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Jeff, Where were you able to get the addresses? I'd like to know where they are putting them in SoCal.
 

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Southern California isn't really the issue, in my opinion. The I-5 corridor in Central California is what needs to be addressed most.
 

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My guess is that has more to do with the car. Temperature shouldn't affect a charger's output, but it would affect the car's thermal management system.
Oh really? Have you ever charged a 40+ kWh EV battery in the Central Valley in the summer and watched a Nissan CHAdeMO charger overheat and eventually shut down??

DCFCs are not 100% efficient - they must dissipate heat. Their fans run like crazy when you use them, even in winter. Cheap ones have inadequate cooling and either drop output or shutdown prematurely. This is a particular problem when charging something that has a battery big enough to run the charger at full current (115 - 125A for Nissan or ABB) for more than 20 minutes or so. This has happened to me when charging my RAV4EV.

You will never get 50kW out of a "50 kW" DCFC in the real world, because that marketing number is based on a 400V charging voltage and most or all battery packs are lower (charging at mid-to-high 300s typically).
 

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Many thanks--I guess I'm also waiting on the GFO-15-603 addresses to be posted.
 

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Oh really? Have you ever charged a 40+ kWh EV battery in the Central Valley in the summer and watched a Nissan CHAdeMO charger overheat and eventually shut down??

DCFCs are not 100% efficient - they must dissipate heat. Their fans run like crazy when you use them, even in winter. Cheap ones have inadequate cooling and either drop output or shutdown prematurely. This is a particular problem when charging something that has a battery big enough to run the charger at full current (115 - 125A for Nissan or ABB) for more than 20 minutes or so. This has happened to me when charging my RAV4EV.

You will never get 50kW out of a "50 kW" DCFC in the real world, because that marketing number is based on a 400V charging voltage and most or all battery packs are lower (charging at mid-to-high 300s typically).
I guess it's a good thing that the EVgo chargers are 60 kWh. Who made those CHAdeMO chargers that you were using? I would hope that, just like GM, some of the CCS chargers are built with better thermal management systems than basic air cooling and fans.

My whole point was that, in hot weather, the charge rate is probably more affected by the car's thermal management system than the charger's.
 

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I guess it's a good thing that the EVgo chargers are 60 kWh. Who made those CHAdeMO chargers that you were using? I would hope that, just like GM, some of the CCS chargers are built with better thermal management systems than basic air cooling and fans.

My whole point was that, in hot weather, the charge rate is probably more affected by the car's thermal management system than the charger's.
The EVgo chargers that I have used are certainly _not_ 60 kW, and I have never seen or heard of a 60 kW charger (not 60 kWh - that is energy while kW is power). EVgo often has 2 chargers installed in a given location: One is a dual CCS / CHAdeMO unit by ABB that is 125A, and one is a Nissan / Sumitomo CHAdeMO one rated at 115 A. You can see what is at individual sites via plugshare.com. If your battery is at a nominal mid-charge voltage of 350V (mine ranges from ~300 - 380 during a charge), you are looking at 44 kW of charging power.

I do think that fans can be adequate for most of the '50 kW' chargers like those above if there is enough airflow and enough heat sinking. The chargers should be dissipating only a few kW. Hard to do when in direct Sun though. A car with a decent thermal management system should have no problem with charging at these ~1-2C rates, but that is indeed a challenge for a Leaf (closer to 2C and passive thermal management). I would never buy a car like that.
 

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I just know that if my Volt is charging on L2 under average temperatures, it only takes about 4.25 hours. However, if the temperatures exceed 100 F, that charge time jumps to over 5 hours. I always assumed that it was due to the Volt's thermal management drawing extra power. I guess it could be the charger itself, too.
 

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I just know that if my Volt is charging on L2 under average temperatures, it only takes about 4.25 hours. However, if the temperatures exceed 100 F, that charge time jumps to over 5 hours. I always assumed that it was due to the Volt's thermal management drawing extra power. I guess it could be the charger itself, too.
That is interesting. I've never noticed my Volt doing that, but I have probably never charged at temperatures higher than 85F (SF Bay Area). I can hear the cooling system work on my Volt when charging; is yours especially loud at high temps? You may be right that it is diverting power from the EVSE for thermal management. The volt charges at such a low rate (3.3 kW max) that a diversion of a kW would impact charging times. Not so much for a car charging via a DCFC - I often run my AC when charging at ~45 kW to maximize battery cooling (perhaps a RAV4 peculiarity); that takes only a couple kW (~ 4%) so it does not slow charge times noticeably.
 

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That is interesting. I've never noticed my Volt doing that, but I have probably never charged at temperatures higher than 85F (SF Bay Area). I can hear the cooling system work on my Volt when charging; is yours especially loud at high temps? You may be right that it is diverting power from the EVSE for thermal management. The volt charges at such a low rate (3.3 kW max) that a diversion of a kW would impact charging times. Not so much for a car charging via a DCFC - I often run my AC when charging at ~45 kW to maximize battery cooling (perhaps a RAV4 peculiarity); that takes only a couple kW (~ 4%) so it does not slow charge times noticeably.
The noise is definitely audible in hotter temperatures in the Volt. I think the draw from the cooling system is 1-2 kW.
 

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It's official. BoltEV/AmperaE is 50kW CCS.

That's coming from my friend, who's an auto journalist and is at the official press event in Germany.
 

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It's official. BoltEV/AmperaE is 50kW CCS.

That's coming from my friend, who's an auto journalist and is at the official press event in Germany.
I'd have a lot more confidence in that proclamation if it could be backed up by some evidence. Otherwise how do we know that he wasn't just told the same thing that GM marketing has been saying all along?

It's not that I particularly think that the Bolt will have the capability to use a higher charge rate, it's that "I heard from a reporter" just doesn't have that ring of credibility for me, sorry.
 

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It won't be official until GM clearly states that the 2017 Bolt EV will never charge at a peak rate above 50 kW even if plugged into a 200A CCS charger. Right now GM marketing won't answer questions about charging on equipment higher-powered than the 125A chargers installed in the US today.
GM still hasn't released final fast charging specs. If 50 kW was indeed the number, they would have probably announced that by now, right? Which makes me believe higher than 50 kW is entirely possible. Perhaps a OTA update away. ;)
 

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GM still hasn't released final fast charging specs. If 50 kW was indeed the number, they would have probably announced that by now, right? Which makes me believe higher than 50 kW is entirely possible. Perhaps a OTA update away. ;)
Is an OTA update to increase charging speed even possible? Would seem if they software restricted it for whatever reason that would be whole lot of effort...They also been very vague with the new nav, that would seem to be a better showcase of OTA but who knows...I'm under the impression GM dealers are fighting hard to prevent OTAs; Gen2 Volt has OTA but with AA you still had to go to the dealership...I would imagine a good compromise would be that GM would OTAs to bugs/security patches at first while still leaving new features/improvements to the dealerships...For the dealers at least the customer leaves the dealership happy with new features...
 

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Is an OTA update to increase charging speed even possible? Would seem if they software restricted it for whatever reason that would be whole lot of effort...They also been very vague with the new nav, that would seem to be a better showcase of OTA but who knows...I'm under the impression GM dealers are fighting hard to prevent OTAs; Gen2 Volt has OTA but with AA you still had to go to the dealership...I would imagine a good compromise would be that GM would OTAs to bugs/security patches at first while still leaving new features/improvements to the dealerships...For the dealers at least the customer leaves the dealership happy with new features...
If all the hardware is in place to support say 60 kW charging (which the chief engineer has hinted at)...I would think a software update would be all that is needed? I dunno. It's not some safety critical update as say a brake module update, so I think it would be possible as an OTA?
 

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It won't be official until GM clearly states that the 2017 Bolt EV will never charge at a peak rate above 50 kW even if plugged into a 200A CCS charger. Right now GM marketing won't answer questions about charging on equipment higher-powered than the 125A chargers installed in the US today.
Well, Opel representatives clearly stated 50kW CCS and 7.2 AC when my friend, a journalist, was at the official press event in Germany. I asked this friend specifically to ask them that. How much more official do you need?
 

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Well, Opel representatives clearly stated 50kW CCS and 7.2 AC when my friend, a journalist, was at the official press event in Germany. I asked this friend specifically to ask them that. How much more official do you need?
Like....a statement from an Opel official in any kind of news publication? Surely your friend wrote an article on this 50 kW statement where he quoted Opel officials?
 

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50 kW is the expected rate, and GM will most likely market it as such. Now, the peak that it will actually accept is still unclear, especially because we don't really have a standard for how charging is expressed. Is GM saying that the Bolt will accept 50 kWh (including losses) in an hour? If so, the peak will most likely be 60 kW and taper as the SOC increases.
 
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