Preliminary specifications.

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/...html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2013/Jan/13naias/elr/0115_elr_specifications.html

Key point for this audience is the battery pack is the same as Volt's. As is the powertrain with maybe some tweaks to the B motor. It's a Volt with a different body and interior with I expect very similar range but a scooch faster off the line with a bit more max power.

People have to realize that this is exactly what GM needs to do to generate more sales without huge costs. Similar vehicles off the same platform and powertrain (the high development costs bits) with brand specific styling and interiors. In this case, given that the Volt is much more refined already than it's delta platform sibling the Cruze, I didn't expect as big a difference between the Volt and the ELR than many have speculated.

 

So what are we looking at, GEN 1.5.1?

I thought this was going to be GEN 2?

 

I thought this was going to be GEN 2?

GM has said for years the the ELR would be gen 1.5. We just didn't know how changed it would be. Gen 2 will be the 2015 Volt, I'm pretty sure. (I also expect a Voltec CUV under the Buick nameplate in 2015/2016. We'll see how my crystal ball does.)

 

And the one thing we all want to know, 0-60 performance, is "TBA"... great. When do we find that out?

 

I saw another article that said 0-60 was 8 seconds.

 

Suspension is very different:

Front:
HiPer Strut with continuously variable real-time damping and driver-selectable modes, specially tuned coil springs with side load compensation, direct-acting hollow stabilizer bar, hydraulic ride bushings

Rear:
specially adapted compound crank (torsion beam) with Watts link; double-walled, U-shaped profile at the rear; specifically tuned coil springs, hydraulic bushings; shocks with continuously variable real-time damping and driver-selectable modes

 

Statik just posted the most detailed specs yet on the lead article page:

I'm disappointed

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/...html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2013/Jan/13naias/elr/0115_elr_specifications.html

 

I think we all fooled ourselves into thinking that MAJOR voltec changes would appear in the ELR. GM is going to incorporate that into voltec 2.0 (new range extender, new battery, new chassis?).

Now, given that, look at what the ELR gives us, better performance, handling, luxury, in a distinctive vehicle with low production numbers. Have to look at the price delta between an optioned out volt vs the Caddy, but let's say that it is $10k. Would it be worth it?

I'd think that many would jump on it, especially in Cali.

 

Meh, I was not expecting too much, but did want to be 'pleasantly surprised'.
Too big for me, not enough range, I will stick with the Volt or a pure EV.

 

I am curious what GM means by limited release? I mean the Volt doesn't exactly sell in impressive numbers. So I guess that means they plan the ELR to sell even fewer?

 

My take is that the ELR's raison d'etre is to be the corporate halo car. My hope is that it doesn't get lost in the woodwork as has the CTS coupe, but instead, it will set things up for a full range of EREV models - sedans, CUVs - in the Cadillac division. The luxury class is still pretty much virgin territory for advanced alternative fuel vehicles, and it's a place where expensive new technologies can be more easily covered by high MSRPs. Whichever automobile manufacturer can take the lead in this segment stands to gain in image and prestige, which will have a positive effect with all its products.

 

Limited release probably means it won't be released in all markets, all caddie dealers won't stock them, they will be special order... So what is it , 2 more years for Voltec 2.0? That's fine I am still perfectly happy with my Volt. Though I am still holding out hope for 10-15 miles more range in the next iteration.

 

GM Execs were on record over here last week saying the gen 2 Ampera will have *less* range, not more. They want to get the cost down to take on the Pi-Prius. I can't see them diverging the underpinnings from the Volt.

I would not have bought the Ampera if it had any less range. I use all of it, every day.

 

It makes some sense to reuse most of the Voltec powertrain design, as it helps recoup development costs.
As the car will be priced at the luxury level price tag, we can certainly figure that this car will have a very limited
sales volume.

I read about some fellows that criticize the 1.4l 4 cyl. in the sense they feel it is too small.
In my humble opinion, I think that this engine does really do all it needs to do.
When I ride in CS mode, it did furnishes all the needed energy to move the Volt around.
In CD mode, I think the car hauls around a too heavy engine for nothing. I could certainly be happy with
a smaller and lighter engine: For my personnal usage, I ride 90% of the time on electric only.

I would have really liked that GM could offer a different vehicle body as their second Voltec based offering.
My other vehicle is a Dodge Grand Caravan that is mainly used to haul a boat, and carry voluminous objects that
the Volt's hatchback cannot carry. So, a Voltec minivan or a Voltec SUV could certainly make me dump the Dodge,
in a heartbeat.

Francois
B2653

 

3.3kW charger? Bummer.

 

Even the stupid Accord PHEV that officially launched today comes with a 6.6kW charger.

I really think GM is discounting how valuable the 6.6 can be in real-world public charging scenarios. I'm still a bit dumbfounded that the Spark EV will be rocking a 3.3kW charger.

-Drew

 

After examining the specs... It appears they use the same battery as the existing Volt. The ELR motor is tuned to output 50 more hp and 20 more ft./lb. of torque... So it will be a bit faster off the line. But... The combined battery + gas range has been REDUCED by 50 miles compared to the Volt. So the ELR will have a bit more power at the expense of range. O yes.. And it lost 2 doors.

 

I read a lot of negatives across several threads but this was my insideevs.com response:

The powertrain certainly changed. Whole lot of wishful/dreaming thinking going on. Makes sense that they used the R&D money and design they had for this generation. They did great I think.

ELR : 207 hp (154 kW) and 295 lb-ft (400 N-m) of torque and weighs 4,070 lbs
Volt: 149 hp (111 kW) and 273 lb-ft (370 N-m) of torque and weighs 3,781 lbs

There are a ton of features on this car. It competes with the likes of the Atlantic [Model S) not the Karma.

The gm site announcement:
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/cad...ws/us/en/2013/Jan/13naias/elr/0115_elr.html?goback=.gde_147033_member_204463876

Video: http://bcove.me/fxmkfcqh

Design:

• Enhanced AT-PZEV emissions meet California’s criteria for single-occupancy access to high occupancy vehicle lanes
• Light-emitting diode (LED) headlamps, daytime running lamps and taillamps, as well as signature front and rear lighting elements
• Twenty-inch wheels paired with tires designed to balance responsive handling and a comfortable ride with efficiency
• Interior design featuring cut-and-sew accented leather incorporating sueded microfiber, chrome, wood and available carbon fiber finishes throughout
• Cadillac CUE with Navigation is standard. CUE is Cadillac’s breakthrough system for connectivity and control, using Natural Voice Recognition, capacitive touch and hand gestures used on smart phones and tablets
• Programmable charging schedules and downloadable energy efficiency reports available online and through smartphone notification charging alerts
• Cadillac’s advanced active safety features, including Safety Alert Seat, Forward Collision Alert and Lane Departure Warning, along with available Side Blind Zone Alert with Rear Cross-Traffic Alert and full-speed-range adaptive cruise control
• Advanced chassis and suspension systems, including HiPer Strut front suspension, compound-crank with Watts link rear suspension and Continuous Damping Control, which adjusts damping every two milliseconds for optimal ride and handling in all conditions
• Standard premium Bose 10-channel audio system with active noise cancellation.

Interior:

• Eight-inch configurable instrument and driver information displays, offering four configurations ranging from elegantly simple to technologically enhanced information
• Auto-glide/power-assisted covered storage/cup holder in the center console
• Fold-down rear seat backs accommodate longer items, including multiple sets of golf clubs
• LED-powered accent lighting in the instrument panel and doors
• Available Opus semi-aniline leather seating.

Driving experience:

• Wide front and rear tracks – 62.1 inches (1,578 mm) in front and 62.4 inches (1,585 mm) in the rear – along with a long wheelbase (106.1 inches / 2,695 mm) and a low center of gravity
• HiPer Strut front suspension featuring lightweight forged aluminum components for reduced weight and more nimble, responsive action
• Dual-pinion, rack-mounted electric power steering system with premium ZF steering gear designed to provide excellent feedback while helping to save fuel
• A semi-independent rear compound-crank suspension with Watts link that incorporates weight-optimized trailing arms to absorb lateral forces, allowing the suspension to be tuned to handle vertical, forward and rearward motions
• Hydraulic ride bushings in the front and rear suspensions
• An electro-hydraulic regenerative brake system that captures energy and sends it to the battery pack
• Standard chassis control systems include antilock brakes, traction control and StabiliTrak electronic stability control.

 

Cimarron is reborn, I for one am not the lease bit surprised, its got some different interior trim, the drive train is identical, just tuned to get more from the SAME motor, all electrics can do this.

I bet less than 2K for the year will be produced, if even that many ... not sure why gm spent a dime on this, its not going to make them any profit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Cimarron

 

Cimarron is reborn

Get real. GM uses the same engine is the Malibu and the ATS. By your reasoning this means the ATS is the Cimarron version of the Malibu. Not close.

The ELR looks to me to be the most beautiful Cadillac both inside and out. Drop dead beautiful. I have no doubt that the ride and handling is also going to be much improved over what I have now. I may not get one but I'm not going to delude myself that it's just like my Volt.

I also post at gminsidenews. Usually when it comes to Voltec there is a war between the fans and the haters. This is the first car reveal of a GM vehicle where EVERY SINGLE POST was positive on the car. Not one single negative comment. It's unheard of. It's even more positive than the ATS.

I come here and it's like reverso world.

I think most members here are really focused on the drivetrain and maybe the 0-60 times. I suspect traditional car folks are looking more at the car as a car.

 

I'm not surprised that the ELR is just a dressed up Volt. It is too early for Voltec 2.0, and it is not worth it for GM to invest huge money in an expected low volume car.

It does appear that the suspension will be improved, rear seat leg room could be better than the Volt and the interior sure looks great (as does the exterior design). In line with Caddy expectations, I am sure that the ELR will have better carpets and sound insulation to drop the road noise compared to the already quiet Volt and I am sure that creature comforts will be better, but the Volt isn't bad in that area either.

Interesting car, but ELR 2.0 will be what I will be looking at.

 

And there it is...less than 3 hours from the reveal and we have the first Cimarron comparison! I have to admit...I thought the same thing, but in fairness this is much more than just a badge and leather interior job. Heck, the whole body-style is different (although there are some shared pieces), and the interior has a ton of unique pieces to the ELR (and all companies share these days). The suspension bits are nicely upgraded too. I AM (like everyone) disappointed in the drive train, but I am hoping the 0-60 and 1/4 mile numbers are better than predicted. In watching the C&D video I get the distinct impression they are hedging their bets on this one. Of course, that could just be wishful thinking on my part.

 

Wow this forum is a wierd twist of events.

I also post at gminsidenews. Usually when it comes to Voltec there is a war between the fans and the haters. This is the first car reveal of a GM vehicle where EVERY SINGLE POST was positive on the car. Not one single negative comment. It's unheard of. It's even more positive than the ATS.

I come here and it's like reverso world. Like people here were hoping GM could find a way to break the laws of physics or squeeze what is going to be a decade worth of development into a couple of years. Vehicle electrification is a marathon and it's going to be a long one.

Well all knew (or should have known) that the ELR was not going to be drastically different than the Volt. GM has been pounding us with that for years. Now I too was wishing for a little more tweaking to the powertrain but i'm not supprised by the result.

The one thing I can say is that this car has the nicest interior that has every been put into a car by General Motors by a long shot. This has an interior that can compete with $100K+ cars.

This car has every bit of technology that can possibly squeezed into the Delta II car platfrom in every aspect.

So am I dissapointed. No not at all. In fact i'm rather impressed by this car. This is the first vehicle that I can say the production model actually improved upon the concept.

For a low volume car with a couple of years to work with I don't think it's humanly possible for anybody to do better.

 

The Cimarron was based upon a dog of a car, the Chevy Cavalier - like putting pearls on swine.

In the Volt, the ELR is based upon one of the most awarded cars ever with a customer satisfaction rating that surpasses everybody else. It begins at an already high level, and most certainly raises the bar in many areas like comfort and convenience. It's another step in the right direction.

 

The Cimarron was based upon a dog of a car, the Chevy Cavalier - like putting pearls on swine.

My comparison is two fold, first, all the ELR's drive train , including battery , fuel tank, charger , most the chassis and almost all the computers are identical, its a body shape and some minor suspension tweaks, way more the same than different.

This is only the second time I am aware of Cadillac lifted the above to label it a Caddy, the first was a Cimarron.

Unfortunately, regardless of how slick it looks, it will probably end up being the lowest production Caddy ever in a Melina.

As with the Cimarron, it begs the question, why?, as others have posted for two year of pipe dreams of better this and that, were left with the same feeling of the Cimarron experience, GM cheaped out by not having an new design. They should have taken the budget and brought the MP5 to market, something that will increase sales meaningfully

 

In Electric motors, HP and Torque are simply the result of the input current and Voltage. Since its the exact same battery pack in the ELR from the Volt, they just change a single software limit to allow more current. Racers do this all the time, the limits are based on what effect it has on the battery and more heat losses in the motors. Since both the battery and motors are thermally managed in the Volt, there is a ton of margin in the Design. You could with software only modification double the numbers in the current Volt without changing the hardware, it just going to effect the longer term life of the battery.

 

Concurrance from this article but not sure it explains the varying numbers in the spec "117-135" and 154 "total system power". New implementation of 'Sports mode" perhaps.

Motors (two):------drive motor, 117-135 kW, generator motor, 55 kW
ICE kw/hp-----------------------63 / 84 @ 4800
drive motor torque,Nm/ft lb------295 / 400
Power (kW / hp): 154 / 207 (total system power)


http://www.motorauthority.com/news/...ews/1081677_2014-cadillac-elr-preview-guilt-free-luxury-upstages-the-chevy-volt

But thanks to revised software and calibration, as well as a new Sport driving mode, GM has managed to eke more performance from the electric system: The electric motor system delivers a bit more: 207 hp (154 kW), with 295 foot-pounds of instant torque, and 0-60 times are expected to be eight seconds, or possibly even a bit better than that.

 

The spin is so hilarious.... 'Its not just a Caddy with a Volt platform.'

But Yes, yes it is! Same pack size, same features, pretty much same performance (if you really think .5 seconds faster 0-60 is that impressive, it isnt). Its just a rebadged Volt with an upgraded interior and prettier exterior. Which is fine.

 

Performance on the bottom end looks to be the same, but on the freeway it'll have 30% more power to weight. That's substantial. Lots of new (but typically Caddy) features (rhoestatic shocks, adaptive cruise, etc.)

Certainly a lot in common (including 95% of the powertrain) - but also much more than just a Volt in a new skin.

 

Any ELR Questions you want answered? Ask them before 6:30 pm EST Tonight!

Hey Guys,

I am actually in Detroit for NAIAS, going to have dinner with the cadillac team tonight including Chris Thomason the lead engineer. If you have any questions you want answered, please post them on this thread and I'll try to get them answered.

I'm leaving in an hour so let me know!



Patrick Wang
Volt #10

 

I am actually in Detroit for NAIAS, going to have dinner with the cadillac team tonight including Chris Thomason the lead engineer. If you have any questions you want answered, please post them on this thread and I'll try to get them answered.

Thanks Patrick. That would be great. I think Walter has asked what we've been wondering the most about. But you could also ask if they're still using three cells in parallel. Also suggest to them that they do online chat!

 

What I'd really like is clarification of the 117/135 kW main motor and 154 kW total system power. Does that mean the engine can add more power than what the battery can produce? If so, can that happen before the battery is drained? (like the Sport mode on the Karma.)

What does the 117/135 kW dual spec mean? Different outputs in different drive modes?

 

What I'd really like is clarification of the 117/135 kW main motor and 154 kW total system power. Does that mean the engine can add more power than what the battery can produce? If so, can that happen before the battery is drained? (like the Sport mode on the Karma.) What does the 117/135 kW dual spec mean? Different outputs in different drive modes?

Funny that he posted the same request on insideevs and I came up with the same question for him on his site and on insideeves. Then I come here and see it. But of course it seems like a good question since it certainly is different than the Volt.

 

I think I would be interested in one, if I had not got laid off. I certainly am not going to drain my retirement funds for one. Wonder what my trade 2012 Volt would get?

 

Got these two questions... post rest on my site

Hey Guys,

I have the questions about heat pumps, heated steering wheel, and the total powerplant output. If you have any more questions now, please post on the first thread of my website, I'll have a hard time navigating to this thread on my phone.



Thanks

Patrick

 

Analyzing all data available now, it seems likely that the ELR uses the exact same Voltec drivetrain hardware as the 2013 Volt. That makes sense, because its too expensive to do a hardware drivetrain redesign that for a car that likely only sells a couple of thousand per year. The money went into edgy sheet metal and cadillac luxury.

The extra power is most likely a software parameter change that allows more current to MGB. GM specs the drive motor (MGB) at 117 - 135 kW, but its unclear what that means. My guess it that 117 is continuous draw, while 135 kW is peak. The Volt is derated at 111kW continuous.

It will be interesting what story GM marketing comes up with to explain the 154kW 'system power'. Its unlikely that that power is actually available at the wheels. I think they considered a 111kW vs 117kW too little of a differentiator, and needed a number express the perceived extra torque.

The extra weight causes a drop in EV and gas range. The extra power will cause more wear and tear in the transmission depending on the drive style of the owner. We talked about the 'torque softening' in the Volt to reduce mechanical stress. Until now some Volts have had ball bearing break.

It also could be that they opened up a little more of the 10.6 kWh charge window to reduce the range loss (hence the longer charge time). This takes a bit of the tolerance against battery ageing away. So overall, the ELR is likely to wear out a little faster than the Volt.

As for luxury or looks, this is an interesting 'niche car': a bit like an Audi-TT. At a price of over $60k, it would not be on my shopping list. For that money I would prefer the much larger and imposing Tesla model S.

 

At a price of over $60k, it would not be on my shopping list. For that money I would prefer the much larger and imposing Tesla model S.

No one looks at a Model S. Other than the door handles they are definitely "Meh" in person. Nothing wrong with them but nothing imposing about them. The Model S has a lot of cargo space, no doubt about that, but you can't go anywhere in them and it's a $70,000 car that doesn't even have adaptive cruise control.

FWIW my issue with the ELR isn't any of the things you've brought up. The complaint about using the Volt power train strikes me as weird. Yes the ELR uses the award winning Voltec but the advanced technology used in the Model S consists of wiring 6000 laptop batteries together. Which is superior? Anyway, my complaint about the ELR is the backseat. What's the point of having this great smooth riding car that you can't use to take friends to dinner? A couple of inches would have made a big difference.

 

Surly GM can do better on the acceleration for what is essentially a sports coupe. Why not just follow the Toyota RAV4 EV model. In "Normal" mode that "car" goes 0-60 in 8.6 seconds, but in "Sport" mode it drops dramatically to 7 seconds! AND that's with "only" a 115 kW motor. The RAV weighs 4032 pounds which is about 40 lbs less than the ELR. If they can't get this down to sub 7 seconds they are either

a.) doing something very wrong
b.) have some weak components in the driveline and are afraid of breaking something
c.) are afraid if the draw on the battery (for whatever reason)

Since sport coupes are such "look at me, look at me" IMAGE cars they need to have reasonably sporty numbers for street/country club cred.

 

If the Volt 2.0 has reduced range, I'm going for the Model S or Fisker Atlantic. I will be very disappointed if the next Volt is just an extreme cost cutting proposition.