been willing to even match this deal, which tells me something.

 

[the missing link]

As a general way of comparing leases, I use a ratio of total cash outlay during the lease term divided by the total miles allowed.

In my case, the number is $0.189/mile

Drive off = $1080
+
$212.00 x 35 months = $7,420
+
Total Cash Outlay = $8500
/
45,000 miles
= $0.189

I exclude the $1500 CA rebate in the above calculation because some lessees may or may not qualify.

The ratio allows a quick and easy way to assess the lease deal.

Hope this helps.

 

[Hobie]

Just did this deal last week in SoCal. PM me for dealer info.

2017 Volt LT with cloth.

Drive off $1080.00
Monthly incl tax $212.00

$34,095 MSRP
- $4,500 Dealer discount
+ $595 acquisition fee
= $30,190 Cap Cost
- $7,360 Incentives
= $22,830 Net cap cost

$16,365.60 = 48% Residual (15,000 miles / year)

36 month term

0.00040 money factor

Incentives are:
$4,610 lease cash
$2,250 lease cash
$500 conquest cash

That seems like a good deal at 15k/yr. If you amortize the 1080 it's about the same cost as I'm getting but for 15k instead of 12k. Maybe I'll go back and ask for 15k at the same price. Probably won't drive that much but good to have the cushion.

 

[Hobie]

As a general way of comparing leases, I use a ratio of total cash outlay during the lease term divided by the total miles allowed.

In my case, the number is $0.189/mile

Drive off = $1080
+
$212.00 x 35 months = $7,420
+
Total Cash Outlay = $8500
/
45,000 miles
= $0.189

I exclude the $1500 CA rebate in the above calculation because some lessees may or may not qualify.

The ratio allows a quick and easy way to assess the lease deal.

Hope this helps.

I like that. Great metric. BTW, who DOESN'T qualify for the $1500 rebate? I was counting on it.

 

[the missing link]

Income cap

https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/income-eligibility

 

[csriram45]

For SF Bay Area, can you send me details? Thx

 

[Delta]

The only problem with this calculation is if you don't use all of the miles. I've averaged 9500 miles per year over 12 years so 45,000 miles for 35 mo's would be way too many in my case. If you think 15K per year is correct and you end up using 16K then you have penalties. If you use 12K per year (average) then you overpay by $1701 over the term of your lease. It's a good way of comparing lease terms but only if you have a VERY good handle on your mileage requirements.

As a general way of comparing leases, I use a ratio of total cash outlay during the lease term divided by the total miles allowed.

In my case, the number is $0.189/mile

Drive off = $1080
+
$212.00 x 35 months = $7,420
+
Total Cash Outlay = $8500
/
45,000 miles
= $0.189

I exclude the $1500 CA rebate in the above calculation because some lessees may or may not qualify.

The ratio allows a quick and easy way to assess the lease deal.

Hope this helps.

 

[DonC]

Seems like a good deal. If you're happy with it then I can't see reason not to proceed.

Just did this deal last week in SoCal. PM me for dealer info.

I like this deal. The residual is a killer. Very reasonable.

As a general way of comparing leases, I use a ratio of total cash outlay during the lease term divided by the total miles allowed.

This is OK but, when looking during the lease period, allowed miles may not matter. If you only need 10K miles per year it hardly matters if you can get 12K miles for slightly more. When looking beyond he lease period, you need to consider the residual since that sets the initial mark of how much you'll have to pay if you want to keep the car.

 

[the missing link]

The only problem with this calculation is if you don't use all of the miles. I've averaged 9500 miles per year over 12 years so 45,000 miles for 35 mo's would be way too many in my case. If you think 15K per year is correct and you end up using 16K then you have penalties. If you use 12K per year (average) then you overpay by $1701 over the term of your lease. It's a good way of comparing lease terms but only if you have a VERY good handle on your mileage requirements.

I see your point. What metric do you recommend to assess lease deals when comparing offers before signing docs?

I've found my metric to be very helpful in comparing various offers from dealers before finalizing a deal.

In my 20+ years of leasing and buying cars, I've never found it meaningful to look at the deal after it's been done. The variable of actual miles driven is not known until lease expiration--not to mention prices, discounts, incentives, money factors, etc.

But I'm open to learning new approaches. Please share.

 

[Delta]

I've only done one lease in my lifetime so am not an expert on leasing.

First car - Pontiac Grand Am - financed (5 yrs) - just out of college so no money.
Second car - Ford Contour - leased (3 yrs)
Third car - Toyota Rav4 - cash purchase (6 years)
Fourth Car - Hyundai Santa Fe - cash purchase (12 years)
Fifth Car - Chevy Volt - cash purchase (current)

In my opinion, buy vs lease every 3 years is the wrong question. Why do you need a new car every 3 years? If you pay cash every 3 years then it's a luxury that you can obviously afford and more power to you. Cars are a lot more expensive than they were back in the 70's, last a lot longer, and are in general a lot more reliable. You're eating 50% of the value of a car in depreciation via leasing in 3 years and the dealers want you to do that repeatedly. If you keep a car at least 5 years, the depreciation rate slows down and you get some time to accumulate more cash for a car purchase. If you like swapping cars every 3 years, the ideal strategy would be to get a 2-year old vehicle and sell it 3 years later and repeat.

If I were to look at lease deals, I want the same information that you already gather - the total cost and the number of miles allowed. I'd just be focusing more on the cost side of the equation and comparing it with purchase cost. If I had to finance the deal for a purchase, I'd be looking more at used cars. The same should be true of a lease. If you can purchase outright then you can make the mileage and the term anything you want and what suits your own finances at the time. I'd argue that even with a Volt that doing a purchase and holding it just one more year would probably be a better financial decision than any lease.

With the Volt, there are some special considerations regarding the Federal tax credit and any state rebates. If you aren't eligible for the tax credit and can get it factored in via a lease then that might make a noticeable difference. If you have a business and can write off mileage then that's a bit different too.

 

[Hobie]

This is all reasonable analysis except, IMHO, with respect to new technologies such as electric cars. If I buy a traditional combustion engine car today I have a pretty good idea of what the depreciation curve will look like over time. I know my car will be worth less but it's highly unlikely that it will be obsolete. With a Volt, or any other electric car, 3 years from now the current technology could be completely obsolete, making the residual value prenegotiated into the lease today look pretty darn sweet. I have always bought my cars and kept them for at least 10 years or more. Personally I would never buy an electric car today.

I think the cost/mi is a great metric regardless of buy vs lease. Unless you're a collector you buy a car for the utility. It's a depreciating asset, so it costs you money whether you drive it or not, so if you drive a lot of miles you get a much lower cost per unit of utility. I have a 10yr old lexus with 103000 miles. Market value (aka residual) today is 9k-10k. We're in the neighborhood of $0.35/mi just for depreciation. You could argue that I get 10k back in my pocket but it's been out of my pocket for 10yrs. With a lease it never leaves me. The math changes if I had driven 200k miles in those 10 years of course.

 

[DonC]

This is all reasonable analysis except, IMHO, with respect to new technologies such as electric cars. If I buy a traditional combustion engine car today I have a pretty good idea of what the depreciation curve will look like over time. I know my car will be worth less but it's highly unlikely that it will be obsolete. With a Volt, or any other electric car, 3 years from now the current technology could be completely obsolete, making the residual value prenegotiated into the lease today look pretty darn sweet. I have always bought my cars and kept them for at least 10 years or more. Personally I would never buy an electric car today.

I rather like the current lease deals, and you're certainly free to spend your money whatever way you wish. If you think leasing is better then by all means lease. Lots of good reasons to do that. However, the rationale you've raised here makes little sense and is contrary to the facts. With respect to the idea that the tech will be obsolete, as a general matter car technology is moving so fast that all cars sold today will be obsolete in a few years. The electric part of my six year old Volt is still as useful as the day I got it. And the gas generator is as well. What is obsolete is all the missing tech such as adaptive cruise, blind spot warnings, forward collision alert, and the absence of Android Auto or Apple Car Play. But these major advances would be missing from all MY 2011 Chevys. Don't think this won't be the same in another six years. By then we should be seeing Super Cruise, cameras instead of rear view mirrors, heads up displays, mobile internet connections, and a host of other tech which we won't know how we lived without. Becoming obsolete is a problem for all cars, not just for electric cars.

The contrary to fact part is that we haven't seen a big hit, even if, like me, you had the worst possible timing. I paid full MSRP for my Volt, which had everything but the special wheels. But after credits and rebates it only cost me $35K. Given that a car can be expected to depreciate by 20% per year, my six year old Volt should be worth $9175. But when I look on Edmunds even the dealer trade in is a grand more than this. A private party sale is $3K more. And a dealer retail, which is the real comparison, would be $5K more. That's for the worst possible timing. I wanted it and was willing to pay full MSRP before the MSRP was substantially cut. Given that most people got a better deal than I did, most people will be in a better position. IOW the factual premise of an electric car becoming obsolete just isn't born out. There is of course an exception for the Nissan Leaf, but that's a special case because the battery pack was less than desirable.

 

[Delta]

I don't see the things changing that much for vehicles like the Volt except that range will incrementally go up. If you put too much battery in though then you have charge duration concerns. The biggest improvements ironically will probably come from the ICE. I suspect that they'll get the MPG up from 42 to 50+.

Where you really have to worry about new technology is in pure EV technology like the Bolt. A change of EV mileage range from 53 to 75 doesn't make the Volt obsolete but the same percentage of improvement of battery technology on the Bolt makes a lot of difference. Or maybe the range stays the same but the charging time diminished by half. We've got the Volt Gen1 to look at for depreciation rates and once you take off the subsidies/rebates, it looks pretty much like the depreciation of most other cars. I'm more interested in how long the engines will last. The ICE will get a lot less use than in a non-plugin vehicle. The electrical motors are simpler than an ICE so how long will the engines themselves go without mechanical issues? If you replace the battery with a refurbished once it goes bad, are you good for trouble free operation for a long time? If so, maybe the plug-in hybrids have a longer life expectancy than a normal ICE.

There hasn't been radical changes in battery technology in some time. Computers, phones, and tablets have gotten most of their gains from improvements in efficiency of the CPU processors. There's been lots of hype on various battery technologies but nothing that has actually made it to production. When I see a new Samsung phone with double the battery capacity that doesn't explode, I'll believe that the same could be coming to EV's. You know Tesla will be the first to use whatever is developed so watch there for the changes.

This is all reasonable analysis except, IMHO, with respect to new technologies such as electric cars. If I buy a traditional combustion engine car today I have a pretty good idea of what the depreciation curve will look like over time. I know my car will be worth less but it's highly unlikely that it will be obsolete. With a Volt, or any other electric car, 3 years from now the current technology could be completely obsolete, making the residual value prenegotiated into the lease today look pretty darn sweet. I have always bought my cars and kept them for at least 10 years or more. Personally I would never buy an electric car today.

 

[yesvolt]

We leased 2 Volts from Penske Chevrolet in SoCal

Here is the deal we got on Base LT models

1) Qualifying for existing lease rebate ($500)
0 drive off
229/ month for 35 months (including tax)
12k miles/ year

2) Without the rebate
0 drive off
245/ month for 35 months (including tax)
12k miles / year

Worked with Mark Wagner