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The UAW is exactly the reason that Tesla would be crazy to take over a GM plant, they are in union states. They would be much better off expanding production in Nevada.
 

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I agree, as someone who is a Union member (NALC) for over 34 years now. That's one of the reasons my garage contains a Cruze and a Volt.

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Agree. Is a factor in my Volt purchases also. Despite the disinformation out there on this subject from owners who want to keep complete control and pay as little as possible, besides better wages and conditions for workers, it is well known that productivity is actually higher in union plants than nonunion ones.


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The UAW is exactly the reason that Tesla would be crazy to take over a GM plant, they are in union states. They would be much better off expanding production in Nevada.
I respect the pro-union stance taken, but purely from a business standpoint it would be foolish to take on a UAW burden.
Regardless of union status, at least these would be manufactured domestically.
And the number of imports coming from places like China will continue to grow in our near future.

I know there are other non union auto manufacturers like Toyota etc ... that have plants in the U.S.
I tend to hear about them setting up shop in Mississippi, Alabama, KY,TN, the Carolinas, etc ...
Are any of their plants in union states, if so how do they fair in union states?
 

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I respect the pro-union stance taken, but purely from a business standpoint it would be foolish to take on a UAW burden.
Regardless of union status, at least these would be manufactured domestically.
And the number of imports coming from places like China will continue to grow in our near future.

I know there are other non union auto manufacturers like Toyota etc ... that have plants in the U.S.
I tend to hear about them setting up shop in Mississippi, Alabama, KY,TN, the Carolinas, etc ...
Are any of their plants in union states, if so how do they fair in union states?
I’m not aware that any of the foreign transplants have been built in union states or areas. I think they have kept to a Southern union avoidance strategy with the exception VW, which built a plant in Chattanooga TN (generally nonunion area except for GM’s Spring Hill (former Saturn) plant) but took a position of neutrality in union organizing matters (at least partially as a result of relations with their strong German unions). The local TN politicians undertook a pretty vicious public media campaign including economic doomsday threats to directly appeal to the workforce to reject the union, which unsurprisingly did.


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It's too bad Tesla won't hire UAW members.
That's going to be an ongoing fight. I've never been pro or anti-UAW. There was a time when UAW was more important and meaningful than it is today. I think they're aware of it though.

Otherwise, I'm pretty much okay with this idea. It makes a statement when the neophyte car maker "can do" where GM "can't do". At this point it's a statement that needs to be made.

Chrysler announcing it will open a Jeep factory in Detroit is yet another slap across the face of GM.
 

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That's going to be an ongoing fight. I've never been pro or anti-UAW. There was a time when UAW was more important and meaningful than it is today. I think they're aware of it though.
I would say that there was a point when unions were absolutely essential, but when the worker's rights they championed started to be codified into law, they became less necessary. The problem is, certain groups used that as an opportunity to gut unions and crackdown on collective bargaining. And when the unions lost enough power, concerted efforts were made to start walking back worker protections that had been codified into law.

If we had a worker-friendly government (we don't), unions wouldn't be necessary. Under a government that is extremely pro-business and anti-working class, unions become much more important. But as you said, this will be an ongoing fight for a while.

My stance is, if businesses treat their workers well enough, they won't feel the need to unionize. If the businesses don't treat their workers well enough, they'll get what they get.

Otherwise, I'm pretty much okay with this idea. It makes a statement when the neophyte car maker "can do" where GM "can't do". At this point it's a statement that needs to be made.

Chrysler announcing it will open a Jeep factory in Detroit is yet another slap across the face of GM.
I agree that it's an awesome sign that certain businesses are expanding in this economy, but I wouldn't consider it a slap in GM's face. Obviously, GM needs to be aware of externalities, but they need to hold fast to their business strategy (because I think it is one of the most sound of any current automaker).
 

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Currently not a single foreign automaker has a unionized plant in the US, unless you want to count Fiat-Chrysler.

Mitsubishi had a plant they shared with Chrysler at one time, I believe what they called the Diamond Star plant, in Normal Illinois. That was unionized, but Mitsubishi production has since ended there.

Many foreign plants are in so called "right to work" states, which is just another union busting tactic, and a disingenuous term.

As both a Union member and a GM stockholder, I do try to see both sides though.

Also, I won't buy a crummy car just in order to have the Union sticker on the driver's door. It's just one more factor that goes into my decision.

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I agree that it's an awesome sign that certain businesses are expanding in this economy, but I wouldn't consider it a slap in GM's face. Obviously, GM needs to be aware of externalities, but they need to hold fast to their business strategy (because I think it is one of the most sound of any current automaker).
From a public relations standpoint both Tesla and FCA have just bitch-slapped GM. There's plenty of talk about GM's reputation already ever since "Government Motors" and the ignition switch thing. For anyone who doesn't know how bad that switch thing was I can tell you that during that period getting a service appointment for anything else was difficult. I discussed it with the dealership SA there that I trust in person (and somewhat quietly). It was really bad. Those guys were taking a lot of abuse.

The plant idling could have and should have been handled better and speaking of unions....

Negotiations with the UAW are coming up for GM. Some are speculating that this is all about putting the next UAW deal in a hurt locker. I don't go that far, but it's being talked about.
 

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From a public relations standpoint both Tesla and FCA have just bitch-slapped GM. There's plenty of talk about GM's reputation already ever since "Government Motors" and the ignition switch thing. For anyone who doesn't know how bad that switch thing was I can tell you that during that period getting a service appointment for anything else was difficult. I discussed it with the dealership SA there that I trust in person (and somewhat quietly). It was really bad. Those guys were taking a lot of abuse.

The plant idling could have and should have been handled better and speaking of unions....

Negotiations with the UAW are coming up for GM. Some are speculating that this is all about putting the next UAW deal in a hurt locker. I don't go that far, but it's being talked about.
Well, sure. They call GM one of the legacy automakers for a reason. There is a reason it nearly failed as a company and needed to be bailed out. Most of the systemic issues with GM predate the bailout, and anyone who can't see that the current GM is not the GM of 10 years ago is, in my opinion, simply holding onto a grudge.

As for the "bitch-slapping" GM, I honestly think most people don't care. Sure, you have frat-boy-esque groups of Tesla dude-bros who high five every time Elon makes a dig at GM, but I really don't think they represent the majority. Heck, I doubt they represent the majority of Tesla owners.
 

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Anyone know what other union-made PHEVs will be available after Volt production stops? I can only think of the Pacifica and (if they make it) the PHEV Wrangler. Otherwise, it's slim pickings.
 

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Well, sure. They call GM one of the legacy automakers for a reason. There is a reason it nearly failed as a company and needed to be bailed out. Most of the systemic issues with GM predate the bailout, and anyone who can't see that the current GM is not the GM of 10 years ago is, in my opinion, simply holding onto a grudge.
Probably right, but it's still a thing. I don't follow GM that closely and the switch thing didn't bother me that much. A bad actor here or there is something every big corporation experiences. For those whose family was directly affected (people were killed or seriously injured) I can't find fault with them holding a lifetime grudge.

As for the "bitch-slapping" GM, I honestly think most people don't care. Sure, you have frat-boy-esque groups of Tesla dude-bros who high five every time Elon makes a dig at GM, but I really don't think they represent the majority. Heck, I doubt they represent the majority of Tesla owners.
Be very sure most people don't know or care about just about any subject. For those who do pay attention it's definitely a thing.

Be aware that the 24-hour news channels are ALL running it over back and forth, and particularly the business channels. On certain days the story has been talked about no less than every 15 minutes (or less). Barra may have met behind closed doors, saving herself hours of embarrassment, but both sides of the aisle are very pissed off about it. It's the most bi-partisan I've seen senators and congressmen being in a decade.

Tesla's and FCA's announcements, on different days both included "While GM is shuttering plants......". Tesla offering to buy a GM plant makes it particularly unavoidable.
 

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Anyone know what other union-made PHEVs will be available after Volt production stops? I can only think of the Pacifica and (if they make it) the PHEV Wrangler. Otherwise, it's slim pickings.
That’s it, as far as I know, unless GM or Ford will offer others. Ford was offering the Fusion PHEV, which is a paltry 20 EV miler, but I think that is going away in any case with their own sedan massacre. I read Ford might offer an Escape plugin but don’t know what range it will have, maybe like the Fusion in the 20’s-30.

http://evadoption.com/the-next-high-volume-selling-evs-ford-escape-phev-and-tesla-model-y/

The Pacifica is a great option (33 mile range) if they have the bugs out by now. The Wrangler’s range will likely be less unless they increase the size of the battery pack.


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Be aware that the 24-hour news channels are ALL running it over back and forth, and particularly the business channels. On certain days the story has been talked about no less than every 15 minutes (or less). Barra may have met behind closed doors, saving herself hours of embarrassment, but both sides of the aisle are very pissed off about it. It's the most bi-partisan I've seen senators and congressmen being in a decade.

Tesla's and FCA's announcements, on different days both included "While GM is shuttering plants......". Tesla offering buy buy a GM plant makes it particularly unavoidable.
Yes, but hardly anyone watches corporate media anymore. Their viewership is at record lows, and the average age of their audience is literally decades older than the average American's age. They harp on these stories because they need something to fill the dead air from all the important stories that they are paid to omit.
 

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That’s it, as far as I know, unless GM or Ford will offer others. Ford was offering the Fusion PHEV, which is a paltry 20 EV miler, but I think that is going away in any case with their own sedan massacre. I read Ford might offer an Escape plugin but don’t know what range it will have, maybe like the Fusion in the 20’s-30.

http://evadoption.com/the-next-high-volume-selling-evs-ford-escape-phev-and-tesla-model-y/

The Pacifica is a great option (33 mile range) if they have the bugs out by now. The Wrangler’s range will likely be less unless they increase the size of the battery pack.


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The Ford Fusion Energi PHEV is still available. The Fusion Energi is assembled in Mexico so unless I am mistaken no UAW.
 
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