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The article is so balanced because its author is Jeff Cobb one of the administrators to both sites.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I think that the Chevy Bolt is really well ahead of the Tesla Model 3, not just the few months that Jeff Cobb has stated. The reality is that if you're new to EV and then choose between a Chevy Bolt and the sexier looking Tesla Model 3, and went ahead to order, guess the time difference between the delivery of the Chevy Bolt and the base Tesla Model 3. It would be over 3 years. From this practicality, the Chevy Bolt is ahead of the Tesla Model 3, by about 3 years, not a few months as stated by Jeff!
 

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Our own Jeff Cobb strikes again! As usual with Jeff, a very thorough and informative article.
 

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Very good article...I love balanced articles, cheerleader articles and hater articles are usually a waste of time...

“I have spoken with GM engineers involved with the development of the Bolt and Volt who are justifiably proud of the technical capability of these products,” said Baum. “However, they are frustrated that the sales of these products have been below expectations given the marketing program.”

Has the "real people, not actors" in which they have been caught using actors (google is your friend) really been a strong marketing plan? A lot of GMC vehicles are really just Chevy vehicles with some appearance upgrades...GMC commercials showcase the products not the awards they win...

"We asked whether it would be a simpler matter to sell 75,000 Bolt EVs per year if the car had come from BMW."

I started a thread on this...Keep everything about the Bolt EV the same except put a Caddy badge on it, I predict it would have double the sales...Half of all EVs are sold in California, in the major metros people are very image conscience, many people I know wouldn't be caught in a vehicle with a bowtie unless it was a Vette (which doesn't even wear a standard bowtie emblem)...

It's not the engineers fault...It's the GM decision makers...What we do know about the plan is an interesting one...GM took the ICE Spark and "EV-ed" it which keeps costs and the MSRP down...What we do know about the Bolt EV was it started on the Sonic's platform, evolved into it's own platform which GM has stated will be used for the Gen2 ICE Sonic and is built in the Sonic's factory...Whether or not you agree with it, it seemed the original plan was to EV the ICE Sonic in which the benefits are lower MSRP...The Sonic is a lot like the Spark in terms design, who and more importantly why was that platform picked? Spark EV was never a strong seller despite only being sold in a few states...Heck, could they have just put the Bolt's powertrain and battery into the Spark EV, had a sub-$30K price (before incentives) and possibly have some more range due to the smaller footprint? Going back to the Sonic, if they just EV'ed it, not bother with the aluminum body or the space maximization, could it have had a $29,995 MSRP (again before incentives)?

If GM wanted an EV sales juggernaut, all they had to do was EV an AWD mid size EV...Equinox if they wanted to keep it under Chevy but I believe that is their WORST brand, even a GMC or Buick would be more "exclusive"...Then offer a Caddy model but keep the price competitive unlike the doubled price of the ELR and the Volt...If you have a bigger car you don't need to bother with space maximization...

I think that the Chevy Bolt is really well ahead of the Tesla Model 3, not just the few months that Jeff Cobb has stated. The reality is that if you're new to EV and then choose between a Chevy Bolt and the sexier looking Tesla Model 3, and went ahead to order, guess the time difference between the delivery of the Chevy Bolt and the base Tesla Model 3. It would be over 3 years. From this practicality, the Chevy Bolt is ahead of the Tesla Model 3, by about 3 years, not a few months as stated by Jeff!
Overall agree but until Tesla announces the TM3 is delayed, can't really speculate...Also I'm not sure it'll be three years, I think it'll be closer to 1.5 years but that's just me speculating...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Overall agree but until Tesla announces the TM3 is delayed, can't really speculate...Also I'm not sure it'll be three years, I think it'll be closer to 1.5 years but that's just me speculating...
To those that reserved for TM3 with higher priced options, no delays unless you're later than the middle of the pack of the 373,000 reservations.

I'm talking about new clients now to decide on reserving for the TM3 and Chevy Bolt. The TM3 base model gets last priority. So it would be after the 373,000 deliveries, and if another person orders with with higher priced options, they get ahead and you get pushed back. So chances are slim to get your base Model 3 order into production and delivered even 3 years after today when you can get a Bolt from a dealer now.
 

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Bacardi, I wish I could +100 your post. The Bolt is nice, and may even replace my Volt. But if they wanted huge sales, they would have made it longer (it's 24" shorter than the current Equinox, 16" shorter than Volt), taller, and slightly wider. And they would have sold it as a Buick/GMC. They could have charged $49,999 base, $60,000 loaded. Mary Barra was quoted a few weeks ago stating the Bolt was going to spin off a significant amount of additional EV models. I am hopeful for a surprise announcement forthcoming. Then again with EV profits being weak and gas at a near all-time low price (adjusted for inflation) and not much competition in the midsize CUV class (XC90 T8 too expensive, Pacifica Hybrid too big and a minivan) there isn't much of a catalyst for GM, or anyone else.
 

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Bacardi, I wish I could +100 your post. The Bolt is nice, and may even replace my Volt. But if they wanted huge sales, they would have made it longer (it's 24" shorter than the current Equinox, 16" shorter than Volt), taller, and slightly wider. And they would have sold it as a Buick/GMC. They could have charged $49,999 base, $60,000 loaded. Mary Barra was quoted a few weeks ago stating the Bolt was going to spin off a significant amount of additional EV models. I am hopeful for a surprise announcement forthcoming. Then again with EV profits being weak and gas at a near all-time low price (adjusted for inflation) and not much competition in the midsize CUV class (XC90 T8 too expensive, Pacifica Hybrid too big and a minivan) there isn't much of a catalyst for GM, or anyone else.
Thanks; I heard that from Mary, I just hope they build compelling vehicles in the states...China is the #1 auto market in the world and automakers do not have a choice other than to build EVs in to China to avoid tariffs and qualify for China's incentives...This is why the ICE CT6 is built here and the PHEV CT6 is built in China...I just hope the next GM EV isn't a Sonic sedan EV...
 

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The Bolt was always meant to be a unique platform, the Sonic/Trax hybrid was used to test technology before the real platform was done. I am sure the current Model 3 prototypes use some modified version of the S chassis or something similar. They never intended the Bolt EV to be a compliance ICE on Sonic platform.
 

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The Bolt was always meant to be a unique platform, the Sonic/Trax hybrid was used to test technology before the real platform was done. I am sure the current Model 3 prototypes use some modified version of the S chassis or something similar. They never intended the Bolt EV to be a compliance ICE on Sonic platform.
You're very knowledgeable, if you have a source I'd like to see it...

Two years ago:
"The Sonic and Bolt will be built off the same platform"
http://insideevs.com/more-production-details-leak-out-on-chevrolet-bolt-will-share-platform-with-sonic/

Also:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106137_chevy-bolt-ev-not-on-shared-architecture-but-platform-name-secret-gm-says
"GM's Kevin Kelly gave us the following statement that appears to explain the discrepancy: The Bolt EV program originated on the Gamma architecture, but then grew into its own architecture—even as it maintained the G2 code."

Keyword to me is "GREW"...If what you're saying is true, then they choose a poor wording by saying "grew"...
 

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If GM wanted an EV sales juggernaut, all they had to do was EV an AWD mid size EV...Equinox if they wanted to keep it under Chevy but I believe that is their WORST brand, even a GMC or Buick would be more "exclusive"...Then offer a Caddy model but keep the price competitive unlike the doubled price of the ELR and the Volt...If you have a bigger car you don't need to bother with space maximization...
"Exclusive" is such a weird concept to chase when you're talking about wanting bigger market share and more units being used by customers.
 

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"Exclusive" is such a weird concept to chase when you're talking about wanting bigger market share and more units being used by customers.
On the surface, yes, yet if we dive deeper...Let's say you keep the Bolt EV vehicle the same (looks/range/specs/price), only difference, you replace all Chevy badges with Ferrari badges...Ferrari is certainly more exclusive than Buick or Caddy but a Bolt EV made by Ferrari would probably have 500K orders instantly...
 

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On the surface, yes, yet if we dive deeper...Let's say you keep the Bolt EV vehicle the same (looks/range/specs/price), only difference, you replace all Chevy badges with Ferrari badges...Ferrari is certainly more exclusive than Buick or Caddy but a Bolt EV made by Ferrari would probably have 500K orders instantly...
The only way it would get 500K orders is if it could somehow be actually made by Ferrari and not cost any more. Just slapping a badge on it wouldn't change anything. Car buyers aren't that stupid.

And the same goes for slapping a Cadillac badge on it. The only way that would work is if they actually built it with Cadillac amenities. That would cost more, and appeal to fewer people because of the increased price. You just have to look at the Volt to see how that turned out.
 

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The only way it would get 500K orders is if it could somehow be actually made by Ferrari and not cost any more. Just slapping a badge on it wouldn't change anything. Car buyers aren't that stupid.

And the same goes for slapping a Cadillac badge on it. The only way that would work is if they actually built it with Cadillac amenities. That would cost more, and appeal to fewer people because of the increased price. You just have to look at the Volt to see how that turned out.
That is what I'm saying, the Bolt EV was never made by Chevy it was made by Ferrari/Caddy and sold by them; same vehicle same specs same price...For Ferrari, it'd be such an out of place vehicle that it would pose zero threat to their current line up or damage their reputation...Now with Caddy, yes the same price...I skimmed a couple of Caddys base models amenities which do not come standard with leather...The only things I could find are two areas of contention already, GM's flavor of "homelink" and power seats, they are standard in Caddy...Now Caddy's can be loaded up with more options which could all be more areas of contention...So I'm not sure what specific amenities you're looking for...
 

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Now Caddy's can be loaded up with more options which could all be more areas of contention...So I'm not sure what specific amenities you're looking for...
Decent seats with power memory and a less plastic-y interior are what immediately spring to mind, but I'm sure there are others. I'm not a Caddy person (hell, I'm not even a North American Manufacturer person) so it's not my area of expertise. I just observe that the Caddy version of the Volt was more expensive and sold in miniscule numbers.

Here's the thing: what you perceive as "added value" in an upscale marque other people perceive as "expensive". GM is targeting the broadest market they can, and that market is more likely to be composed of Chevy buyers, I strongly suspect.
 

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Here's the thing: what you perceive as "added value" in an upscale marque other people perceive as "expensive".
And that's already the Bolt's problem - it's electric. Some of us consider that added value, most Chevy buyers consider it expensive. They'll prefer a nicer, cheaper gas car.

I think it's a confused marketing message - fancy drivetrain, but cheap materials, tiny cargo space, and lack of features such as ACC, power hatch, whatever that would be considered standard in a Cadillac.

I think they'd do better with a Buick variant. Make it look like the Encore - keep the fancy electric drivetrain, add a bit more space, and reasonable comfort/luxury. I'm fine with the Chevy model, but would have been happy to pay more for a nicer version.
 

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I think it's a confused marketing message - fancy drivetrain, but cheap materials, tiny cargo space, and lack of features such as ACC, power hatch, whatever that would be considered standard in a Cadillac.
But that is just the reality of electric cars today, especially ones with long range. Slapping a Cadillac nameplate on the car without spending more money to add Cadillac features isn't going to fool anyone into believing it's a Cadillac. And adding those features is going to make it even more expensive and narrow the potential market.
 

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But that is just the reality of electric cars today, especially ones with long range. Slapping a Cadillac nameplate on the car without spending more money to add Cadillac features isn't going to fool anyone into believing it's a Cadillac. And adding those features is going to make it even more expensive and narrow the potential market.
Adding cost/features would narrow the market on the low end, but expand it on the high end. I think that is a better formula for success - rich people don't mind paying for a fancy electric motor and battery. Poor people might like the idea, but can't afford to pay for it. This is why Tesla did well, first with its Roadster and then with its Model S. Rich people who like to think they are saving the planet.

Who is the target market for a cheap car with an expensive electric drive? A relative handful of people like us, I suspect.
 

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And if the Bolt WERE made by Ferrari, they would never sell 50,000 of them in a year. Tesla sells more cars *now* in a quarter than Ferarri do in a year. They'll already pledging by 2019 to *increase* their annual production across all lines, to 9000 cars per year. And that's why I feel "exclusive" is antithetical to market share, and is only good for inciting people to spend more money on ONE car than they would otherwise, not buy more cars.
 

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Adding cost/features would narrow the market on the low end, but expand it on the high end.
I'm having a pretty hard time envisioning an automobile market that has more buyers at higher price levels. Just look at Tesla - you sure don't see 400,000 reservations for the Model S. Why would the Bolt be different? Why wasn't the Volt vs. Cadillac ELR different?
 
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