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Discussion Starter #1
GM really knows how to build a loyal customer base and then plow it under. The amount of time and effort that went into getting Saturn customers to love their cars was wasted when the Saturn brand evaporated overnight. Saturn had big splashy festivals at the factory with literally thousands of people attending, a loyal, excited customer base, and people really identified with their cars and the brand.

As with the Volt, very loyal, enthusiastic customers (the kind every marketing expert values most highly) were just discarded even when GM knew the Volt had the highest customer satisfaction ratings of any of its vehicles. They were told nothing, owed nothing, and seemingly not given a second thought by a corporation that seemed self-serving, introverted, and lacking any marketing awareness.

If only GM’s marketers were as good as their engineers and product developers.
 

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Not sure what you are mad about. You have a Volt you love it, thats great! Me too! GM is now at a HUGE disadvantage with the structure of the EV tax credits vs all the competitors who are just now getting in the game (Hyundai, Honda). Govt has made clear they are not going to expand or change how the tax credit works.

They have said they are committed to electric and have 7 models slated to be released by 2023. No car lasts forever.
 

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I'd say the biggest problem is that their momentum has stopped. GM led the pack in EVs, first with the Volt and then with the Bolt that beat the Model 3 to market by more than a year. But since the Bolt there hasn't been a peep out of them, they should have announced a Model 3 competitor by now. The Volt had a lot of conquest customers something they haven't been able to achieve in decades. I was a Chrysler customer for 30 years, which is a traditional competitor, but I was on my way to Audi when I test drove the Volt. More importantly they were selling a lot of Volts in California in neighborhoods where there haven't been any Chevy's in living memory, but those Volt customers, who came from Toyota, are now moving on to Tesla because GM has nothing to sell them. VW, who is late to the game, is now talking about a having a huge number of cars, here not just in China. I'll be moving on to a BEV in the next year or two, just as soon as someone comes out with one that meets my needs. I suspect that it will be a VW product, maybe a Model 3 if they fix some of the things that I don't like about it, but in GM doesn't have something in that time period I'll be gone for good, I was 33 when they lost me the first time, they got me back at 62, failing an incredible medical breakthrough there is no way they that they'll have a chance to get me back again because I won't be shopping for a car when I'm 95.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Not sure what you are mad about. You have a Volt you love it, thats great! Me too! GM is now at a HUGE disadvantage with the structure of the EV tax credits vs all the competitors who are just now getting in the game (Hyundai, Honda). Govt has made clear they are not going to expand or change how the tax credit works.

They have said they are committed to electric and have 7 models slated to be released by 2023. No car lasts forever.
I agree about GM's loss of momentum. I disagree that the Volt is "a car" that is discontinued like when GM discontinued the Lumina.

To me the Volt plugin hybrid is a class of car - like a steam car in the early 1900s. The current classes are ICE, hybrids, plugin hybrids, and BEVs. BEVs are simple and well understood but lack the necessary charging infrastructure. Hybrids save gas and are unique in their way but are mostly a variation on ICE cars (they use their gas engines much of the time and their small batteries and electric-assist engines are minor players). The plugin Prius is more like a normal hybrid with its small battery and reliance on its ICE.

But the Volt was unique - in a class by itself. The car may not last but the technology should continue. But it looks like it will die. It is a major loss of technology for all the reasons mentioned by different writers on this Blog.
 

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I'd say the biggest problem is that their momentum has stopped. GM led the pack in EVs, first with the Volt and then with the Bolt that beat the Model 3 to market by more than a year. But since the Bolt there hasn't been a peep out of them, they should have announced a Model 3 competitor by now. The Volt had a lot of conquest customers something they haven't been able to achieve in decades. I was a Chrysler customer for 30 years, which is a traditional competitor, but I was on my way to Audi when I test drove the Volt. More importantly they were selling a lot of Volts in California in neighborhoods where there haven't been any Chevy's in living memory, but those Volt customers, who came from Toyota, are now moving on to Tesla because GM has nothing to sell them. VW, who is late to the game, is now talking about a having a huge number of cars, here not just in China. I'll be moving on to a BEV in the next year or two, just as soon as someone comes out with one that meets my needs. I suspect that it will be a VW product, maybe a Model 3 if they fix some of the things that I don't like about it, but in GM doesn't have something in that time period I'll be gone for good, I was 33 when they lost me the first time, they got me back at 62, failing an incredible medical breakthrough there is no way they that they'll have a chance to get me back again because I won't be shopping for a car when I'm 95.
In 30 odd years we will be driving or riding on the ghost bus. It will probably be a diesel.
 

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I’m not mad about Volt cancellation, but it is disappointing, and more importantly, indicates a lack of commitment to EVs. One might think that the Volt would have been continued until GM had a aviable alternative. GM has talked in broad generalities about their EV future but I’m extremely skeptical that there is any real commitment there. There have been no teasers, marketing, auto show reveals, press announcements at all for any new EVs. Maybe all their development and marketing is happening overseasd. I’ll believe it when I see it.
 

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GM really knows how to build a loyal customer base and then plow it under. The amount of time and effort that went into getting Saturn customers to love their cars was wasted when the Saturn brand evaporated overnight. Saturn had big splashy festivals at the factory with literally thousands of people attending, a loyal, excited customer base, and people really identified with their cars and the brand.

As with the Volt, very loyal, enthusiastic customers (the kind every marketing expert values most highly) were just discarded even when GM knew the Volt had the highest customer satisfaction ratings of any of its vehicles. They were told nothing, owed nothing, and seemingly not given a second thought by a corporation that seemed self-serving, introverted, and lacking any marketing awareness.

If only GM’s marketers were as good as their engineers and product developers.
I totally agree. I think the Saturn story is another good example of this. They are looking for a home run, and have no appreciation for wins that are lessor than that. They discount and discard customer goodwill like it has no value. I believe it is folly. You just can't build a following like this.
 

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Not sure about the satisfied Saturn customers. There was a major class action lawsuit about the Vue CVT transmission that failed at or before the 100,000 mile (or was that Km.) point where it cost many thousands to replace. You could pick up a nice Vue for a few thousand dollars.
 

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If GM did have a plan to move the Volt's Voltec to a CUV (I thought GM indicated this was the plan at some point which seemed like a good idea to a lot of folks), into a new product that could be called a CrossVolt or something simliar. Then for a short period of time, they could keep Hammtramck's open building Volt's until the new vehicle was released. GM just doen't see the value of continuing a product and keeping a fan base intact.

I hear some folks in the forum hemming and hawing about how it doesn't really matter what GM did with the Volt, but I can't tell you how many people have come up to me and said, "I hear GM is dropping the Volt". Bad news travels really fast. The Volt has been a lightening rod for the whole EV movement. If GM were positioned properly before doing this, the damage could have been much less. My advice to GM before all this was to tread very lightly before getting rid of the Volt. Again, the time would be right when it was obvious to EVERYONE, that the time was right. To be more specific, perhaps this would have been when GM had 20 EV products available, with one of them being a new PHEV Voltec CUV platform called something like a CrossVolt.
 

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But the Volt was unique - in a class by itself. The car may not last but the technology should continue. But it looks like it will die. It is a major loss of technology for all the reasons mentioned by different writers on this Blog.[/QUOTE]

Totally right. I understand now the point you were making with the initial post. I came from a 06 Toyota Tacoma access cab that I bought when I was a single guy with dirt bikes. 10 years later I have two kids, dirt bike is gone and I just want something that can get my family around town easy. I went to the dealer to check out the Silverado and they had this red volt sitting inside the door. After test driving I was blown away. Quiet, no vibration, you know the rest.

What really pushed me over the edge was the tax credit though. $7500 is two years worth of payments for free. Nobody now will buy a volt
Cause they can get the Honda or Hyundai equivalent for $7500 less. Now that I have made the leap I am more than willing to pay for electric. But if that tax credit wasn’t there to get me “over the hump”
I don’t think I would have. Driving electric is a lifestyle change.

I think Chevy and other OEMs are kidding themselves about infrastructure though. Tesla knew it was an issue and made a super charger network. Lots of investment sure. But look at their sales now. I live in Chicago. Distances are wide in this country. Charging infrastructure is non existent outside the west Coast. Tesla is the only brand you can buy being confident you could road trip in. Why would someone who is coming from an ICE suv Pay 40k for a bolt when they can’t even take a road trip in it?
 

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I’m not mad about Volt cancellation, but it is disappointing, and more importantly, indicates a lack of commitment to EVs. One might think that the Volt would have been continued until GM had a aviable alternative. GM has talked in broad generalities about their EV future but I’m extremely skeptical that there is any real commitment there. There have been no teasers, marketing, auto show reveals, press announcements at all for any new EVs. Maybe all their development and marketing is happening overseasd. I’ll believe it when I see it.
Specifically - China. At this point I think GM needs to change their name from General Motors to China Motors since that's where they claim they're making the most money.

Unless GM builds another PHEV or BEV once the infrastructure is in place, I suspect my Volt will be my last GM car:

1985 Pontiac Fiero 2M4
1986 Pontiac Fiero GT
1990 Pontiac Transport
2002 Pontiac Montana AWD
2012 Chevy Cruze ECO Manual
2012 Chevy Cruze LS Manual (my son drove this through college and then was given title to it upon graduation)
2017 Volt LT

Fortunately I have several years before I have to make the next decision.
 

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Not sure what you are mad about. You have a Volt you love it, thats great! Me too! GM is now at a HUGE disadvantage with the structure of the EV tax credits vs all the competitors who are just now getting in the game (Hyundai, Honda). Govt has made clear they are not going to expand or change how the tax credit works.

They have said they are committed to electric and have 7 models slated to be released by 2023. No car lasts forever.
So what do owners of the Volt do in the mean time? The answer is they'll jump to another company and many of them will never return to GM. This is what happened when Saturn and Pontiac were shutdown.

GM is giving up it's leadership in this market for short term profits. Mary Barra probably won't be CEO in 2023 so she won't be the one answering the question "where are your promised EVs?"
 

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... failing an incredible medical breakthrough there is no way they that they'll have a chance to get me back again because I won't be shopping for a car when I'm 95.
But if they have autonomous vehicles working in 30+ years, which is very likely, you might be in the market for one. Autonomous vehicles sound like a great solution for senior citizens!
 

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But if they have autonomous vehicles working in 30+ years, which is very likely, you might be in the market for. Autonomous vehicles sound like a great solution for senior citizens!
I thought that as well. My Dad said once "if they take my driver's licence away they may as well put the last nail in my coffin!" We didn't want him driving any more (it wasn't safe) but when he experienced driving an electric cart in West Edmonton Mall, it was a good compromise and he spent the next 10+ years driving that. A self driving car would have worked too.
 

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In the Chinese, CARB (and Quebec) systems, the max credits per vehicle is 3 to 1 in favor of BEVs.
(China's system may also in fact weaken their conventional standards.)

CARB also has a limit on the proportion of credits from PHEVs (TZEVs) which will shrink each year as the overall requirements grow .

The car market has moved away from sedan/sloped hatchbacks.
GM's US tax credits will drop in 2019Q2.
Battery prices are falling rapidly.
Volt sales have only been a few thousand per month, even with generous lease deals and rebates.
Velite 5 sales in China have been very low.
Hybrid sales have been limited.

GM has no reason to keep Hammtramck open to manufacture the Volt.
It'll probably continue to grow its manufacturing outside of the USA and maybe will import PEVs from China.
 

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One of the factors that led Marc Tarpenning and Martin Eberhart to start Tesla (Musk was an early funder) was the fallout from the discontinuance of the EV1.

The Malibu Hybrid also uses a variant of the Volts drivetrain. As far as I know, it is still in production. It wouldn't seem like too major an engineering effort to add a larger battery pack (say, the already developed one in the CT6 PHEV). Pricing would probably comparable to, or just above, todays Volt.

I think the PHEV concept will be around for a while. Even here in Silicon Valley, where BEVs are often seemingly to be on every street corner, the reality is that the vast majority of car owners still own gas cars, and are very suspicious of changing the fueling model they are used to. PHEV is a lot less scary than going totally electric.
 

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My Dad said once "if they take my driver's licence away they may as well put the last nail in my coffin!" A self driving car would have worked too.
I might need one in say another 25-30 years. By one I mean not confined to central parts of fair weather cities.
 

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But if they have autonomous vehicles working in 30+ years, which is very likely, you might be in the market for one. Autonomous vehicles sound like a great solution for senior citizens!
I'm hoping that self driving cars will be available in 10 years when I'm in my mid-70s, in 30 years I'm either dead or in a nursing home unless they also have robot nursemaids and a cure for Alzheimer's. Self driving cars will be a huge boon to people in the early to mid parts of old age when you still have all of your marbles but you don't have the same reaction times of stamina. They won't help when you are senile which I expect to be in my 90s, assuming I make it that long. My mother used to say that the problem in our family is that we live forever but we don't know it.
 

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I'm hoping that self driving cars will be available in 10 years when I'm in my mid-70s, in 30 years I'm either dead or in a nursing home unless they also have robot nursemaids and a cure for Alzheimer's. Self driving cars will be a huge boon to people in the early to mid parts of old age when you still have all of your marbles but you don't have the same reaction times of stamina. They won't help when you are senile which I expect to be in my 90s, assuming I make it that long. My mother used to say that the problem in our family is that we live forever but we don't know it.
I guess it depends on your DNA. I'm 72, can and still do what I did in my twenties, can get in and out of my TR7 with no problems, just took it down to Sacramento on a 2,200+ mile road trip, did an emergency stop last year where a friend following me said he didn't believe yo could have reactions times that quick at my age (what ever that means) and disproved the fact that you couldn't lock all four wheels on a TR7 (it has Mini brake pads). I should be good for another 15 to 20 years driving (self driving after that) as I plan on outliving my eldest Aunt's 101+ years. While we won't have ubiquitous self driving in the next few years we should after 20. It's tougher than they thought, just like the predictions of small fusion reactors in the 60's.
 

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One boon self-driving cars will provide is to re-open evening social activities to those seniors who are otherwise in full control of their faculties, but don’t like to drive after dark. I suspect that movie theaters, concert halls, restaurants, and book clubs, among others, will benefit from this.
 
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