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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
I have been TeSlayed before at a free charging station. Model S owner was parked, not charging. In Montgomery County Maryland, where I live, public EV charging spaces are only for use by plug in vehicles when actually charging. The shopping center sets a 2 hour limit for all parking at this location. So the Model S owner was behaving like a typical self-centered driver. Whether the vehicle was charging or not they would still be occupying the space until the vehicle was moved. I did not stick around long enough to know when the Model S owner moved their car.

I maintain that the answer is to convert all free public charging spaces to pay charging. The first generation EVs that had very limited range and could benefit from an hour of Level 2 charging are reaching the end their leases and are not as common on the roads here as even last year. Anyone driving a Volt, Bolt, New Leaf, Prius Prime, Clarity or a Tesla model anything do not need the crutch of free Level 2 charging. If the cost of charging was even $0.50 - $1.00 per hour these public charging spaces would not be abused.
 

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I maintain that the answer is to convert all free public charging spaces to pay charging. The first generation EVs that had very limited range and could benefit from an hour of Level 2 charging are reaching the end their leases and are not as common on the roads here as even last year. Anyone driving a Volt, Bolt, New Leaf, Prius Prime, Clarity or a Tesla model anything do not need the crutch of free Level 2 charging. If the cost of charging was even $0.50 - $1.00 per hour these public charging spaces would not be abused.
Something similar actually happened at my work - the Property Management installed 2 2-car charging stations (1 for each building on the property) and for the first 3ish weeks they were free (and off and on). A co-worker (whom I don't particularly like as she is very self-centered) would show up at 7 and plug her Prius Prime in for her whole 8 hour shift.
Then once the Property Management got everything squared away with the City of Austin's Electric Company, the stations were switched to a $2/hr charge rate, unless you paid $25 every 6 months to the Energy Company for free unlimited access to all of the ChargePoint stations within the City limits (or something along those lines), and said co-worker has not touched the stations since.
 

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This is just the same old situation in a slightly different form. It always used to be blocking by ICE vehicles. Now more and more it will be blocking by EVs. Because it's not about the car, it's about the driver. And of course that it is a vacant parking spot in a very attractive location. Few people can resist that. It is like leaving a cookie within reach of a toddler. They are going to grab it.
I don't see this problem going away any time soon.
 

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The real answer is more charging stations and more attention to those not plugged in (whether they need it or not). At L2 and 9-12 cents a Kwh you're only going to have to pay the cost of a shopping cart use to have a shopper shop at your store for a couple of hours. Other than initial cost the store would be more than willing to pay that to have those customers in their store. If EV's progress to the point of needing 8, 12 or 20 chargers per lot then so be it. It's cheap expense to get customers into your store, especially if shared amongst the stores in the "Mall" that are sharing the parking lot and not just the main anchor.
 

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The real answer is more charging stations and more attention to those not plugged in (whether they need it or not). At L2 and 9-12 cents a Kwh you're only going to have to pay the cost of a shopping cart use to have a shopper shop at your store for a couple of hours. Other than initial cost the store would be more than willing to pay that to have those customers in their store. If EV's progress to the point of needing 8, 12 or 20 chargers per lot then so be it. It's cheap expense to get customers into your store, especially if shared amongst the stores in the "Mall" that are sharing the parking lot and not just the main anchor.
Seems to me that if ev drivers are competing for the available ev charging stations at your local store, you’re not attracting customers to your store who drive electric cars, you’re attracting customers to your store’s ev charging stations.

Perhaps it’s time to increase the price of a charge at those public charging stations to recognize that the cost of recharging the battery includes both fuel costs (i.e., electric rates) and equipment costs. L2 equipment enables drivers to charge 3-4 times faster than using the commonly available 120-volt outlets. Not everyone finds such equipment affordable or cost-effective for home installation (and of those who do, how many include the cost of the L2 equipment when calculating the "per mile" cost of driving on electricity?). And what’s the value added to the cost of the charge if the charging equipment provides an 80% charge in 30 minutes?
 

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This is just the same old situation in a slightly different form. It always used to be blocking by ICE vehicles. Now more and more it will be blocking by EVs. Because it's not about the car, it's about the driver. And of course that it is a vacant parking spot in a very attractive location. Few people can resist that. It is like leaving a cookie within reach of a toddler. They are going to grab it.
I don't see this problem going away any time soon.
I actually wish they'd put car charging stations far away from entrances or anyplace very convenient to discourage people from parking there as a convenience. It might even help the negative perception that some ICE drivers have about EV drivers getting preferential parking treatment.
 

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One sad thing about situations like this is that it imposes a higher cost on the store owner. They are busy running the grocery business, and then they have to take time out to hear a complaint about the parking issue, call the tow company, deal with the irate Bolt owner, now they have two upset customers, etc. This is the last thing they wanted to deal with that day, and it's possibly one reason not to offer this service at all.
 

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I actually wish they'd put car charging stations far away from entrances or anyplace very convenient to discourage people from parking there as a convenience. It might even help the negative perception that some ICE drivers have about EV drivers getting preferential parking treatment.
That is a better way to place them, but it is often much more expensive to run the electric service to spots like that. Also, I don't think anyone ever thinks of that until after the install is complete.
 

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I actually wish they'd put car charging stations far away from entrances or anyplace very convenient to discourage people from parking there as a convenience. It might even help the negative perception that some ICE drivers have about EV drivers getting preferential parking treatment.
I wish they would too, but it'd most likely be significantly more expensive. The closer to the building and the main electrical panel, the less wire you have to run out to the chargers, less you have to dig up, etc.

We have 2 Chargepoint stations at work and this kind of parking happens all the time. A Tesla Model S usually gets there super early, and consistently grabs the first charger before anyone else shows up to work. When his car is done charging, though, he just goes out and unplugs it without moving it, which leaves the rest of us to park somewhere near him and stretch the cable over or around his car to plug in to the available station. Annoying, but it is what it is. I'd rather have to drag a cable over or under his car rather than complain to management and risk them charging us to use them... Ideally they could install enough chargers where if someone is not moving, there are still plenty of other spots available. One day hopefully
 

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I wish they would too, but it'd most likely be significantly more expensive. The closer to the building and the main electrical panel, the less wire you have to run out to the chargers, less you have to dig up, etc.

We have 2 Chargepoint stations at work and this kind of parking happens all the time. A Tesla Model S usually gets there super early, and consistently grabs the first charger before anyone else shows up to work. When his car is done charging, though, he just goes out and unplugs it without moving it, which leaves the rest of us to park somewhere near him and stretch the cable over or around his car to plug in to the available station. Annoying, but it is what it is. I'd rather have to drag a cable over or under his car rather than complain to management and risk them charging us to use them... Ideally they could install enough chargers where if someone is not moving, there are still plenty of other spots available. One day hopefully
Enough people pulling the charge cord over his paint will eventually scratch his car. Maybe he'll learn.

Where I work we can charge for free but will get ticketed if we're not plugged in or if the charger shows we've been plugged in for more than four hours. I get to work early and plug in. By mid-morning my Volt is charged and I go move it to another spot.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Couldn't you leave a note? Explain that other drivers want to use the Chargepoint station too; they could also charge if the owner of the Model S would kindly move their vehicle after their vehicle completed charging.
 

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One sad thing about situations like this is that it imposes a higher cost on the store owner. They are busy running the grocery business, and then they have to take time out to hear a complaint about the parking issue, call the tow company, deal with the irate Bolt owner, now they have two upset customers, etc. This is the last thing they wanted to deal with that day, and it's possibly one reason not to offer this service at all.
If they don't offer this service, their competitor will and will be picking up the money instead. Would cheap way to get more customers considering the amount they spend on advertising flyers (looking at thousands), having to offer sales not only on your stuff but on what your competitor is offering as well (price matching). Free charge stations could be "cheap" customer acquisition costs. They may become a cost of doing business expense and become more important as more people have EV's. Every time a person sees an EV charging, they think "That could be me." As for ICE parking, I don't know about you area but I've never seen that as well as not parking in Wheelchair spots, pregnant spots, Senior spots, they're almost always empty but then I live in Canada eh?
 

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...for the first 3ish weeks they were free (and off and on). A co-worker ... would show up at 7 and plug her Prius Prime in for her whole 8 hour shift.
Then once ... the stations were switched to a $2/hr charge rate ... said co-worker has not touched the stations since.
Of course. Who wouldn't pass up a freebie? It's not the co-worker's fault, it's the fact that someone was giving away free electricity.

Our electricity provider (BC Hydro) ran a energy-saving promo once where they gave out a free CFL bulb per person at a local mall. The lineup was absolutely ridiculous - people were waiting for over an hour for something that was worth about $5.00.

This is why I think that if you can't provide enough charging stations to meet demand then you need to price them with at least a nominal fee in order to manage that demand.
 

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Couldn't you leave a note? Explain that other drivers want to use the Chargepoint station too; they could also charge if the owner of the Model S would kindly move their vehicle after their vehicle completed charging.
It's a touchy situation. Us other EV drivers have left comments on the Chargepoint app related to the station, but I don't want to stir up trouble by leaving notes out on the chargers. Management doesn't seem keen on the chargers being there in the first place. I'd rather leave a cable on his car and let him deal with whatever happens. It's not like I'm dragging it across his car or anything, but his car is in the way and the only way to reach my car is to go up and over.

An inconvenience? Yes. Worth losing my free charging over? To me, no. So far I have discussed the possibility of getting more chargers at our location so even if the Tesla wants to sit there all day, at least he won't be blocking the chargers from us. One idea I threw around that seems to be getting some consideration is just installing cheaper, simple 120v outlets on all of the light poles in the parking lot. I'm already at work for 8 hours, and I have no problem using a 120v charger and parking far away. I'd rather walk a little bit farther and not have to compete for the chargers with everyone else. Everyone I've talked to seems to like this because it means that EVs no longer get the best parking spots in the lot.
 

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One idea I threw around that seems to be getting some consideration is just installing cheaper, simple 120v outlets on all of the light poles in the parking lot. I'm already at work for 8 hours, and I have no problem using a 120v charger and parking far away. I'd rather walk a little bit farther and not have to compete for the chargers with everyone else. Everyone I've talked to seems to like this because it means that EVs no longer get the best parking spots in the lot.
Anyone know if there's a 277V EVSE? This would make it really easy to add an EV charger to a lot of light poles around the country.
 

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Anyone know if there's a 277V EVSE? This would make it really easy to add an EV charger to a lot of light poles around the country.
TIL that parking lot lights can vary considerably in voltage. Apparently they can be 120, 208, 240, 277 and 480 volts. Guess it's time to talk with the building manager and see what they have. They installed all-new LED lights a couple of years ago; maybe by some stroke of luck they would be either 120v or 240v. If not, dang it!
 

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Anyone know if there's a 277V EVSE? This would make it really easy to add an EV charger to a lot of light poles around the country.
There's this handy thing called a transformer.

I also doubt that every pole is going to have 20-50 amp of capacity to charge a "real ev" Most of them are daisy chained to one another.
 

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There's this handy thing called a transformer.

I also doubt that every pole is going to have 20-50 amp of capacity to charge a "real ev" Most of them are daisy chained to one another.
Transformers could work but the cost to add those to convert that much current might not make sense. Even if they are daisy chained, the outlets could be on a timer so that they are only active when the lights are off, and just limit it to whatever the lights would typically draw . Have the outlets on a timer so that lights off = outlets on and vice versa.

But for commuting purposes in a lot where I'm usually parked for 8-9 hours a day, I don't need 20-50 amps even if I owned a "real ev". Level 1 12 amp charging would still be enough to gain back most if not all of the miles I used getting to work (30 miles).
 
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