GM Volt Forum banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,914 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK so I have sold the 2012 Volt and replaced with a 2022 Bolt. Loving it.

The quandary I am up against is that the Volt 3.3 Kw ESEV is ok if your making short runs but any appreciable battery depletion takes a long time to refill. Here is my situation, when I installed the 3.3 KW charger I also used 10 Guage wire on the install which would support a 7.2 Kw ESEV but the new Bolt can charge unto 11 Kw which would be really Nice. This would require removing the 10 gauge wire and replacing with like 8 gauge for a 9.6 Kw unit or 6 Gauge for a 11 Kw unit. The sub panel I am attaching to is good for 60 amps but has a 3.3Kw ESEV already installed for the 2011 Volt.

The 11 Kw unit from Clipper Creek seem to be the ticket but that would definitely MAX out the sub panel and the maybe a little bit over.

172662


Any other Bolt owners played this game? Easiest ? Best ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,666 Posts
Faster isn’t necessarily better. It’s harder on your battery and your home electrical system. I would go with the 7.2kW charging station, unless you are very impatient and deplete the Bolt battery completely every day. Of the EVSE’s you listed I would go with the AmazingE.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
532 Posts
Whatever power level EVSE you decide to go with, I would make sure it's easily adjustable, so you're not recharging any faster than you need. High charge rates are hard on everything and if you're plugging it in at 6 PM and you don't need it to be ready until 7 the next morning, the ability to dial down your EVSE (the 'charger' is built into the car) to an amperage that will get your car as fully recharged as you need it to be, rather than just slamming it with 11Kw and having it full before midnight

We've been driving BEV's now for almost 10 years and we seldom fully recharge them - We try to keep the battery SOC between about 20% and 80% and only fully recharge when we intend to make a trip which might require a full recharge. If you trade cars every few years, it's no big deal, but if you intend to keep your new Bolt long term for a couple hundred thousand miles, your battery capacity will decrease much slower if you don't fully recharge every day - If you're only going 75 miles tomorrow, make sure you have enough for 125 or 150 miles and that's more than plenty. I have friend with a 2013 Tesla S P85 that he has driven from coast to coast several times and he claims that he has never once fully charged his battery, but then recharging to any desired SOC is much easier on a Tesla than it is on most other BEV's

Your car will last a long time no matter how you charge it, but you can make it last even longer by understanding what wears down your battery faster and trying to avoid it. To each is own strategy

Don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,348 Posts
OK so I have sold the 2012 Volt and replaced with a 2022 Bolt. Loving it.

The quandary I am up against is that the Volt 3.3 Kw ESEV is ok if your making short runs but any appreciable battery depletion takes a long time to refill. Here is my situation, when I installed the 3.3 KW charger I also used 10 Guage wire on the install which would support a 7.2 Kw ESEV but the new Bolt can charge unto 11 Kw which would be really Nice. This would require removing the 10 gauge wire and replacing with like 8 gauge for a 9.6 Kw unit or 6 Gauge for a 11 Kw unit. The sub panel I am attaching to is good for 60 amps but has a 3.3Kw ESEV already installed for the 2011 Volt.

The 11 Kw unit from Clipper Creek seem to be the ticket but that would definitely MAX out the sub panel and the maybe a little bit over.

View attachment 172662

Any other Bolt owners played this game? Easiest ? Best ?
10 gauge wire supports 30 amps, as plain old standard wiring. Continuous loads (those that draw for more than just a few minutes at a time) are allowed 75% of rating. So you've got 22.5 amps to play with. Multiply that by 250 volts, and you're at 5.6kw.

ALLLLLL of those chargers are going to draw more amps than your circuit can support. You're going to have to live with slower or rip out the wiring and put in bigger, and pop in a breaker to match. (You'll need wiring rated 60 amps to use the "More Power" EVSE, which may mean 4 guage depending on what wire is involved.) Or just figure out how to live with charging only 15 miles every hour.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,914 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
According to this chart NM-B can handle 30 amps continuously.

So probably the right thing to do is the 7.7 kW is installable with the current wiring and is the cheapest install costs as it only requires a breaker upgrade to the existing wiring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
532 Posts
ALLLLLL of those chargers are going to draw more amps than your circuit can support. You're going to have to live with slower or rip out the wiring and put in bigger, and pop in a breaker to match. (You'll need wiring rated 60 amps to use the "More Power" EVSE, which may mean 4 guage depending on what wire is involved.) Or just figure out how to live with charging only 15 miles every hour.
I think he pretty much had that all figured out already, didn't he?

"Here is my situation, when I installed the 3.3 KW charger I also used 10 Guage wire on the install which would support a 7.2 Kw ESEV but the new Bolt can charge unto 11 Kw which would be really Nice. This would require removing the 10 gauge wire and replacing with like 8 gauge for a 9.6 Kw unit or 6 Gauge for a 11 Kw unit. The sub panel I am attaching to is good for 60 amps . . . . "
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,650 Posts
Which 2022 Bolt Color ?

"ability to dial down your EVSE (the 'charger' is built into the car) "

Which is my charging question -- Is the ( 6-8-12 amp pilot signal still thereon the Bolt like in the Volt )

In out condo if we get another electric car we may have to share a 20 amp run.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,914 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
532 Posts
Which is my charging question -- Is the ( 6-8-12 amp pilot signal still thereon the Bolt like in the Volt )
Even if it's not, there are many EVSE's which you can adjust down to whatever amperage you want - The EVSE tells the car, "We only have 8 amps here we can deliver" and the car sets it's charger to only draw 8 amps. The cheap 240 volt L2 EVSE I use most often has settings for 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 amps

Don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,650 Posts
yes - but the problem is the Charger in the car is the BOSS and it's state table programming may no follow the control frequency on the pilot pin.

We only have 120 VAC in our shared parking area but thanks to having to have Overhead garage doors for each set of cars at least we each have our own power socket.

I always wanted to have ever one open all the garage door at one time - then we might get a 50 amp socket :)

---solar dave -- migh remember me trying to charge my car off of a small wind system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,797 Posts
The Bolt L2 can charge at 11.5kW and DC charges at what 50kw? More? I don't think I'd worry about the max L2 charging rate affecting battery life.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,883 Posts
Electrician looking at replacing 12AWG wire going to an outside NEMA 5-20 at my kids new (old) home is recommending 6 gauge for Tesla future proofing and of course a 240V receptacle that matches the EVSE plug which could be a NEMA 6-50 (Seimens) or NEMA 14-50 (Clipper Creek) plus a a GFCI 30A, 40A or 50A breaker sized for the EVSE. Guessing the previous owner had a Leaf or something.

I doubt they will be getting a Tesla, but I suspect as more EV's are released by Ford, GM, VW, etc., charge rates may continue to creep higher. Half or more of the cost is labor on wiring redo's. So a 30A breaker could be replaced with higher amp as long as the wire can handle the load is my thinking. The bigger issue seems to be the number of conductors, 3 (NEMA 6-50 L1, L2, Grd) vs. 4 (L1, L2, Grd, Neutral) NEMA 14-50. So, run 4 conductor and cap off the Neutral if not needed would seem to be the most flexible solution. Now wether the panel can support 50A is another issue.

They don't even have an EV. But if they get a second car at some point...
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,883 Posts
Any other Bolt owners played this game? Easiest ? Best ?
See above

in garage or outside? Review the install guide. The bottom of those units must be at least 24: off the ground and you need a GFCI breaker. They have hardwired and plug versions. I prefer plug-in as that makes swapping out easier when the unit is replaced. You also need the correct receptalel, Clipper Creek plug units often have NEMA 14-50, but other plugs for higher loads are available.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,666 Posts
See above

in garage or outside? Review the install guide. The bottom of those units must be at least 24: off the ground and you need a GFCI breaker. They have hardwired and plug versions. I prefer plug-in as that makes swapping out easier when the unit is replaced. You also need the correct receptalel, Clipper Creek plug units often have NEMA 14-50, but other plugs for higher loads are available.
Steve, I thought that all EVSE’s have a GFCI circuit built in? And that having multiple GFCI’s on the same circuit can cause problems. I’d like to know what Clipper Creek and Siemens say on the subject.

EDIT: I contacted Clipper Creek about this and here’s their reply:

172668
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,650 Posts
Some GFD can have an adjustable current millamp adjustment there are at least 2 approved levels.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,883 Posts
Steve, I thought that all EVSE’s have a GFCI circuit built in? And that having multiple GFCI’s on the same circuit can cause problems. I’d like to know what Clipper Creek and Siemens say on the subject.
Even if the thing plugged in has a built-in GFCI, NEC code will require the receptacle be protected by a GFCI breaker. Otherwise, you could plug something else in that does NOT have a built in GFCI and risk serious injury or death. With 240V, nothing to sneeze at. You should not even plug in or unplug the EVSE from a 40A receptical without first shutting off the breaker, so an abundance of caution.

Now, if the unit is hard-wired, then the GFCI breaker would not be needed. This is true for other things (like hard wired on demand water heater for example, or furnaces). But if it's a plug in receptacle (120V or 240V) on an outside wall or in a garage or in a crawl space either the receptacle or the line it's on must be GFCI protected. I don't think you can find a 240V 40A GFCI NEMA 14-50 receptacle, so you either need a GFCI breaker or a hardwired unit.

Clipper Creek:
  • For personal safety, the circuit breaker MUST be turned off prior to plugging in AND/OR unplugging 240V appliances (including EVSE).
  • Residential 240 Volt plugs are specifically designed for occasional relocation, such as moving from one home to another. Most outlets are not rated for consistent plugging and unplugging.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,666 Posts
That’s interesting. In my home I have an electric range, dryer, water heater, and central A/C unit all on 240v circuits and ALL of them are plugged in. Only the outside compressor/condenser unit is hard wired. None of those 240 circuits have GFCI breakers.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,883 Posts
I have an electric range, dryer, water heater, and central A/C unit all on 240v circuits and none of them are plugged in. Only the outside compressor/condenser unit is hard wired. None of those 240 circuits have GFCI breakers.
Hardwired = GFCI not required. Also. plug location makes a difference. Laundry, bath, kitchen outlets (within 6' of water source) require GFCI outlets or circuits. Exterior, garage and crawl space outlets require GFCI protection. That's for new construction, or often when a permit is pulled for an electrical renovation. Old construction is all over the map. Just because you have something non-conforming does not mean it will meet current standards. Heck, my kid's place has 90 year old knob & tube! Would not be allowed today.

Needless to say, the knob & tube is getting replaced, as are all outlets, switches, lights. New wiring, new outlets, new switches, new 200A solar ready service & panel. Almost all the breakers will be AFCI, many a AFCI/GFCI combo. Lamps (bulbs) will be JA8 Certified LED's, can lights IC, airtight, dimmers on all, occupancy sensors on many, astronomical timer/switches on all outdoor lights.

So putting in a 240V line for an EVSE is a no-brainer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,666 Posts
Hardwired = GFCI not required. Also. plug location makes a difference. Laundry, bath, kitchen outlets (within 6' of water source) require GFCI outlets or circuits. Exterior, garage and crawl space outlets require GFCI protection. That's for new construction, or often when a permit is pulled for an electrical renovation. Old construction is all over the map. Just because you have something non-conforming does not mean it will meet current standards. Heck, my kid's place has 90 year old knob & tube! Would not be allowed today.

Needless to say, the knob & tube is getting replaced, as are all outlets, switches, lights. New wiring, new outlets, new switches, new 200A solar ready service & panel. Almost all the breakers will be AFCI, many a AFCI/GFCI combo. Lamps (bulbs) will be JA8 Certified LED's, can lights IC, airtight, dimmers on all, occupancy sensors on many, astronomical timer/switches on all outdoor lights.

So putting in a 240V line for an EVSE is a no-brainer.
My home was built in 1978 so I’m sure it’s not up to today’s code. Oh, I corrected my earlier post:

In my home I have an electric range, dryer, water heater, and central A/C unit all on 240v circuits and ALL of them are plugged in.
Also, I had a 240v circuit installed in my garage 2 years ago. I highly recommend L2 charging.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top