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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Volt experts please respond. Someone at work showed me an ELR dealer ad that says "no gasoline required" and asked if its true. I thought the Volt/ELR can't be used as a pure EV with no gas in the car? I called the dealer and they said you don't need gas even after the fuel burn. Besides driving with a constant low fuel warning, short trips and freezing temp issues,
Is Gas "required" to be in the tank to drive the Volt/ELR? I haven't heard of anyone using it as a low range pure EV etc... Anyone know or actually do this? What would happen over the course of a year or two as it wants to lubricate the engine etc...?


Thanks,
MrEnergyCzar
 

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I don't claim to be a Volt Expert, but You are quibbling about the meaning of the word "no". this is marketing puffery, a court allowed and time honored practice.



No gas required for what?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don't claim to be a Volt Expert, but You are quibbling about the meaning of the word "no". this is marketing puffery, a court allowed and time honored practice.



No gas required for what?
No gas required to operate the ELR..... even after the fuel burn...
 

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Volt experts please respond. Someone at work showed me an ELR dealer ad that says "no gasoline required" and asked if its true. I thought the Volt/ELR can't be used as a pure EV with no gas in the car? I called the dealer and they said you don't need gas even after the fuel burn. Besides driving with a constant low fuel warning, short trips and freezing temp issues,
Is Gas "required" to be in the tank to drive the Volt/ELR? I haven't heard of anyone using it as a low range pure EV etc... Anyone know or actually do this?

Thanks,
MrEnergyCzar
Pretty easy. It is like those ads on TV where the fine print is so small nobody could possibly read it.

No gas required...

as long as...and then the list of disclaimers :rolleyes:
 

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Has anyone driven the Volt as a pure EV with no gas in the tank? Will it move with just a charge?
Here is an old explanation according to saghost.


saghost

07-20-2012, 01:33 PM

The Volt will run. However, if it believes it has no gas at all, it will set PPR (propulsion power reduced) and an 'engine not available, add fuel' message immediately on start up. The message you can just clear. PPR, however, gives you a much slower gas pedal and limits power output (I think to 55kW.) The car is still driveable, even at freeway speeds, but it is much slower - even slower than a Prius, I think. :p

OTOH, if you kept a gallon in the car, it'd run perfectly normally for a year, using only .07 gallons every 6 weeks (around .63 gallons per year,) with the same range. Keeping a little fuel in the car is a good idea, even when you don't expect to use it.
 

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Here is an old explanation according to saghost.


saghost

07-20-2012, 01:33 PM

The Volt will run. However, if it believes it has no gas at all, it will set PPR (propulsion power reduced) and an 'engine not available, add fuel' message immediately on start up. The message you can just clear. PPR, however, gives you a much slower gas pedal and limits power output (I think to 55kW.) The car is still driveable, even at freeway speeds, but it is much slower - even slower than a Prius, I think. :p
...
Correct. So it is not, strictly speaking "required". Now, the ELR software may act differently than the Volt's and be more BEV friendly. In the Volt expect 0-60 in 20-30 seconds type of performance in PPR, even with a full charge.
 

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The Volt will run. However, if it believes it has no gas at all, it will set PPR (propulsion power reduced) and an 'engine not available, add fuel' message immediately on start up. The message you can just clear. PPR, however, gives you a much slower gas pedal and limits power output (I think to 55kW.) The car is still driveable, even at freeway speeds, but it is much slower - even slower than a Prius, I think. :p
I ran my Volt out of gas during a FMM burn on the interstate and it switched to battery mode, displayed the Propulsion Power Reduced warning, and kept driving just like normal. I had a full battery and I did not notice any difference in acceleration.
 

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I would think the ELR and the Volt would be similar. It appears as if the Volt displays a Propulsion Power Reduced (PPR) message to let the driver know only one of the two primary sources of electric power is available to supply power to the electric motor. Most often this is seen when the ICE is running in Normal mode and the car performs a maneuver requiring more power than the generator can supply (such as driving up long, steep hills). The depleted battery is unavailable, so PPR is displayed, and the car performs as well as it can using only generator-supplied power.

PPR may also occur following an FMM (Fuel Maintenance Mode). If you empty the gas tank while performing the FMM, the battery becomes the sole available source of electric power (there is no gas to run the generator), and the PPR message will appear on the display. Perhaps this is why engineers required a certain minimum amount of gas to be pumped into an empty tank to trigger an end to the FMM (wanted to be sure the car was carrying enough gas to power a battery-depleted Volt to the next charging or gas station).

The quoted message by Saghost seems to suggest that a PPR following an FMM might also limit the battery output and acceleration rate capability, thus maximizing the remaining battery range by reducing the rate at which power can be drawn from the battery. However, if you are not driving on a battery nearing the minimum state of charge, or under conditions that require more rapid use of the available power remaining in your battery - for example, driving up a long, steep hill, or accelerating rapidly - PPR should be little more than an irritating message on the display as long as you can use the remaining power to reach a gas or recharging station.

I suppose someone could drive a Volt with no gas in the tank long enough to trigger an EMM. During an EMM, the car is powered by the output of the generator. The generator can’t start if there is no gas in the tank, and thus the car most likely won’t operate. The same, I suspect, can be said of the ERDTT in cold weather. If the cold temperature requires running the generator, and if the absence of gas prevents the generator from running, the car most likely won’t run.

One could suspect that the same would apply to the ELR. It might well continue to run on battery only power, with no gas in the tank, until the first EMM - but the implication is that the Propulsion Power Reduced message would continue to be displayed, and most drivers would think it prudent to correct the condition that produced the warning message.
 

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I didn't merely suggest that the car will limit power while in PPR - I stated it outright. That's because when I ran the car out of gas on the freeway (in mountain mode) to see what would happen, it did. I didn't notice the power loss on the freeway driving on cruise control, but when I got off at the next exit and went to pull away from the stop sign, it was very obvious, and painfully slow.

I'm pretty sure that hitting an EMM with an empty tank or dead engine won't kill the car. The car drives on mostly engine power during the EMM for convenience and efficiency, not because there's anything wrong with the electric side or anything limiting the electric side - and as always, the car may consume electricity while driving mostly in gas based on the current driving conditions. My guess is the car would just defer the EMM until the engine was available, but that's just a guess.
 

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The statement 'requires no gas' has a needed disclaimer that you need to keep it within EV mode operation. There are loads of folks around that use no gas.*

*except to keep the genset operational.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for the responses. It doesn't sound like anyone has driven the Volt as a short range EV with no gas. It sounds like you might be able to drive it long term without gas technically but with reduced power. Others say it won't run at all....
 

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Saghost, thanks for the clarifications on the performance restrictions. It’s difficult at times to locate information on certain Volt operations. I’m nearing my first FMM and your information lets me know I can drive safely after the tank runs dry, but until I add gas, the PPR message will appear, and I’ll be driving a Volt in Sluggish, rather than Sport, mode.

Trip meter says I’ve driven 5,600 miles and used 5.9 gals since refilling the tank on vacation last June 30 (949 MPG!). OnStar app says 25% full, with 2 or 3 gallons remaining. I intended to refill the tank following the FMM (am planning some long trips in the fall), but I drive mostly electric around home (retired, drive 15-30 miles/day normally, recharge at home), and this would be an opportunity to evaluate the Volt’s ability to provide transportation when there’s no gas in the tank. Sounds like the PPR restrictions placed on the battery and car performance following an FMM would discourage the normal Volt driver from driving the car without any gas in the tank for any extended period of days.
 
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