GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Well The electric company in CT turned around and stuck it up our backsides. Doubling the cost of just bring electricity to our homes example if you have $100 in electrical generation charge you will have a delivery charge of $200 for a total of $300 dollars. My wife is kicking herself because I wanted to go solar 5 years ago but she said it was ugly and they are but not as ugly as the bill we just got.

Anyways charging the volt now cost me 0.21 cents per kilowatt ish I know my old volt was 10kw but I'm not 100% sure what the 2018 is.

Anyways I am most likely still going to be charging my care but I'm more saving the planet than saving my wallet.


what do you guys think or do?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
719 Posts
If you do the full financial evaluation including not just the price of gas vs electricity, but also maintenance, I doubt you are loosing boat loads with the Volt...

And it is never too late for solar. Prices keep coming down, Tesla is getting quite cheap :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
I agree with your wife, solar panels are so incredibly ugly...especially if you install it into an older classic home.

If it's something modern, then sure, whatever.
 

·
Registered
2016 Volt Premier, delivered Oct/15
Joined
·
648 Posts
The high cost of solar wind and other renewables is impacting the cost of generation. Other local factors your utility is probably doing as a result of PUC socialism includes lower cost electricity for low income people, handicapped people, medical letters, social programs etc etc etc. All these programs and the admin to run them are passed on to YOU!

I was amazed at all these programs in the US, we thought Canada had a lot of socialism type stuff but when we started buying US utilities we got a shock at the government mandated socialism programs that we had to deal with. Spoiler Alert..it’s getting worse......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
554 Posts
Who is your utility? I have a program where I pay the hourly wholesale rate for my electricity. (Charging an electric car overnight on this plan sends my bill way lower than it would be otherwise.)

The savings on the actual electricity help me not notice the distribution so much. My electricity is 15% of the bill, 15% is taxes, and 70% is distribution and charges for being a loyal customer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,556 Posts
But your decision to drive a Volt wasn’t based on the relative costs of electricity vs gas as a propulsion fuel, was it? The Volt gives you the opportunity to use an electric motor for electric propulsion and electric performance until the grid power runs out. As long as the cost of electricity for a "full charge’s worth of distance" is reasonably close to or below the cost of the gas needed to drive the same number of miles (= number of ev miles in a full charge), is there any reason to NOT fuel those miles with grid electricity and enjoy the advantages of electric propulsion? Once you drive beyond battery range, the cost of the fuel choice goes away... it’s all gas until the next recharging stop.

Note that in stop and go traffic, even after the grid power is depleted, electricity continues to propel the Gen 1 Volt and provide it with electric performance 100% of the time (i.e., the motor is fueled with gas-generated electricity), showing that electric car performance can be achieved even when less "saving of the planet" is being achieved by using gas as generator fuel.

...Admittedly, there’s a modest drop in "purity of operation" when driving conditions allow the Gen 1 generator to be clutched to the drivetrain for increased efficiency...

At window sticker ratings (106 MPGe), the Gen 2 Volt pulls 16.85 kWh from the wall to replace the 14.0 kWh Used in a full charge, and at $0.21/kWh, that’s $3.54 for 53 ev miles, whereas 1.25 gallons of gas will get you 53 gas miles at 42 mpg, so if gas in your area is $2.83/gallon, the cost of either fuel is about the same.

Of course, if your home charging use pushes the billing period totals into a higher tier rate, that brings up a different discussion... can you cut back on some other home use of electricity to offset the power used to charge the car? Are Time of Use rates available to charge at lower cost in the middle of the night? Can you charge the car near the worksite instead of at home, or elsewhere close to home at cheaper rates?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,321 Posts
I'm on UI in CT and have been paying higher than you all along... just looked at my latest bill and it's $0.26 / kWh (calculated the only fair way: (total bill - Basic hookup charge) / # kWh ). UI does offer a TOU (time of use) plan that basically gets rid of the distribution cost for evenings and weekends (makes it about half the cost per kWh). I keep meaning to sign up for it, but I rent and I think they have to replace the meter and I don't know if my landlord would be onboard or not. I used to charge at work so it wasn't that big a deal. Now I just don't drive anywhere so it's still not a big deal, I guess.

See if Eversource has a TOU plan, sometimes it's hidden on their site or you have to call them or whatever. But to answer your question, I will always plug in, regardless of cost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
The great thing about a Volt is the choice of fuel you can use. Using DOE test data, I drew graphs showing the cost per mile at various speeds for my Gen 2. Adjusting those graphs for your costs of electricity, at 21 cents/KWh electric drive costs around 3.3 cents/mile at 20 mph and about 7.3 cents per mile at 70 mph. At $2.20/gallon,using the ICE costs around 4.6 cents/mile at 20 mph and 5.5 cents per mile at 70 mph. If your goal is maximum economy, use electric drive below 35 mph and gas when you're going faster than that (but only if your trip is long enough to get the ICE up to operating temp).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Sherpa,
I slightly disagree with your method of calculating the cost/KWh. What I try to do is determine the marginal cost of charging the Volt. My utility has a bunch of charges that are not based on consumption. I disregard those just like you disregard your basic hookup fee. Then, because my utility uses a "tiered" rate structure based on consumption (i.e., the first KWhs are cheaper than the last so that consumers who consume a lot of electricity pay more), I look at what it's going to cost me at the highest tier I'm using. My theory being that if I didn't charge the Volt, that's the amount of money that I would save, so that's the actual cost to charge it.

edited to add: great idea about using TOU. My utility offers that and has some credits available for home chargers. Right now that doesn't make a lot of sense for me because there's a free charger near my work so I don't pay much for charging.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,321 Posts
Danno, fair enough, my statement only applies to bills like mine, which don't have tiers or anything... I've never had those so I tend to not remember they exist. Sounds like you are on top of your rate structure in a reasonable way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Last fill up was at 1.89 a gallon. I will still use my charger and I get to charge at work. I was just seeing what other people consider their cut off. Gas at one time was close to1.50 a gallon and I still used the plug. I got the car because I loved my gen 1 and I still miss it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,375 Posts
I'm on UI in CT and have been paying higher than you all along... just looked at my latest bill and it's $0.26 / kWh (calculated the only fair way: (total bill - Basic hookup charge) / # kWh ). UI does offer a TOU (time of use) plan that basically gets rid of the distribution cost for evenings and weekends (makes it about half the cost per kWh). I keep meaning to sign up for it, but I rent and I think they have to replace the meter and I don't know if my landlord would be onboard or not. I used to charge at work so it wasn't that big a deal. Now I just don't drive anywhere so it's still not a big deal, I guess.

See if Eversource has a TOU plan, sometimes it's hidden on their site or you have to call them or whatever. But to answer your question, I will always plug in, regardless of cost.
I can’t think of a reason to subtract the basic hookup fee from your calculation. As I see it, every item that uses electricity benefits from the hookup. The hookup is necessary to get any electricity. Therefore, the cost per kWh should be applied equally, including for your Volt. I use this logic for my own calculation which last month was $0.191 per kWh. My supplier is PSEGLI.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,253 Posts
I pay 0.030324€ per kWh (+ 0.0368€/kWh for transfer + 0.0279372€/kWh Electricity tax) which is 0.0950612€/kWh. But since this brings value, additional 24% value added tax needs to be included the total comes down to 0,117875888€/kWh, rounded up to 0,12€/kWh.

So.. for the commodity worth of 3 cents I'm paying 9 cents to leeches. Which is normal in Finland, since we are socialist.. sorry.. welfare state where there is no corruption.

But I gladly pay for it, since Gen1 uses roughly 5 lites of gas for each full battery and gasoline costs 0.4469€/litre (+0.6813€/litre manufacturing tax (0.7513€/litre from tomorrow on)) +24%VAT bringing the cost to 1.49€/litre at pump. Which is normal in Finland, since we are socialist.. sorry.. welfare state where there is no corruption.

But good news is that the 0.0368€/kWh transfer fee goes to transfer company (formerly government, sold to abroad by the greens, 100% owned by parent) which is by law profit margin limited to 10% (intracompany loans are not counted as profit and do not have time period or interest rate limits. 100 year loan with 30% interest is fine and would only negatively affect the profit margin) and the company is required to invest to grid upgrades and maintenance. Thank god that nobody would be so foolish that they'd take very long 100% loans from parent company, with ridiculous interest rates, to cover these upgrade requirements and then pass the interest costs to customers to match the 10% yearly profit margin.. Oh wait, how come the transfer fee has risen from 0.005€/kWh to 0.0368€/kWh in few years after the sale?!?!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,375 Posts
I pay 0.030324€ per kWh (+ 0.0368€/kWh for transfer + 0.0279372€/kWh Electricity tax) which is 0.0950612€/kWh. But since this brings value, additional 24% value added tax needs to be included the total comes down to 0,117875888€/kWh, rounded up to 0,12€/kWh.

So.. for the commodity worth of 3 cents I'm paying 9 cents to leeches. Which is normal in Finland, since we are socialist.. sorry.. welfare state where there is no corruption.

But I gladly pay for it, since Gen1 uses roughly 5 lites of gas for each full battery and gasoline costs 0.4469€/litre (+0.6813€/litre manufacturing tax (0.7513€/litre from tomorrow on)) +24%VAT bringing the cost to 1.49€/litre at pump. Which is normal in Finland, since we are socialist.. sorry.. welfare state where there is no corruption.

But good news is that the 0.0368€/kWh transfer fee goes to transfer company (formerly government, sold to abroad by the greens, 100% owned by parent) which is by law profit margin limited to 10% (intracompany loans are not counted as profit and do not have time period or interest rate limits. 100 year loan with 30% interest is fine and would only negatively affect the profit margin) and the company is required to invest to grid upgrades and maintenance. Thank god that nobody would be so foolish that they'd take very long 100% loans from parent company, with ridiculous interest rates, to cover these upgrade requirements and then pass the interest costs to customers to match the 10% yearly profit margin.. Oh wait, how come the transfer fee has risen from 0.005€/kWh to 0.0368€/kWh in few years after the sale?!?!)
Well, perhaps it's normal in Finland, since you are socialist.. sorry.. welfare state where there is no corruption. <grins> (I do very much envy you your educational system, though, and wish that we in the USA could match it. Sadly, we don't by a large margin. 8^(
Off Topic: A year or two ago, I watched a Finnish detective/police video series on Netflix (don't remember the title) that I found very interesting...a portrayal of possible Finnish life/crime. Of course, it really didn't portray Finnish life, but I enjoyed listening to the Finnish language and how the characters interacted. I believe that women were treated as equals and with respect. Loved that. There is a lot to admire about Finland (and its history), just not the socialist part. 8^D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,253 Posts
Well, perhaps it's normal in Finland, since you are socialist.. sorry.. welfare state where there is no corruption. <grins> (I do very much envy you your educational system, though, and wish that we in the USA could match it. Sadly, we don't by a large margin. 8^(
Off Topic: A year or two ago, I watched a Finnish detective/police video series on Netflix (don't remember the title) that I found very interesting...a portrayal of possible Finnish life/crime. Of course, it really didn't portray Finnish life, but I enjoyed listening to the Finnish language and how the characters interacted. I believe that women were treated as equals and with respect. Loved that. There is a lot to admire about Finland (and its history), just not the socialist part. 8^D
Yes, in Finland we do not have corruption as can be witnessed from the very low number of corruption verdicts compared to other countries.

For example when Minister of the Treasury buys expensive personal training (not related to his/her position) from closely associated company and expenses it to government it's not corruption. It's just a small mishap exaggerated by news agencies when they got hold of the information. Not something you would get charged in the court (like in other countries) and not something what you'd leave the office (like in other countries). Statistics say that no trial, no verdict, no corruption.

Well, she agreed to pay the expenses back after the cat was out of the box to calm the masses.

Anyway that 60k€ for few lessons wasn't all that bad. Our prime minister negotiated single 500 million euro farming subsidies payment from EU and agreed to pay 6 billion to EU for it. Hopefully she will take some lessons where someone will explain the difference of million and billion to her someday.

But for the OT - Must have been Sorjonen. Haven't personally watched it, since it's probably revolve around some melancholic cop doing some melancholic work in some melancholic little city. If that is your interest, then you should watch Frozen Land (Frozen Land (2005) - IMDb). That movie sums up Finland pretty well and makes nice reference to melancholic songs from Eppu Normaali (
).

But anyway we'll carry on being melancholic in the socialist.. sorry.. welfare state of Finland where there is no corruption.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top