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Right in the article the true thing here is money, "restitution for lost vehicle value."

I think some people are "butt hurt" about the VW debacle reducing the value of their truck even if they weren't involved.

Another investigation will start... yay... >.<

Can we all just go Electric now?
 

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Yet another lawsuit without any actual evidence - yet, it was allowed to become public, and dragged GM's shares down.

Guarantee this is just like the one they filed against GM for the Cruze Diesel...entirely factless and just a money grab. A member on the Cruze forum contacted the EPA who confirmed that the vehicle passed additional testing after dieselgate with flying colors.

I guarantee all diesel vehicles were tested in such a way after Dieselgate, which would make this lawsuit bull****.

GM needs to sue them for defamation, afterwards, to recover "lost market value". That would likely stop the copycat cases afterwards.
 

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Does anybody seriously believe that AFTER VW was caught cheating, GM built and sold 'cheater' diesels?
 

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Clean coal, clean diesel, clean lead, clean plutonium. I think "clean diesel" has been tainted by VW for a long time to come.
 

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Could be something like this: There are instances where diesels run and emit more emissions and pollution than they ordinarily would. For example, when headed up a steep hill under load. This is not a defeat device and it's OK so long as the manufacturer tells the EPA. I think this is the issue with MB BTW.
 

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Could be something like this: There are instances where diesels run and emit more emissions and pollution than they ordinarily would. For example, when headed up a steep hill under load. This is not a defeat device and it's OK so long as the manufacturer tells the EPA. I think this is the issue with MB BTW.
The engine control is allowed to disable certain systems like cold air EGR until the engine is up to certain temp to avoid carbon buildup and premature cat failure. I'd guess this is what will make the basis of their case. The case is false, but that doesn't mean they won't win.
 

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Clean coal, clean diesel, clean lead, clean plutonium. I think "clean diesel" has been tainted by VW for a long time to come.
A diesel engine is cleaner than a jet engine. They haven't developed a DPF or cat big enough to fit a triple 7. :D
 

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Clean coal, clean diesel, clean lead, clean plutonium. I think "clean diesel" has been tainted by VW for a long time to come.
Great! I should be able to get a good deal on a Cruze diesel. Great engine/tranny combo (IMO). I think this is the coolest car motor GM makes.

Kind of giving up hope that GM does something on Volt incentives in non-CARB states like mine.
 

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It's my understanding that the EPA allows emissions to go out of spec temporarily to protect the engine under extreme conditions. Two of the three offending scenarios (see link below) appear to fall in this category.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/articles/gms-diesel-defeat-devices-allegedly-work/

The third scenario is more worrysome. Here's what GM Inside News says:

"Far more nefariously, when the emissions system shuts off after 8 minutes of steady state driving the trucks will allegedly emit 4.5 times the legal limit."
 

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It's my understanding that the EPA allows emissions to go out of spec temporarily to protect the engine under extreme conditions. Two of the three offending scenarios (see link below) appear to fall in this category.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/articles/gms-diesel-defeat-devices-allegedly-work/

The third scenario is more worrysome. Here's what GM Inside News says:

"Far more nefariously, when the emissions system shuts off after 8 minutes of steady state driving the trucks will allegedly emit 4.5 times the legal limit."
There is a cat light off stage where the engine runs richer to get the cat up to temp.

8 minutes is not a complete cycle so the fault would show during testing.

VW put code in that would sense the car was being dyno tested as opposed to being street driven, and had separate tables and lower power output when being dyno'd.
 

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Having owned 5 of the offending tdi's and talking to someone who has driven a fixed one I understand why they did it. You can't get good performance, a low 20k price tag, good milage, and meet the emissions. The crux of the issue is high cylinder head temps are required for good milage and power, but that makes nox. Lower the nox and you get soot and poor effiency. The specifications are not easily achievable and will be the end of diesel powered vehicles. removing the dpf will give almost a 10% increase in fuel mileage. It's really a game of pick your pollutant and none is not an answer if you are going to use that fuel source.
I can't wait u till this starts hitting gas cars. They go out of spec a lot, but it's negotiated, so it's ok.
 

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well that's going to hit gm's bottom line
pretty sure the diesel pick up, had one of the highest profit margin for gm/dealers
what about the aftermarket diesel chips that let diesels spew black smoke out the exhaust, to the point of being called -rolling coal
 

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Biggest winner? Future Diesel Equinox buyers...

With enough time and money at a lab, I wouldn't be surprised if many more diesel and regular ICE vehicles would fail...The engineering behind this isn't the defeat device itself, it's the requirements that "trigger" the defeat device...As vehicles get more and more tech it could be harder and harder to detect cheating...
 

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Overzealous lawyers after more money after seeing the VW debacle?
Yes.

Real world conditions vary from standardized laboratory tests. Emissions being higher on the road is not a surprise. No doubt GM tuned their diesels specifically to meet testing requirements.

If the EPA had something on GM, we'd have heard by now. There's no evidence that GM broke the law like VW did by disabling emissions controls while on the road.
 

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well that's going to hit gm's bottom line
pretty sure the diesel pick up, had one of the highest profit margin for gm/dealers
what about the aftermarket diesel chips that let diesels spew black smoke out the exhaust, to the point of being called -rolling coal
It's not a "chip". You need to remove the pollution control devices and rewrite the programming in the PCM.
 

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Yes.

Real world conditions vary from standardized laboratory tests. Emissions being higher on the road is not a surprise. No doubt GM tuned their diesels specifically to meet testing requirements.

If the EPA had something on GM, we'd have heard by now. There's no evidence that GM broke the law like VW did by disabling emissions controls while on the road.
If you read the some the article (many exist) lawsuit CLAIMS there is evidence...I'll cherry pick from the article, no need to thank me:

1. "It said GM used at least three "defeat devices" to ensure that the trucks met federal and state emission standards"
2. "According to the lawsuit, "on-road" emissions testing conducted for the plaintiffs found that Duramax-engined trucks produced nitrogen oxide pollutants two to five times higher than allowed"
3. "Germany's Robert Bosch GmbH [ROBG.UL] was also named as a defendant for having allegedly helped develop the defeat devices, in an "unusually close" collaboration with GM."

Remember the EPA never "caught" VW, a $50K grant was given to West Virginia University to road test diesel cars emissions, that's who caught them...

Odds are other automakers have and/or are currently using defeat devices, they just may be harder to detect even when on the road...
 

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The only difference between a defeat device and an allowable change is if you negotiate ahead of time with the epa. All cars have conditions where they operate outside the allowable emission standards. Cold start and full throttle are two of the most common ones. The problem is if you run full pollution controls all the time the engines may be damaged.
Then you have older trucks like my 01 7.3 l that has no controls on it. Not even cats, all it has to pass is an opaquity test which it does easily. If there was a real desire to clean things up you would simply buy up the old vehicles and get them off the road. That would do more for air quality than squeezing the last few drops out of the new cars. Problem is that's an expensive solution.
 
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