[Shivetya]

https://electrek.co/2019/01/16/ford-all-electric-f150-pickup-truck/
No date yet but that they are talking about it is a good sign

 

[Don M]

Some things make more sense than others. With a truck, you often tow and at times for longer distances. Getting near a charge source with a trailer could be problematic . . . . and towing reduces range significantly

Ford made a Ranger EV 20 years ago - It didn't go over well either. I just don't see much market for an all electric F-150, but if they sell a few I'm sure they'll be priced to make money

Don

 

[jcanoe]

Ford may well offer an all electric F-150 to their fleet customers. Ford previously announced their intention of offering a hybrid F-150, maybe a PHEV F-150 too. Ford's engineers have the reduced weight of the F-150, reduced the number of cylinders from 8 to 6 cylinders for 2/3rds of current F-150 customers and now offer a 3.0L diesel F-150. Only the 2WD diesel F-150 comes close to realizing 30 MPG highway fuel economy. The next logical step is to introduce proven hybrid technology into the F-150 lineup, hopefully achieve 25 - 30 MPG without the diesel engine.

 

[!arry4pyro]

I've been watching this trend towards battery only pickups. A BEV pickup doesn't work for me, but I have to admit I'm in the minority. Even Workhorse has set aside their W-15 range extended hybrid pickup in favor of initial production of a battery only version. I guess I'm just going to have to adjust to a battery only pickups for most of my trips and keep my 16 year old Silverado for camping in the boondocks. It's a shame GM didn't include a plug-in pickup in their all new 2019 pickups as they hit their tax credit phase out recently. So Ford will be able to offer an electric 150 with the full tax credit that GM will be out of luck.

 

[Mister Dave]

Even Workhorse has set aside their W-15 range extended hybrid pickup......

The VIA Motors PHEV pickup died too.

 

[scottf200]

https://electrek.co/2019/01/16/ford-all-electric-f150-pickup-truck/
No date yet but that they are talking about it is a good sign

Another article:
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2019/01/16/ford-f-150-electric-pickup-truck/2595515002/

I think Rivian (and Tesla) will bring Ford and GM begrudgedly into the BEV truck market.
Title: Rivian R1T Electric Pickup Truck Shocks World In LA Debut (R1S SUV)
https://gm-volt.com/forum/showthrea...ckup-Truck-Shocks-World-In-LA-Debut-(R1S-SUV)

 

[Steverino]

The VIA Motors PHEV pickup died too.

I don't get it.

Given the needs of truck owners who are not merely urban cowboy commuters, it would seem that a Voltec EREV would make a lot of sense. EV in town, gas/diesel for the long haul. That is, until battery range increases dramatically, battery costs drop and charging stations are as common and widely distributed as gas station pumps.

Is there something dramatic coming sooner than we expect, or is the focus strictly on commuter trucks at this point because battery tech for other uses is simply pie in the sky at this point in time? With his announced semi, Musk seems to think now is the time but his forecasts are notoriously wrong when it comes to the short strokes.

 

[Tacoma]

This is more of an issue of education and consciousness.
The public, especially those driving trucks think an electric vehicle is a small car like a Prius.
They think an EV is a chassis, but it is really a drive train.
There is a place for EV trucks in the world, just like there are locomotives all of which have EV drives trains that can pull 27 millions pounds.

 

[Bill Step]

There is a place for EV trucks in the world, just like there are locomotives all of which have EV drives trains that can pull 27 millions pounds.

^^^^^ this

GM should couple the cruze diesel to volt drivetrain.

 

[Ladogaboy]

I think Rivian (and Tesla) will bring Ford and GM begrudgedly into the BEV truck market.

Unfortunately, only if they can affect truck sales. Ford is selling 70,000 F-150s per month. I highly doubt even a couple thousand Rivian/Tesla truck sales per month are of that much concern for Ford.

I see EV pundits continually make moralistic or "cool factor" arguments about why large automakers should jump on board the EV truck train, but I think they are falling on deaf ears. And as much as I dislike it, that might actually be the right choice for those automakers.

The harsh truth is, automakers who are making huge profits selling ICE vehicles are not going to transition to making EVs until it is profitable to do so. All of those other arguments that we find so compelling are moot. We might think our corner bakery should be making gluten-free, non-GMO brownies because they are a healthier alternative, but if only a couple of people are willing to pay $10 per brownie, who are we to tell them how to run their business?

 

[Shivetya]

The harsh truth is, automakers who are making huge profits selling ICE vehicles are not going to transition to making EVs until it is profitable to do so. All of those other arguments that we find so compelling are moot. We might think our corner bakery should be making gluten-free, non-GMO brownies because they are a healthier alternative, but if only a couple of people are willing to pay $10 per brownie, who are we to tell them how to run their business?

Profitable for them, but how do they make it profitable for dealers without inserting a significant markup. Dealers have what, maybe twenty to thirty years of petrol serviceability guaranteed. If someone makes a real break through on battery tech that could upset the whole time line.

Outside of a war or incredible break through that drops EV prices while raising capability we are stuck with governments jacking petrol taxes but in the US both parties resist that like the plague. It would also be an incredibly regressive form of taxation impacting those who can least afford it.

 

[FI Spyder]

Re the "battery break through", while I've seen a solid state battery hooked up to a laptop that continued to run while parts of it was scissored off, in EV application there are 5 problems to it they are working on and while they have two or three of those solved it was estimated that it will take 5 to ten years to get all sorted. This doesn't mean there could e "break throughs" that could shorten those to what ever (that's what break through means). As for the regular Lithium ion it will continue to get cheaper and more dense in incremental amounts in shorter time frames.

 

[Mister Dave]

Given the needs of truck owners who are not merely urban cowboy commuters, it would seem that a Voltec EREV would make a lot of sense. EV in town, gas/diesel for the long haul.

I'd give serious consideration to buying that when it comes time.

With his announced semi, Musk seems to think now is the time but his forecasts are notoriously wrong when it comes to the short strokes.

The semi that they don't talk about, according to him?

We really have to seriously question everything, this alleged F150 included. Ford may be the first with a PHEV truck, with emphasis on the word "may". I'll be happy to see it in production but I'm taking this announcement with more than a grain of salt.

VIA spent some money developing the pickup to some point, and then dropped it. No one is saying why. Maybe WOT knows - he worked with them for a while.

Unfortunately, only if they can affect truck sales. Ford is selling 70,000 F-150s per month. I highly doubt even a couple thousand Rivian/Tesla truck sales per month are of that much concern for Ford.

I see EV pundits continually make moralistic or "cool factor" arguments about why large automakers should jump on board the EV truck train, but I think they are falling on deaf ears. And as much as I dislike it, that might actually be the right choice for those automakers.

The harsh truth is, automakers who are making huge profits selling ICE vehicles are not going to transition to making EVs until it is profitable to do so. All of those other arguments that we find so compelling are moot. We might think our corner bakery should be making gluten-free, non-GMO brownies because they are a healthier alternative, but if only a couple of people are willing to pay $10 per brownie, who are we to tell them how to run their business?

These are important points. A BEV truck is a nice to have wish. It may be a poor financial decision for automakers. If not for ZEV states and other gubmint skewings of the automotive market, we might not be seeing electrification from any of the big automakers.

I know some folks don't like this opinion, but I'm still convinced that Volt and Bolt are compliance cars for GM. At least to this point they have been. We'll never know for sure unless the incentives and carbon tax hits are removed. Then we'd see what the truth is.

 

[samotlietuvis]

I would buy one. I am also waiting for ford 300 miles SUV due next year. Plan jumping on that. Ford has lots of $7500 credits left.
Who is providing batteries for Ford?

 

[KenC]

Uhm, presumably Rivian/Tesla truck sales would be taking F150 sales at the high-end of the truck market. What are profit margins at that level? $10k+? If you think "a couple thousand... sales per month" at $10K+, ie $20M+ a month, or $240M+ a year in profit, isn't "much concern for Ford", you must be a billionaire or something.

This market is ripe for disruption. You don't want outsiders to undermine sales of your most profitable vehicles, even if only a fraction. That's where you make most of your profit. It's what subsidizes your less profitable businesses. If you don't put your hat in the ring, with your own BEV/PHEV truck offering to keep your customers loyal, then one day you'll wake up and realize you're so far behind that you can't catch up, ie disrupted. Look at all the industries in recent years where entrenched incumbents have been disrupted because they scoffed at the impact of newcomers.

Unfortunately, only if they can affect truck sales. Ford is selling 70,000 F-150s per month. I highly doubt even a couple thousand Rivian/Tesla truck sales per month are of that much concern for Ford.

I see EV pundits continually make moralistic or "cool factor" arguments about why large automakers should jump on board the EV truck train, but I think they are falling on deaf ears. And as much as I dislike it, that might actually be the right choice for those automakers.

The harsh truth is, automakers who are making huge profits selling ICE vehicles are not going to transition to making EVs until it is profitable to do so. All of those other arguments that we find so compelling are moot. We might think our corner bakery should be making gluten-free, non-GMO brownies because they are a healthier alternative, but if only a couple of people are willing to pay $10 per brownie, who are we to tell them how to run their business?

 

[Mister Dave]

Let's be clear here. The Rivian concept truck is not going to be a class competitor to the F150, it's a going to be class competitor to the Ranger. The Tesla pickup doesn't exist, except in your imagination

 

[Tacoma]

... then one day you'll wake up and realize you're so far behind that you can't catch up, ie disrupted. Look at all the industries in recent years where entrenched incumbents have been disrupted because they scoffed at the impact of newcomers.

This is a sad thought for GM, but given all I have seen thus far, in my opinion, a fairly good possibility.

 

[Mister Dave]

Meanwhile, over on the pickup truck forum I participate in no one is talking about this. Not even a whisper. The only reference to "BEV" is a woman named Beverly.

 

[KenC]

Yes, let's "be clear", as I don't imagine it at all. I'm just using Ladogaboy's estimate. Take it up with him.

Let's be clear here. The Rivian concept truck is not going to be a class competitor to the F150, it's a going to be class competitor to the Ranger. The Tesla pickup doesn't exist, except in your imagination

 

[Mister Dave]

Yes, let's "be clear", as I don't imagine it at all. I'm just using Ladogaboy's estimate. Take it up with him.

It's said in general context to address several comments. Yours wasn't special or I'd have quoted it.