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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
DoE – U.S. Plug-In Electric Cars Consumed 2 TWh Of Electricity In 2017


Chart for people who like charts - Total electricity consumption by PEV, 2011-2017 (source: energy.gov)

Total electricity consumption by PEV:

  • 2011 – 0.02 TWh
  • 2012 – 0.11 TWh (up 450%)
  • 2013 – 0.32 TWh (up 191%)
  • 2014 – 0.63 TWh (up 97%)
  • 2015 – 0.97 TWh (up 54%)
  • 2016 – 1.38 TWh (up 42%)
  • 2017 – 1.94 TWh (up 41%)

This is what we use for a fraction of a percent of total vehicles on the road.
 

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And according to my calculations using Blink's math from my Blink Dashboard:

Barrels of oil saved assumes that 1% of US electricity generation comes from petroleum and can thus be neglected. The number of kWh used to power the EV, 340 Wh/mile electricity consumption of the EV, and the 28.6 mpg fuel economy of the comparable, conventional vehicle are used in the formula for Barrels of Oil saved:

Barrels saved = (Total kWh used * 1000)/340/28.6/42
That is about 4.9 Million barrels of oil saved just in 2017. Wow!
 

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  • 2011 – 0.02 TWh
  • 2012 – 0.11 TWh (up 450%)
  • 2013 – 0.32 TWh (up 191%)
  • 2014 – 0.63 TWh (up 97%)
  • 2015 – 0.97 TWh (up 54%)
  • 2016 – 1.38 TWh (up 42%)
  • 2017 – 1.94 TWh (up 41%)

This is what we use for a fraction of a percent of total vehicles on the road.
In context, USA's total generation was 4,015 TWh.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

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"But electric cars will make the grid crash!"
So 1%+ of the cars sold over the past year being plug ins isn't going to mean we are at 1% of the US light duty fleet, or even close. But 2/4015 is around 0.0005%, less than 1/20 of 1%.
That having been said, having a substantial portion of households in California plugging in another large appliance, i.e. the BEV, at dinner time won't be entirely without consequences.
 

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"But electric cars will make the grid crash!"
So 1%+ of the cars sold over the past year being plug ins isn't going to mean we are at 1% of the US light duty fleet, or even close. But 2/4015 is around 0.0005%, less than 1/20 of 1%.
That having been said, having a substantial portion of households in California plugging in another large appliance, i.e. the BEV, at dinner time won't be entirely without consequences.
But for the vast majority of users, having the car wait until 2 AM to charge will have no effect on their lives or experiences - it'll be parked from dinner until they leave in the morning. So if the demand becomes an issue, is simply a matter of the utilities needing to provide suitable incentives to persuade owners to charge later. I think pretty much all of the cars have done sort of delayed charging mode already, and some of them are very sophisticated.
 

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Plug-In Electric Cars Displaced 216 Million Gallons Of Gas In U.S. In 2017



Now think what we'll need in Mary Barra's electric future.
Let's simplify: 0.56TWh increase for about 1% market share. Fleet average age was 11.6 years at last count:
Simplified total = 1/11.6 * 0.56 * 1000 = 4.83TWh
So, slightly over double. That wouldn't be a problem, given current spare capacity, the implied cheap storage, the low and falling cost of renewable electricity and the time period involved.
 

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DoE – U.S. Plug-In Electric Cars Consumed 2 TWh Of Electricity In 2017


Chart for people who like charts - Total electricity consumption by PEV, 2011-2017 (source: energy.gov)

Total electricity consumption by PEV:

  • 2011 – 0.02 TWh
  • 2012 – 0.11 TWh (up 450%)
  • 2013 – 0.32 TWh (up 191%)
  • 2014 – 0.63 TWh (up 97%)
  • 2015 – 0.97 TWh (up 54%)
  • 2016 – 1.38 TWh (up 42%)
  • 2017 – 1.94 TWh (up 41%)

This is what we use for a fraction of a percent of total vehicles on the road.
People use over *70* TWh per year just mining BitCoin.

https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption
 

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I kept thinking how one would separate out this data. So followed the link to the actual report.
Lots of interesting assumptions.
As well as justifications and references to back up their reasoning.
They also admit discrepancies like their numbers being 40% higher than the latest corresponding GM published Volt + Bolt numbers, although other GM studies seem on target.

http://www.ipd.anl.gov/anlpubs/2018/01/141595.pdf
 
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A simple home can save over 5 kWh of energy a day if they change their lifestyle and convert to more efficient appliances:

1. Swap all incandescent and fluorescent (including "compacts") lamps for high efficiency LED lamps and bulbs.
2. Swap large electric ovens for smaller micro/conventional ovens
3. Swap electric cook tops for inductive cook tops (can't use aluminum, copper, or ceramic cook sets, though)
4. Swap older washers, refrigerators, and air conditioners for "HE" appliances
5. Swap tank water heaters for inline heaters
6. Use solar drying (clothes lines) instead of electric clothes dryers.
7. Plan meals to use the least amount of energy as possible
8. Plan clothes washing into larger loads, using less detergents and water.
9. Reduce unneeded illumination, including empty rooms, exterior, and garage. Add timers if needed.
10. Monitor energy consumption weekly until all savings are at maximum.

Doing all this will save the needed energy to charge any BEV per night. Many here have done a few (I have done ALL) and actually spend less per month on energy and gasoline needs. If everyone did these steps, the utilities will have so much surplus energy that that they will offer lower rates for all PHEV and BEV owners.
 
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In context, USA's total generation was 4,015 TWh.
You're off by 1000X (TWh vs. a trillion kWh):
from https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

"In 2017, about 4,015 billion kilowatthours (kWh) (or 4.01 trillion kWh) of electricity were generated at utility-scale facilities in the United States.1 About 63% of this electricity generation was from fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, petroleum, and other gases). About 20% was from nuclear energy, and about 17% was from renewable energy sources. The U.S. Energy Information Administration estimates that an additional 24 billion kWh of electricity generation was from small-scale solar photovoltaic systems in 2017."

My home electricity generator is TriEagle Energy, wind from northern PA, so for each month the amount of electricity I use I fed into the grid by wind power. I am curious how dependent on natural gas (i.e. Marcellus Shale fracking) wind power in northern PA is. I've read spinning reserves equal to the total nameplate capacity of the wind turbines is expected to be needed for backup, but the amount over time those spinning reserves are needed has proven far smaller than expected.

I'm 37 miles from work, am about 200 ft. higher than my workplace as well, usu. have about 4 - 6 mi. range left at arrival at work where I recharge it, and about 2 - 6 mi. range left upon arrival at home, at least in good weather, using simply Fan Only or fairly minimal Eco HVAC... It's a beautiful thing. I like having a (half) wind-powered car.

I've gotten the impression the car (2015 in my case) keeps using about 10.2 kWh per charge no matter what the total capacity of the pack is, originally 17.1 kWh in my case, giving a some cell-preserving margin beyond "discharged" (guessing ~25%) and "full" (prob. 80%), I'm curious if that's the case.

Roger
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
"But electric cars will make the grid crash!"
I doubt that. But it is an interesting dichotomy in a world where some say we need to use less electricity. That's what came to mind when I came across this.

Com Ed is required by the state to send me power use assessments telling me how much more power I use than my neighbors. Despite having mostly LED lighting in my house and new appliances, my lack of gasoline use for transportation and yard care (I own no gas cans) has me using more than my neighbors.
 
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As long as PEVs are charged at night, they'll actually increase the efficiency of the grid by using surplus generation from baseload generators that can't really throttle back much (coal, nuclear, and technically wind too since a little more it generated at night, even though they can be and sometimes are disconnected at night).

V2G (vehicle to grid) would help prevent the grid from crashing when it normally possibly would by releasing bits of energy from distributed storage (PEVs sitting idle but plugged in) when needed and giving exactly that same amount back to each PEV later.

"Use less energy" doesn't of course just mean electricity, despite electricity being the easiest to measure! Thermal energy from combustion is often not counted by many people, despite that energy often causing the most harm in various ways and being the least efficient. In many ways switching from combustion sourced energy to electricity-sourced energy brings via higher efficiency less overall energy use, depending on approach (i.e. efficient induction stovetop use vs. full-size resistive electric oven). Compressor-based water heaters however do seem really expensive, and are often too tall to fit in many basements. The efficiency issues with coal/gas burning power plants and the wire runs from them is also a factor, something rooftop solar (or wind farms somewhat) can help counter.

Roger
 

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saghost, delayed charging makes sense for a couple reasons, Time Of Use rates for starters. And in areas like southern California that actually may have electricity shortages at peak times, it may make sense sooner than later.
But my Volt charges so slowly at the 8 amp setting that it wouldn't have that much of an impact anyway. I generally plug in around 6pm and since I only need 4 or 5 kWh, I charge until 10 or 12 midnight. If it got to the point where Northern Virginia has electricity shortages I would do my part and set my charging to start after peak use times, but it wouldn't make any difference for me to do it now.

But for the vast majority of users, having the car wait until 2 AM to charge will have no effect on their lives or experiences - it'll be parked from dinner until they leave in the morning. So if the demand becomes an issue, is simply a matter of the utilities needing to provide suitable incentives to persuade owners to charge later. I think pretty much all of the cars have done sort of delayed charging mode already, and some of them are very sophisticated.
 

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Even so called renewables have an impact on the environment. Most people are familiar with the impact of hydro because they can see what the damn does. But solar has an impact too. Energy that's not used to heat the planet goes into propelling cars and such -- Though maybe a little less planetary heating is a good thing now. And wind energy takes that wind out of the global weather cycle. Today turbine use is so small that the impact is negligible, but if there were turbines everywhere, weather patterns would definitely be impacted.
 
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Energy can not be created or destroyed (ignoring fision/fusion where energy comes from the destruction of mass). The only energy lost to solar would be that little reflected back out to space by glossy solar cells (like ice caps do). Regardless how many windmills you have their effect will be negligible as they are only about 300 feet high while wind/weather goes to 50,000 feet and higher.
 

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I doubt that. But it is an interesting dichotomy in a world where some say we need to use less electricity. That's what came to mind when I came across this.

Com Ed is required by the state to send me power use assessments telling me how much more power I use than my neighbors. Despite having mostly LED lighting in my house and new appliances, my lack of gasoline use for transportation and yard care (I own no gas cans) has me using more than my neighbors.
Ah, yes - the "let's only look at one power source" argument. This is what those opposed to EVs will use electric utilization only to scare people away from EVs, but when you include the natural gas, electricity, and transportation gas/diesel the picture changes dramatically in favor of EVs.
 

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The only energy lost to solar would be that little reflected back out to space by glossy solar cells (like ice caps do).
The energy from solar that you use to power your house or car would normally be absorbed by the ground or the atmosphere.


Regardless how many windmills you have their effect will be negligible as they are only about 300 feet high while wind/weather goes to 50,000 feet and higher.
Negligible? I admit it's small, but it's not zero. High level winds are another thing entirely (and could also possibly be harnessed), but taking wind out of the atmosphere even at a low level does not have a zero impact. The earth and it's atmosphere is a closed ecosystem. The larger issue is scale. The industry is so nascent, that we don't yet know where the tipping point is for turbines having any real impact. And think about if I built a wind farm up wind from your wind farm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ah, yes - the "let's only look at one power source" argument. This is what those opposed to EVs will use electric utilization only to scare people away from EVs, but when you include the natural gas, electricity, and transportation gas/diesel the picture changes dramatically in favor of EVs.
Com Ed has no way of knowing that I have an EREV, electric lawn mower and other battery yard tools. All they know is what I use and what the state requires them to do: tell me about it.
 
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