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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today, my ELR's Check Engine Light came on with a warning that I have lost substantial power? The outside temperature was 29 degrees F. The ICE engine started then stopped after about one mile of driving when the message appeared on the speedometer screen. I tried to shift the car into the "Hold Mode" to no avail. The mode shifter button only allowed me to shift between Tour or Sport. After I got to my destination I turned the car off , and let it sit for awhile then turned it back on, and the ICE came back on, and I was able to shift to the "Hold Mode" to drive back home.

Anyone ever experience this type of action in cold weather driving with their ELR? When I owned my 2012 & 2013 Volts this was a seamless transition without out any check engine warning lights, or messages other than saying that it was too cold to operate on battery, and it was switching to the ICE engine without any problems. This was something new to me and I'm not sure if I need to take the ELR in for service or not? Any advice on this matter will be appreceiated!
 

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HOW COULD YOU ?

The ELR, is female, a beautiful woman who questions why you would force her out of a warm garage in SW PA, into a 29 degree day!

Once she got your attention, refused to let you Hold her, she allowed for a cooling off period in which she hoped that you learned to never do THAT to her again.

Here in So.CA, OUR women are less inclined to demonstrate the sensitivity you experienced.
I suggest you get a Jeep for cold days or move to a warmer climate.
I hope this helps!
 

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We don't have a ton of members who have an ELR so we don't have a ton of expertise. That said, rest assured it shouldn't work this way. Should work more or less exactly like the Volt. See if you can get the error codes from OnStar. Just as a complete SWAG I'd guess something like a mass flow sensor? I just say that because the problem seems intermittent. Doubt it has anything to do with cold weather. I haven't seen anything like this. Given where I live that isn't all that likely, but again, that's now how it should work.

I'm a little confused about the comment that you couldn't "shift" the car into Hold. You don't shift the car into Hold with the shifter. You do that through the menu. Also, what MY is the car?
 

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I'm a little confused about the comment that you couldn't "shift" the car into Hold. You don't shift the car into Hold with the shifter. You do that through the menu. Also, what MY is the car?
Don C, I know that! Please excuse my written terminology ignorance. Shift, Dial, Select, Menu, what ever you want to call it, they all mean the same to me in one way or another. I was trying to change the "Driving Mode" and it wouldn't allow me to select the "Hold" mode period.

And to your other SoCal pal; I thought this message board was to be used to assist owners that MAY have some experience with their cars, and not for smart A$$ comments like the one from <deleted> "Optimist" above. If this were another messaging system I'd Block his A$$ as he thinks he's so cute with his advice living out in SoCal. So please don't bother offering me any more of your nonsensical help! This is when Moderators on this board need to step in <deleted>.
 

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Yea, getting the codes from OnStar would help a lot.
I suspect something like a P0AB9 which sets when the ICE wont start for some reason
The default is a "Propulsion Power Is Reduced" message and some strange power mode behaviors when the POWER button is pressed (like a prolonged "Initializing" animation) or "greyed out" battery and fuel pump symbols, and no propulsion when shifting to D or R

So just press the OnStar button and request they scan the car for codes- and be prepared to write them down!
With that we should be able to give you some better advice than to move to a warmer climate.
(Sorry about that, but ELR owners in Cali are an eclectic bunch) feel free to block ;)
WOT
 

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This is when Moderators on this board need to step in <deleted>.
This moderator is stepping in to advise you to avoid name calling. If you don't like a member you can block them. But if you start calling others names, we may put you in the time out corner.

P.S. The same things happen to me when talking to relatives in warmer climes. They love to point out how warm they are while we are in the dead of winter. Of course, when they are in a drought, in an earthquake, hurricane, etc., they don't tout those as big pluses, haha. Pros and Cons. Everything has them.
 

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Yea, getting the codes from OnStar would help a lot.
I suspect something like a P0AB9 which sets when the ICE wont start for some reason
The default is a "Propulsion Power Is Reduced" message and some strange power mode behaviors when the POWER button is pressed (like a prolonged "Initializing" animation) or "greyed out" battery and fuel pump symbols, and no propulsion when shifting to D or R

So just press the OnStar button and request they scan the car for codes- and be prepared to write them down!


With that we should be able to give you some better advice than to move to a warmer climate.
(Sorry about that, but ELR owners in Cali are an eclectic bunch) feel free to block ;)
WOT
Thanks WOT, Yea, I Blocked <deleted>- Optimist out in SoCal so I don't have to see his <deleted> comments anymore.
I found a previous thread on this topic where this has happened to Volts before, the thread started by ewd1949: "Check engine light on. Engine will not start. Vehicle running on low power" or reduced propulsion, as is what happened to me today with the same message. So, I've read the comments in the thread, and now have some idea what to do. Although, it's apparent just as I thought that if taken in for service they will be unable to replicate the problem again. Like those that wrote on the thread, now I too have lost some confidence in the Voltech powertrain as a result. I'm just hoping it doesn't happen to me on a major highway, and become stranded on a median strip somewhere waiting for a tow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
This moderator is stepping in to advise you to avoid name calling. If you don't like a member you can block them. But if you start calling others names, we may put you in the time out corner.

P.S. The same things happen to me when talking to relatives in warmer climes. They love to point out how warm they are while we are in the dead of winter. Of course, when they are in a drought, in an earthquake, hurricane, etc., they don't tout those as big pluses, haha. Pros and Cons. Everything has them.

Steve, If you read my replies you can see for yourself who my comments were directed to! If you want to put me in time-out like I'm some kind of child then go ahead. That's why I fought for this country so you and others can have freedom of speech, but not be a wise guy. As I said I come to these boards to learn something about my vehicle not be insulted by some yuppie jerk.
 

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Thanks WOT, Yea, I Blocked <deleted> out in SoCal so I don't have to see his <deleted> comments anymore.
I found a previous thread on this topic where this has happened to Volts before, the thread started by ewd1949: "Check engine light on. Engine will not start. Vehicle running on low power" or reduced propulsion, as is what happened to me today with the same message. So, I've read the comments in the thread, and now have some idea what to do. Although, it's apparent just as I thought that if taken in for service they will be unable to replicate the problem again. Like those that wrote on the thread, now I too have lost some confidence in the Voltech powertrain as a result. I'm just hoping it doesn't happen to me on a major highway, and become stranded on a median strip somewhere waiting for a tow.
Well don't forget that this behavior can be the default action for numerous different codes. Even if your car is now working OK and the messages or warning lights have cleared- the DTC will remain stored in the system memory for a significant number of days or weeks (depending on the drive cycle counters)

So it would still be worthwhile to have OnStar try to retrieve that "history" DTC

WOT

Oh and Thank You for your service S!
 

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This moderator is stepping in to advise you to avoid name calling. If you don't like a member you can block them. But if you start calling others names, we may put you in the time out corner.

P.S. The same things happen to me when talking to relatives in warmer climes. They love to point out how warm they are while we are in the dead of winter. Of course, when they are in a drought, in an earthquake, hurricane, etc., they don't tout those as big pluses, haha. Pros and Cons. Everything has them.
FWIW, the suggestion to move to warmer climate went right past me, but I thought the rest of the post was an insult to women, like something out of a 50's Playboy magazine. What year is this? My wife, who grew up in minus 29 degree temperatures, would tear him a new one.

Anyway, I think the OP did get some useful advice and I hope he will stick around and contribute more.
 

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FWIW, the suggestion to move to warmer climate went right past me, but I thought the rest of the post was an insult to women, like something out of a 50's Playboy magazine. What year is this? My wife, who grew up in minus 29 degree temperatures, would tear him a new one.

Anyway, I think the OP did get some useful advice and I hope he will stick around and contribute more.
Thanks Fyodor for your support, I truly appreciate it! There is no place for the comments that were made by the overzealous SoCal <deleted>. That's why Trump who will become our next president thinks comments about degrading women make them powerful. I'll take this as a lesson learned, and if Moderator Steverino wants to impose child like time-out actions against me as he suggested then I surely won't bother asking about any other incidents or problems that effect my vehicle from now on here on these forum boards. I'll just do my on-line researches elsewhere. With that said, if Mr. Steverino is truly a conscientious moderator then he should be reprimanding the person who wrote disparaging comments directed toward women, and who was trying to be cute or funny! He shouldn't be calling me out, but rather for someone who is what he is.
 

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Thanks Fyodor for your support, I truly appreciate it! .... With that said, if Mr. Steverino is truly a conscientious moderator then he should be reprimanding the person who wrote disparaging comments directed toward women, and who was trying to be cute or funny! He shouldn't be calling me out, but rather for someone who is what he is.
I'm not going to take a side on this, but I think you will find that the moderators here, Steverino included, are reasonable and fair. Move on and don't take it personally.
 

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Don C, I know that! Please excuse my written terminology ignorance. Shift, Dial, Select, Menu, what ever you want to call it, they all mean the same to me in one way or another. I was trying to change the "Driving Mode" and it wouldn't allow me to select the "Hold" mode period.
I don't know why you're so irritated with me. I simply asked for clarification as to whether you weren't able to use the shifter -- which can happen BTW -- or whether Hold on the menu was greyed out. We're not clairvoyant so it's always better to understand the situation than not. No offense was intended. As for my temperature reference, that was just explaining that I didn't have any personal experience with cold weather and the ELR so I couldn't be helpful on that level. However, I still doubt this is temperature related in anything other than an indirect way. By that I mean the temperature may affect a sensor or connection but temperature isn't per se the reason the sensor or connection is bad.

Also you should heed WOT's point about the same codes and/or symptoms having multiple causes. Many times people say "I had exactly the same problem" and it turns out to be a completely different one.

Keep us posted as to how this turns out. It may help the next person.
 

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P.S. The same things happen to me when talking to relatives in warmer climes. They love to point out how warm they are while we are in the dead of winter. Of course, when they are in a drought, in an earthquake, hurricane, etc., they don't tout those as big pluses, haha. Pros and Cons. Everything has them.
I had no idea you cold weather guys were so sensitive! Yeah, every place has its downsides. The biggest in SoCal is the prices.
 

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I had no idea you cold weather guys were so sensitive! Yeah, every place has its downsides. The biggest in SoCal is the prices.
haha, yup, that's me, Mr Sensitive! I was unsuccessfully trying to point out to the OP that comments about different climates are common, don't take it personally.

I think the OP received informed and helpful replies. Also some in jest, that happens too. This thread may be helpful to the next ELR owner, so it's staying open.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Well don't forget that this behavior can be the default action for numerous different codes. Even if your car is now working OK and the messages or warning lights have cleared- the DTC will remain stored in the system memory for a significant number of days or weeks (depending on the drive cycle counters)

So it would still be worthwhile to have OnStar try to retrieve that "history" DTC


WOT

Oh and Thank You for your service S!
You are Welcome!

I took the ELR in for service today after waiting a week for an service appointment. OnStar provided me with the code POAC4, but the dealer disagreed with this code saying its a generic code for all hybrids, and probably wasn't the correct code. The dealer diagonosed it with codes: HPCM, POAB9. They checked all grounds in the battery for CAMS, and they were all OK. The Power Inverter would not allow further programming because it stated that all software was up-to-date for the vehicle. They said an Auto Start failure code of 80800000 came up on their screen, but I never used the Auto Start feature to date. Next, the dealer cleared ALL the codes in the software from the beginning. Lastly, they called the GM Technical Advisor Team, and they said if Check Engine Light returns, the Gas tank may have to be pulled for possible water moisture in the gas tank.

Since this ELR was on the dealer's lot in Kentucky for 2 1/2 years the gas moisture issue just may be the culprit even though I drove it 400 miles back home from KY using only one partial fill-up along the way to get me home. Now, I will burn the remaining gas in the tank, and place a fresh fill of 91 octane gas in the tank to see if this may help remedy the problem?

So thanks a lot for your help WOT regarding this issue!
 

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They said an Auto Start failure code of 80800000 came up on their screen, but I never used the Auto Start feature to date.
I may be reading this statement incorrectly, but I believe "Auto Start" is when the gas engine must start for extended range mode, not something that you can choose to use, like Remote Start, but Hold Mode could also trigger it. I think this failure code is thrown when the computer commands the engine to start and it fails for some reason.
 
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You are Welcome!

I took the ELR in for service today after waiting a week for an service appointment. OnStar provided me with the code POAC4, but the dealer disagreed with this code saying its a generic code for all hybrids, and probably wasn't the correct code. The dealer diagonosed it with codes: HPCM, POAB9. They checked all grounds in the battery for CAMS, and they were all OK. The Power Inverter would not allow further programming because it stated that all software was up-to-date for the vehicle. They said an Auto Start failure code of 80800000 came up on their screen, but I never used the Auto Start feature to date. Next, the dealer cleared ALL the codes in the software from the beginning. Lastly, they called the GM Technical Advisor Team, and they said if Check Engine Light returns, the Gas tank may have to be pulled for possible water moisture in the gas tank.

Since this ELR was on the dealer's lot in Kentucky for 2 1/2 years the gas moisture issue just may be the culprit even though I drove it 400 miles back home from KY using only one partial fill-up along the way to get me home. Now, I will burn the remaining gas in the tank, and place a fresh fill of 91 octane gas in the tank to see if this may help remedy the problem?

So thanks a lot for your help WOT regarding this issue!
Hi Vn-Vet-Volt,

I’m really glad to see that WOT could point you in the right direction to get everything squared away. If your Check Engine Light comes back, or you see any other problems pop up after putting in fresh gas, please let us know.

Our team here would be happy to work with your dealership and internal resources to get things investigated further if need be. If you do need our assistance, please feel free to send us a private message here or email us at [email protected] with “ATTN: Volt Advisor” in the subject line.

Best Wishes,

Amber G.
Chevrolet Customer Care
 

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You are Welcome!

I took the ELR in for service today after waiting a week for an service appointment. OnStar provided me with the code POAC4, but the dealer disagreed with this code saying its a generic code for all hybrids, and probably wasn't the correct code. The dealer diagonosed it with codes: HPCM, POAB9. They checked all grounds in the battery for CAMS, and they were all OK. The Power Inverter would not allow further programming because it stated that all software was up-to-date for the vehicle. They said an Auto Start failure code of 80800000 came up on their screen, but I never used the Auto Start feature to date. Next, the dealer cleared ALL the codes in the software from the beginning. Lastly, they called the GM Technical Advisor Team, and they said if Check Engine Light returns, the Gas tank may have to be pulled for possible water moisture in the gas tank.

Since this ELR was on the dealer's lot in Kentucky for 2 1/2 years the gas moisture issue just may be the culprit even though I drove it 400 miles back home from KY using only one partial fill-up along the way to get me home. Now, I will burn the remaining gas in the tank, and place a fresh fill of 91 octane gas in the tank to see if this may help remedy the problem?

So thanks a lot for your help WOT regarding this issue!
There's a GM bulletin for P0AB9, preliminary bulletin PIP5202.(that hopefully the dealer is utilizing)
It can be a tricky DTC to deal with. Basically it means that the system attempted to start your ICE, and it didn't start OR the ICE was running and then stalled and an attempt to refire it failed. It's a Type A DTC but it may have to occur twice to bring on the check engine lamp and the "Reduced Propulsion" and/or "Engine Unavailable" DIC message.

So essentially ANYTHING that can keep an engine from starting/running could be the root cause. From fuel supply issues, to bad fuel, to ignition issues, or even engine mechanical issues. Dealers can be fooled as the ICE appears to be running OK then stalls but the reality is it likely isn't running at all! It's simply "spinning" at 1400 rpm as motor generator A (MGA) attempts to start it. (looks and sounds like its running) After ~15 seconds it gives up. So to someone that's never seen it before it appears to "run then stall" so they don't start looking for "No Start" items as they think it was running -tricky stuff.

The bulletin also states checking some of the main system grounding points (as you have mentioned) an numerous other items known to trigger P0AB9. A software update for the power inverter module MAY remedy this DTC in some older Volts, but likely not the issue on a 2014 ELR.
This is pretty basic fundamental diagnosis. The dealership will get to the bottom of it.
WOT
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
There's a GM bulletin for P0AB9, preliminary bulletin PIP5202.
It can be a tricky DTC to deal with. Basically it means that the system attempted to start your ICE, and it didn't start.It's a Type A DTC but it may have to occur twice to bring on the check engine lamp and the "Reduced Propulsion" and/or "Engine Unavailable" DIC message.

So essentially ANYTHING that can keep an engine from starting/running could be the root cause. From fuel supply issues, to bad fuel, to ignition issues, or even engine mechanical issues. Dealers can be fooled as the ICE appears to be running OK then stalls but the reality is it likely isn't running at all, it's simply "spinning" at 1400 rpm as motor generator A (MGA) attempts to start it. After 15 seconds it gives up. So to someone that's never seen it before it appears to "run then stall" so they don't start looking for "No Start" items as they think it was running -tricky stuff.

The bulletin also states checking some of the main system grounding points (as you have mentioned) an numerous other items known to trigger P0AB9.
This is pretty basic fundamental diagnosis. The dealership will get to the bottom of it.
WOT
Everything you stated above is what happened a week ago while I was driving the ELR. Because as you described; "the system attempted to start ICE, and it didn't start. Since it's a Type A DTC, but it may have to occur twice to bring on the check engine lamp and the "Reduced Propulsion" and/or "Engine Unavailable" DIC message". Although earlier in my trip the ICE did come on by itself for a few miles then after descending a steep mile long hill, then being back on flat ground is when the ELR atempted to re-start the ICE, but failed, and switched back to the electric generator for the remainder of my trip for another couple of miles. However, as I said in a previous post the driver's screen would not show Mountain Mode, or Hold Mode that I was trying to select after the fault and hesitation of the car moving forward even while pressing my foot down on the accelerator pedal. When I arrived at my destination, and returned to my car after my 1 hour appt. I was able to drive home on all electric battery power, and all four Driving Mode screens were viewable again on the driver's screen with the check engine light staying on.

FYI: I didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling from the Cadillac/Chevrolet/GMC/Buick dealership I took my ELR to as they don't have a lot of experience with EV vehicles in my personal opinion. The female Service Advisor did the bulk of looking up bulletins on-line to assist the service tech mechanic doing the physical work on my car. She also asked me numerous questions that were basically no answers as none of the instances occurred while I owned the car. I was under the impression that these guys were sent to Voltec school in Detroit to be able to work on the EV's, and not the Service Advisors. Therefore, I don't have a lot of confidence in this dealership's ability to work on Voltec platform issues since they don't sell that many of them. I originally wanted to take my ELR to my former Chevy Dealership that serviced my two Volts, but the SM informed me I had to take my ELR to a Qualified Cadillac dealership because of Warranty Cross-Over Rules that GM stipulates, and they would be subject to audit by GM for doing Cross-Over Warranty work. I somehow don't understand it? GM should allow a customer to take their vehicle to the closest most qualified Voltec dealership. I had to drive 18 miles to this Cadillac dealership when my former Chevy dealer is only a mile from my home. Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense IMHO!

Thanks again WOT!
 
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