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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have been driving my 2017 Volt Premier as my daily driver since the start of July 2016, never experienced any driver warnings or error messages until this week. I had not needed to bring my Volt to the dealer for any service issues since purchasing the car.

On Monday A.M. I remote started the Volt as I do every morning to preheat the vehicle. I then entered and proceeded to start the vehicle. The driver information console displayed the message "Service Charging System". The symbol for the 12 volt battery appeared in red, also the engine/generator symbol appeared. I tried shutting off and restarting the Volt but the error message persisted. I tried plugging in the charging connector ( Level II , Clipper Creek LCS-20 EVSE ) but the message did not clear and the charging indicator glowed solid orange instead of solid green/flashing green. The EVSE did not display any error message, only the power indicator light was illuminated since charging was not being initiated. I tried plugging in the Level I EVSE that came with the vehicle but saw no change.

I contacted Ourisman's Rockmont Chevrolet dealer where I had purchased my Volt in July, the Service Manager agreed I should bring in the car. The distance to the dealer was about 10 miles, the battery showed a full charge and 48 estimated mile range (this has been normal for the current temperature/weather conditions for several weeks.) The Volt drove normally in EV mode while continuing to display the warning message. I did not need to start/use the gas engine. I dropped off the vehicle and to my surprise they put me in a new 2017 Volt LT as a loaner vehicle.

The Service Manager called me later that day to say that the Volt had a bad 15 amp fuse in the High Voltage Battery Disconnect Relay Assembly (Part No. 24278473) They had to order the replacement part from GM.

On Tuesday they replaced the 15 amp fuse per service bulletin PIC6200 but then the vehicle generated a number of diagnostic codes: (P0D09, P0D26, P1F59, P1F5A.) The Volt technician consulted with the GM Volt engineers and determined that the vehicle needed a new High Voltage Battery Disconnect Relay Assembly (Part No. 24282514). The part was ordered and was expected to take 1-2 days to arrive.

Replacing the High Voltage Battery Disconnect Relay Assembly required removing the High Voltage battery from the vehicle (I would have liked to seen how that was done.) This repair also required draining the coolant from the High Voltage Battery. The repair receipt shows that Part No. 12378390 Coolant 8.8 was also installed in the vehicle.

The repair was completed on Thursday A.M. and I was able to pick up the car on what turned out to be the coldest day this December. While my Volt was being serviced the dealer also completed the warranty repair for recall 16055,Reduced Power Propulsion - Hybrid Powertrain Control Module 2 Re-progamming with SPS. Either re-programming of the vehicle or the dealer Volt technician had changed the settings on my Volt for Engine Heat Assist and for Engine Heat Assist while plugged in. The outside temperature was approx. 22 degrees F when I started my Volt, the engine started right away. I quickly checked all of the other settings and turned off Engine Heat Assist while plugged in as I preheat my Volt while it is parked inside my garage. I also disabled Engine Heat Assist as I frequently drive short errands on the weekend and do not want the gas engine starting for short trips where preheating the vehicle and then using the seat heaters and steering wheel heater is usually adequate along with Economy mode electric heating.

I was very satisfied with the level of service I received from Ourisman's Rockmont Chevrolet for my 2017 Volt with this warranty repair and I will be letting GM know when I complete the customer satisfaction survey.

I got to drive the loaner 2017 Volt LT for 4 days and 150 miles including extended range mode. The Volt LT drove very much like my Volt Premier. Once I connected my phone using Car Play I could use my phone's navigation app and play my own music. I thought the audio system sounded good considering it was the basic audio system. The two driver confidence / safety features that I definitely missed not having in the LT were the Blind Spot Warning / Cross Traffic Alert and Adaptive Cruise Control.
 

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Unfortuantely GM has indicated they has received a bad batch of those BUSS type fuses from a supplier and they ended up going into production during 2016-17.

We have seen numerous cases being reported here.

GM has issued a bulletin on the issue and there's more information in a pinned thread in this Gen2 section

But glad to hear the service you received was satisfactory. Still frustrating though I'm sure.

Hopefully you will be problem-free now so you can continue to enjoy the amazing car the Volt really is!

Welcome to gm-volt.com

WopOnTour
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I believe that in this case the blown fuse was a symptom, not the problem. Fuses don't usually blow unless there is an underlying reason. The root cause turned out to be a bad High Voltage Battery Disconnect Relay Assembly.
 

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I believe that in this case the blown fuse was a symptom, not the problem. Fuses don't usually blow unless there is an underlying reason. The root cause turned out to be a bad High Voltage Battery Disconnect Relay Assembly.
Good to see that the dealership resolved everything for you. Just in time for the holidays too!
 

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I'm so jealous that you got another Volt as a loaner! When I had mine in for a 2.5 week battery replacement, they gave me a '15 Malibu, which wasn't horrible, but it only got 23 MPG... :(
 

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I believe that in this case the blown fuse was a symptom, not the problem. Fuses don't usually blow unless there is an underlying reason. The root cause turned out to be a bad High Voltage Battery Disconnect Relay Assembly.
Normally that would be the case, however according to GM the "defective" fuses they have received from their supplier had an internal issue that results in an opening of the element due to a mechanical condition (vibration).
I've seen photos of them cut open afterwards and they aren't really "blown" at all

GM has been replacing the BDU in some instances (depending on FF data) as a precautionary measure in case the contactor went open while passing current, which will often cause arc damage.

Again, have seen a number of these

WOT
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you for your detailed explanation. If it had to happen I am just glad that the problem occurred while I was at home and the dealer's service department was nearby.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I rented a 2016 Malibu recently, while on vacation, and the rental vehicle had a 1.5L engine with Start/Stop fuel saving technology. I thought I would hate the Start/Stop feature and even spent time trying to find ways defeat it (the engine does not shut off if you shift into neutral or Low while at a traffic signal) but in the end I decided the Stop/Start feature worked well. Also, if you start to creep ahead at a traffic signal, even once, the 2016 Malibu does not continue to shut off the engine.

When I purchased my 2017 Volt my second choice was the 2016 Malibu Hybrid with Voltec drive system but the dealer did not have a Malibu hybrid in stock so I could not test drive it and I went with the Volt. If I was regularly driving beyond EV range or if I carried passengers in the car the Malibu would have been a good/better choice for my personal transportation.
 

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I rented a 2016 Malibu recently, while on vacation, and the rental vehicle had a 1.5L engine with Start/Stop fuel saving technology. I thought I would hate the Start/Stop feature and even spent time trying to find ways defeat it (the engine does not shut off if you shift into neutral or Low while at a traffic signal) but in the end I decided the Stop/Start feature worked well. Also, if you start to creep ahead at a traffic signal, even once, the 2016 Malibu does not continue to shut off the engine.

When I purchased my 2017 Volt my second choice was the 2016 Malibu Hybrid with Voltec drive system but the dealer did not have a Malibu hybrid in stock so I could not test drive it and I went with the Volt. If I was regularly driving beyond EV range or if I carried passengers in the car the Malibu would have been a good/better choice for my personal transportation.
The Malibu I got had Start/Stop but it only engaged about 10% of the time I had the car (14 days). I'm not sure if it was because of the weather or if there was something wrong with the car (faulty rear battery, perhaps?), but it was kinda strange.
 

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Unfortuantely GM has indicated they has received a bad batch of those BUSS type fuses from a supplier and they ended up going into production during 2016-17.

We have seen numerous cases being reported here.

GM has issued a bulletin on the issue and there's more information in a pinned thread in this Gen2 section

WopOnTour
Thanks for the info.

If GM knows they received a bad batch from a particular vendor, why haven't they traced these fuses to the cars that have them and issued a recall, or stopped selling them until fixed, instead of waiting for customers to have these failures?

Maybe I am wrong but I'd think they must be able to track what parts, or shipment of parts, went into which cars.

Thanks,
Rick
 

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Thanks for the info.

If GM knows they received a bad batch from a particular vendor, why haven't they traced these fuses to the cars that have them and issued a recall, or stopped selling them until fixed, instead of waiting for customers to have these failures?

Maybe I am wrong but I'd think they must be able to track what parts, or shipment of parts, went into which cars.

Thanks,
Rick
Unless components are serialized it's nearly impossible to track bad batch hardware. In this case the components were consumed at the Harness construction level with what are known as Bin items, these items have minimal traceability and are often co-mingled with other batches at the beginning and end of stocking level keep fill levels.

The harness itself is tracked with Bar code identification for the purpose for accounting for its consumption into the vehicle at it next higher level of assembly.

Since this isn't a Safety issue with a Recall being issued, the only thing they do is issue a TSB acknowledging the issue and what action to take to fix it IF or when a customer should show up at a dealer with the fault problem. The onus is on the customer to keep up with what TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins) effect there vehicle. If it's a safety Recall campaign, then the owners of possibly effected vehicles will get a letter in the mail. Letters to Owners are Optional when it comes to TSB's. GM determines what level of importance a TSB has. TSB's in general are for dealers and service Mechanics.




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Thanks for the clarity. I stand (mostly... <evil grin>) corrected....

Unless components are serialized it's nearly impossible to track bad batch hardware. In this case the components were consumed at the Harness construction level with what are known as Bin items, these items have minimal traceability and are often co-mingled with other batches at the beginning and end of stocking level keep fill levels.

The harness itself is tracked with Bar code identification for the purpose for accounting for its consumption into the vehicle at it next higher level of assembly.

Since this isn't a Safety issue with a Recall being issued,
I think those who got the Shift to Park message and power loss while they were driving would differ. Unless I am again mistaken and none of the loss of power incidents were due to this.


...the only thing they do is issue a TSB acknowledging the issue and what action to take to fix it IF or when a customer should show up at a dealer with the fault problem. The onus is on the customer to keep up with what TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins) effect there vehicle.
IMHO that is an unreasonable expectation to put on a customer. That is essentially blaming the potential victim for not being aware of TSBs by continually browsing this board or some other online resource.

The info here and the knowledgeable folks on it are a great resource. Even so, keeping track of what TSB covers what issue is not always and easy exercise.

Is there a TSB for this Fuse issue? If so, I've missed it or have it confused with another. Maybe I've already had it done. Is there not some test that a Tech can perform to check the integrity of this component?


If it's a safety Recall campaign, then the owners of possibly effected vehicles will get a letter in the mail. Letters to Owners are Optional when it comes to TSB's. GM determines what level of importance a TSB has. TSB's in general are for dealers and service Mechanics.


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Not trying to flame GM or anyone on this board. As I said before, I believe car companies (any company really) need to be held accountable. I don't think any of us like the feeling of wondering if we have one of these bad fuses. I'd like some reassurance that GM can and is being PROactive instead of REactive.

Again, if I've missed the TSB thread for this fuse issue I apologize and would appreciate being pointed to it (I have looked).

Thanks,
Rick
 

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DMC5180 said:
The onus is on the customer to keep up with what TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins) effect there vehicle.
And would you happen to have a link to the official site where these can be tracked?
 

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I don't know if you can do it through GM. I have a Subscription for Technical service documentation through www.alldatadiy.com

I have subscriptions for all my vehicles. This is not the same thing as vehicle registry notification service
That would let you know if a TSB was issued for your vehicle. Once you have a subscription for your vehicle, You have to click on View All TSB link within the subscription to see what's been published to date.


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Is there a TSB for this Fuse issue? If so, I've missed it or have it confused with another. Maybe I've already had it done. Is there not some test that a Tech can perform to check the integrity of this component? <SNIP>Again, if I've missed the TSB thread for this fuse issue I apologize and would appreciate being pointed to it (I have looked).

Thanks,
Rick
Rick there has been an ongoing thread for this fuse issue for a while now. Yes, there is a bulletin on it. (a couple actually)

The thread is actually "pinned" here in this forum under the most prevalent and observed initial condition a "Service Charging System" warning (search PIC6182 to find the threads)

In this section I have "stickied" ALL significant Gen2 bulletins (where someone here on gm-volt.com has actually encountered the issue) as well as ALL known campaigns (aka recalls)

EDIT: here's the link to the full thread
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread...D09-P1EBD-PIC6200-PIC6182/page2&highlight=BDU

But specifically THIS POST http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread...9-P1EBD-PIC6200-PIC6182&p=3363866#post3363866

The rare condition is a "Service Charging System" message and a red BATT light on.
But of course IF the car continues to be driven the 12V battery eventually runs down to the point it can no longer sustain the 12V rail and must shut down (and yes, the "Shift to Park" message does appear eventually, but that is what it does for ANY loss of propulsion condition) and with a dead 12V battery you're essentially going nowhere.

But I disagree with DMC5180 that it should be the owners responsibility to keep track of outstanding TSBs for their car. That IMO is a waste of time and energy as it's not as if you can show up at a dealer with no condition apparent and ask them to act on a bulletin anyways- they won't simply do it.

Like DMC5180 says bulletins are for dealers and their technicians to assist them in certain common repairs, such that they are not having to go through all the "diagnostic preamble" that would have occurred at least a few times (in dealerships across NA) before the TSB was created. It saves on diagnostic time (and potentially downtime) and creates an internal incentive to fire up things like parts supply related to the bulletin, and corrective measures on the assembly line.

Yes, sure it IS nice to KNOW of a bulletin's existence once you DO have something go wrong as its somewhat empowering and provides you with SOME level of ammunition when you take the car in.

But I certainly don't think ANYONE should be fretting and worrying about the mere presence of bulletins for ANY condition.

I have been doing this and dealing with bulletins for a very long time (since 1980) and I can tell you that t is not unusual to see literally dozens, even hundreds of TSBs produced for any single YMM nameplate. To GM they are more about documenting and creating a searchable database for "what went wrong" in the event it might be helpful to assist another dealer that encounters the same thing. That's it. For the average owner they are for the most part -TMI ;)

To an owner these should be "out of sight and out of mind" as the chances of encountering the same failure are very slim. The problem with forums such as these, is it creates an unrealistic focus on 3, 10, 50 failures, which in the course of any given model is actually miniscule numbers in the "per 1000 cars produced".

IF any condition starts to become more apparent than normal, THEN that is when you see the "campaigns" created (GMs official term, what some will refer to as a recall) where GM feels it's in the best interest of customer satisfaction and product reputation to address and deliver a repair to all cars potentially involved.

In the case of these BUSS fuses again what DMC5180 has stated is essentially correct. There is no way to know how many cars might have received these defective fuses, however good or bad the issue has a tendency to occur within the first fore 1000 miles and so far really HAS NOT been a statistically significant number of cars.

Until it is I think we will continue to see a bit of a "wait and see" approach especially given the complexity of the fuse replacement (the battery must be completely removed from the car and opened up to do so) where that stance not really as much about removing all possibility of this ever having as much as trying to maintain the battery housing's "as factory" integrity, and wasting time and $$ for something that so far has been statistically insignificant. (albeit trying for those few owners that have encountered it)

If/when it no longer is, I am confident GM will deal with it accordingly

In the meantime, I suggest people don't worry about it too much, just like you don't worry about getting hit my lightning every time it rains.

JUST DRIVE AND SMILE!

WopOnTour
 

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But I disagree with DMC5180 that it should be the owners responsibility to keep track of outstanding TSBs for their car. That IMO is a waste of time and energy as it's not as if you can show up at a dealer with no condition apparent and ask them to act on a bulletin anyways- they won't simply do it.

WopOnTour

To be clear. I never said, it SHOULD be the owners responsibility to keep up with the TSB's. Only that GM won't notify the owner of a particular model, every time one gets published, unless it gets raised to Campaign status.

Therefore the onus is shifted the customer if they wish to keep up with them.

I largely agree with everything else you said though.

It's good to know you keep a catalogued thread of of stickies. Regarding TSB's and Campaigns

I haven't really familiarized myself with this forum yet.

Just enjoying newbie ownership at this point and wishing I had a Gen 2

Dennis


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The onus is on the customer to keep up with what TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins) effect there vehicle.
My point was there shouldn't really be ANY "onus" (or responsibility) for any owner to have to "keep up" with the TSBs that affect their vehicle.

This is mostly because until the exact condition manifests, it simply isn't applicable to their vehicle at all.

Why maintain a list of things that MIGHT happen given the high level of remote possibility?

ans given the shear volume of the data, it's an unnecessary level of owner preparedness IMO

In any case welcome to gm-volt.com and thanks for contributing to the discussion

WOT
 

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WOT,

Yes, I do know the meticulousness with which you've logged the TSBs and other issues. I just wasn't certain which one(s) were directly about the fuse issue. Some of the threads/issues overlap, so I appreciate you pointing me in the right direction.

And as always, thanks for the copious useful information.

In the meantime, I suggest people don't worry about it too much, just like you don't worry about getting hit my lightning every time it rains.
Wait. What?!? I can get hit by lighting when it rains?!?!?!?!?

JUST DRIVE AND SMILE!

WopOnTour
Believe it or not, I do. Every time I get behind the wheel.

Thanks,
Rick
 
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