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You are fast-charging when another BEV arrives and needs to charge. You:

  • End your charge after 30 mins

    Votes: 5 9.1%
  • Charge as long as you need to reach your next destination

    Votes: 50 90.9%

  • Total voters
    55
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Discussion Starter #1
I got in a discussion with someone in the Bolt EV Owners Group on Facebook, and he and I seem to disagree about proper etiquette when using the public fast charging infrastructure. Essentially, the disagreement is this:

His opinion: EV drivers should limit themselves to only 30 minutes of fast charging if another EV owner arrives at the charger and would like to charge.

My opinion: EV drivers should be able to use the charger for as long as they need to gain the range necessary to drive to their next destination. Essentially, first come, first served, and you use it as long as you need.

Personally, I think his perspective is based in a longtime ownership of short-range BEVs that nearly charge to full in a single 30 minute session. But the paradigm has shifted. Bigger battery cars are available, and it doesn't matter that you need 20 minutes of charging to get to your destination 40 miles from here. If someone else was there first and needs an hour of charging to get to their destination 160 miles from here, you should have to wait your turn. Maybe my opinion is off base, but I'd like to hear what the community here thinks.
 

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I share your opinion. Charge to what you need to reach the next charger or your destination comfortably. It makes no sense to hand over the plug and then resume afterwards, unless you have nothing but time.
If you are camping at a free charger just to top off, then by all means give it to the person who needs it to continue their trip, otherwise if you are paying for it or must have it to complete your trip finish your charge.
As a final note, if I already had what I needed to make the next leg and it wouldn't set me back later, then I would give up the spot. This all only applies if there are no 'rules' posted for use by the station owner.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
As a final note, if I already had what I needed to make the next leg and it wouldn't set me back later, then I would give up the spot.
For sure. I did the very same thing on one of my longer trips in the Bolt EV (gave up my spot to a Leaf driver who had his two kids with him). Sadly, the karma might have worked in the wrong direction because I believe I barely made it to the next stop with a very low state of charge.
 

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I see both sides of the argument. On one hand, first come first serve is pretty standard practice and socially accepted as being the norm. On the other hand, I look at it similar to being in a grocery store line where the guy in front of you has a full cart, and you have only a couple items and no other lanes are open. It's polite to let you go ahead but not necessary. The difference here being that with DCFC usually having a connection fee just to connect (I realize there are plans that waive that fee) so it makes more sense for one to complete their needed charge since they paid the fee to start and it's unfair to pay a second time. I guess what I'm trying to get at is there may be times when etiquette isn't always cut and dry.
 

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That makes no sense to limit your charging time unless you have reached a sufficient SOC to make it to your next destination. You charge until you reach that point and then leave. The other driver unfortunately must wait for the charger to become available.

That makes sense given the limited EV charging infrastructure in place. I would have no problem waiting my turn. But heaven have mercy on the BEV owner that after his car has finished charging is not present to move it.
 

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As long as you are charging, it is not rude to stay. Using it as a parking stall is rude, charging is not.
Do you think I'm going to stop filling the 75 gallon tank of a motorhome because you only need 5 gallons of diesel for your Mercedes? Not a chance.
 

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I'll charge as long as I need to to get to my destination. If 30 minutes is enough, great. If I need another 30? I'm charging another 30. Sorry whoever is waiting for the plug.
 

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I would have no problem waiting my turn. But heaven have mercy on the BEV owner that after his car has finished charging is not present to move it.
I think that will be a bigger problem. I unplugged plenty of cars that where fully charged but no driver to be found.
 

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... I unplugged plenty of cars that where fully charged but no driver to be found.
But a DCFC locks the plug in the charge port on the car while charging.
Does the lock release at 100% SOC? I use them all the time and I don't know the answer to this question.
I use the Chargepoint card to stop the charge as I never stick around for 100%

There is the big red 'Emergency Stop' button...
 

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Then perhaps EV chargers in busy locations need to clearly indicate maximum charging time and refuse to charge you again for a set time once you use it? I suspect we will have to go this route because the entitlement culture for free chargers is getting rabid. For pay chargers then its up to the vendor how long you can charge and for how much. Plus throw in penalties for sitting on charger long after charged.
 

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Another angle that needs to be brought up is how you pay for it...Although extremely rare, DCFC can be free, also rare is some sort reimbursement if at a business (like parking validation), some have membership plans which include discounted and/or fixed rates and what seems to be somewhat common is that while some offer a discount membership, if you don't sign up or a membership isn't accepted there's a relatively large "connection fee" often over $5...Overall point being a person could have different opinions for a "free for all" charging station vs a relatively high $9.95 connection fee charging station...
 

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....Plus throw in penalties for sitting on charger long after charged.
Easy to say... difficult to accomplish....

Example: The EV owner's charge is done at 12noon... he unplugs from the EVSE at that time... but he squats at the spot for another three hours.
How do you charge him for that?

More importantly... how do you prevent that from happening in the first place?



Some time ago, we went to our local Whole Foods looking for some specialty item for one of the kids.
They had three free to use L2 charging stations. One had a soccer mom SUV parked in front of it, the other had a beater Nissan park in it's stall, the third EVSE had a Prius.. not a plug-in Prius... a regular Prius parked in it's stall.
So, in theory they had three available L2 stations ready for use... but no way to actually use one!

How do you stop that?
 

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It isn't easy to solve, but I have posted several suggestions here for public charge stations:

1. Pay to charge - if the second EV driver arrives whilr the first EV is getting its charge, the second can only wait until the first EV is done, or leave to either returnlater or find another station. Only the first EV can decide to cancel the charge event if they wish to.

2. Place stations far away from close parking spaces - if the station is at the entrances of the parking space, any other vehicle would want to park there. But if the station was far, only the EV owner will not be bothered to walk more while the EV is getting a charge.

As for private business charge stations, the owner can set up the rules while offering a free charge, even putting up a warning sign that any non-electric vehicles will be towed away and the driver will pay a fine and a tow bill. Having an actual tow truck visibly parked will scare off the non-EV owners immediately. I also recommend that the charging station remain passive and under remote control and observation by the owner, such that when an EV arrives, the driver will ask the owner to activate the station, and get the free charge while using the business services. The video survellance warning can prevent parking or sabotage from non-EV owners. Leaving the station under remote control also prevents free-loaders who want to charger when the business is closed.
 

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.... locations need to clearly indicate maximum charging time and refuse to charge you again for a set time once you use it? .....
Really?
You, sir, are clearly not a BEV owner and have not thought this out.

Easy to say... difficult to accomplish....

Example: ...... he unplugs from the EVSE at that time... but he squats at the spot for another three hours.
How do you charge him for that?

More importantly... how do you prevent that from happening in the first place?...
I've seen this locally. A Tesla that probably did not charge at all. Just likes the parking spot.

But in his defense the EV spots are labeled on the asphalt in big letters "EV PARKING ONLY" ,,, should be "EV CHARGING ONLY".

I'm trying to get the city to change this and also come up with ICE'd towing laws. (Rots o Ruck to me...)
What else can you do? Nastygrams under the wiper blades only go so far.
 

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It isn't easy to solve, ...
>As for private business charge stations, the owner can set up the rules while offering a free charge, even putting up a warning sign that any non-electric vehicles will be towed away and the driver will pay a fine and a tow bill. ..
>>... free-loaders who want to charger when the business is closed.
>A 'private business' can't levy a fine, this has to be a city or state ordinance. They can hire a tow truck to remove the car from the property, but what kind of signage would be required to warn everyone that comes on to the property for this to be legal?

>> Visit KC for a good model ! We're all 'free-loaders' :D!! And the network chargers have to be accessible to the public, at any time!
 

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Keep in mind, the businesses that offer free charging are trying to entice customers to visit, not piss them off by towing away their vehicles!

IMHO... the only viable solution for EVSE blocking/squatting is as mentioned earlier... it to locate the EVSE stalls way out in left field (where possible) and make the location less desirable to lazy slackers who only think of themselves. Unfortunately, not all parking lots are huge, and it could cost considerably more to place the EVSE away from existing infrastructure... especially if it involves trenching up existing asphalt, etc..
 

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There are so many combinations and permutations of needs and capabilities that it's hard to give a general answer. I'm tempted to simply suggest leaving your cell phone number on your dash along with a plea to phone if you have an urgent need to charge so that the two parties can negotiate an equitable solution. Probably naive, I know, but that's the way I wish the world would work.
 

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Easy to say... difficult to accomplish....

Example: The EV owner's charge is done at 12noon... he unplugs from the EVSE at that time... but he squats at the spot for another three hours.
How do you charge him for that?

More importantly... how do you prevent that from happening in the first place?



Some time ago, we went to our local Whole Foods looking for some specialty item for one of the kids.
They had three free to use L2 charging stations. One had a soccer mom SUV parked in front of it, the other had a beater Nissan park in it's stall, the third EVSE had a Prius.. not a plug-in Prius... a regular Prius parked in it's stall.
So, in theory they had three available L2 stations ready for use... but no way to actually use one!

How do you stop that?
You install the chargers in the least desirable parking spots. Put them at the back of the lot. Harris Teeter did that near me, almost never got ICE'd. Mosaic did not. Very frequently ICE'd.
 

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If 30 minutes of charge isn't enough to get you somewhere, then the charger isn't useful to that vehicle. I don't think bias based on battery capacity is reasonable.
 
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