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Hey guys,

I'm new here and considering a used 2015/2016 Spark EV. I live in Central Massachusetts and would be commuting 90 miles round trip to get to work in Somerville (Boston Area) from Worcester. I believe I would be too close for comfort with the 82-90 mile range without a charge for the Spark EV and workplace level-2 is iffy at best.

I'm thinking 10-15 minutes of DC Quick-Charging would become part of my daily drive, probably on my way back home. Does the liquid-cooled battery system make this routine less stressful in the long term when it comes to battery wear/life or do I really need to buy something closer to a Bolt or Tesla Model 3 with such a long commute?

I also would have limited L-1 or L-2 trickle charging when I leave my car in the lot during those cold New-England days in January and February.

Thanks,

SmokeyPete
 

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I'd go with a Bolt, Volt, or Tesla in this case. A good ol' Boston winter will knock that 90 mile range down to about 70 miles.
 

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I'd go with a Bolt, Volt, or Tesla in this case. A good ol' Boston winter will knock that 90 mile range down to about 70 miles.
I'd have to agree there's no margin for error there. Traffic, detour, weather, charger at work is broken, etc. You can't make the round trip.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'd have to agree there's no margin for error there. Traffic, detour, weather, charger at work is broken, etc. You can't make the round trip.
I think people are misunderstanding my primary question.
Will the liquid battery cooling system make daily DC Fast Charging an acceptable practice in a Spark EV where it would not be okay in an air-cooled system like the Leaf, E-Golf etc.
 

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I think people are misunderstanding my primary question.
Will the liquid battery cooling system make daily DC Fast Charging an acceptable practice in a Spark EV where it would not be okay in an air-cooled system like the Leaf, E-Golf etc.
Of course liquid battery cooling systems will make your DC charging WAY better than air-cooled.

A better concern would be how low you are taking the State Of Charge (SOC) and what you are charging up to. This will reduce the battery life. The below will give you a better idea of how battery life and SOC charging levels work.
___

From the following article on batteries "similar" to what Tesla is using.

Divide those number of cycles by 365 or 300 or whatever number of days per year you want. Pretty long.

"500 cycles? But that’s (relatively) low! Yes. But what is not shown on the spec sheet is that when you partially charge and discharge, degradation of the battery capacity is reduced. Thus, you can do over
40,000 charge/discharge cycles when going from 30% SOC to 70% SOC only. Or over
35,000 charge/discharge cycles from 20% to 80%;
28,000 cycles from 10% to 90%;
15,000 cycles from 8% to 92%,
07,500 cycles from 6% to 94%, and the capacity reduction goes faster and faster, finally reaching
00,500 cycles when recharging from 0% SOC to 100%. SOC"

http://blog.evandmore.com/lets-talk-about-the-panasonic-ncr18650b/
 

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To answer the question - yes the Spark EV will handle the DCFC just fine. It is designed to be used in short bursts and will not impact battery life. So you can absolutely make the trek in optimal conditions.

The biggest consideration will be the weather. In cold temps, the range drops considerably. If you are doing highway driving you may only get 60-70 miles (less if you are a speed demon). Factor in that the charging station you are planning to use may not be available/broken and you may find yourself in a precarious position.

The used Spark EV pricing is very tempting. I have seen some listing for under $10k. To be honest though, I'd probably recommend going with a Bolt or minimally a BMW i3 with the range extender if you want an all-electric commute and some peace of mind that you won't be stranded.
 

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I think my biggest concern is whether you can still make the trip if the DCFC is broken, in use, or ICE'd. Do you have other solid charging options? I'd never want to have to depend on a charger other than the one at my house. I also agree that in winter, you may be struggling to get one way on your commute if you like to be warm. I've had my range in the winter, when it's in the teen's out, drop to 20 miles on battery rather than the normal 40-50 that I can squeeze out of my Gen 1 Volt in the summer.
 

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I agree that 10-15 minutes of DCFC daily on a liquid cooled battery pack is nothing to be concerned about. However, I also agree with those who think you are way overestimating the margin you need. Remember that your max range is reduced by a noticeable percentage for each of these: freeway speeds, aggressive driving, cold weather, wet or snowy road surface, gaining elevation, stuck in traffic, and age of the battery pack. If you combine several of those factors on any given day, the rage hit is significant.

I would only consider what you are doing if I had a reliable way to fully charge at work every day. You will probably need that during the winter, at least. And the offsite DCFC should be your backup plan for that rare case when you can't charge at work due to problems with the charging equipment or ICE vehicles parked in front of it. And remember that any particular DCFC, on any give day, may or may not be unoccupied or even working. It could even be decommissioned.

If you don't have that charging opportunity, then you could restrict using the Spark to good weather only, and/or you should accept that you will often be making major adjustments to your daily schedule (a lot more than 10-15 minutes) to plan around your charging needs. I think most people would get tired of that quickly.
 

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Yes, the car is capable of daily DCFC safely. Yes, you definitely want a real battery TMS for daily DCFC. No, I wouldn't buy a battery only car that I expected to have to DCFC to complete my commute every day. Especially if there are only one or two places you can charge on the commute.

A used i3 REx might be a good choice here - it might still need the daily DCFC to not burn gas, but you won't be stranded if something goes wrong - otherwise you really need one of the newer EVs with ~150+ mile rated range, or an EREV/PHEV and accept you'll burn some gas every day.
 
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I have driven in the Boston and Cambridge area in 1999, and I believe traffic may be worse now, so I recommend moving closer to work, or get a job closer to your home. It will save many years of your life and thousands of dollars of your traveling expenses, even with an EV.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I have driven in the Boston and Cambridge area in 1999, and I believe traffic may be worse now, so I recommend moving closer to work, or get a job closer to your home. It will save many years of your life and thousands of dollars of your traveling expenses, even with an EV.
Perhaps if I move closer to Cambridge and Boston I won't have to worry about installing a Level-2 charger in my garage
since I wont be able to afford a garage if the first place. :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Of course liquid battery cooling systems will make your DC charging WAY better than air-cooled.

A better concern would be how low you are taking the State Of Charge (SOC) and what you are charging up to. This will reduce the battery life. The below will give you a better idea of how battery life and SOC charging levels work.
___

From the following article on batteries "similar" to what Tesla is using.

Divide those number of cycles by 365 or 300 or whatever number of days per year you want. Pretty long.

"500 cycles? But that’s (relatively) low! Yes. But what is not shown on the spec sheet is that when you partially charge and discharge, degradation of the battery capacity is reduced. Thus, you can do over
40,000 charge/discharge cycles when going from 30% SOC to 70% SOC only. Or over
35,000 charge/discharge cycles from 20% to 80%;
28,000 cycles from 10% to 90%;
15,000 cycles from 8% to 92%,
07,500 cycles from 6% to 94%, and the capacity reduction goes faster and faster, finally reaching
00,500 cycles when recharging from 0% SOC to 100%. SOC"

http://blog.evandmore.com/lets-talk-about-the-panasonic-ncr18650b/
Thanks Scott and everyone else. This information on SOC (State of Charge) was exactly what I was looking for.
 

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Thanks Scott and everyone else. This information on SOC (State of Charge) was exactly what I was looking for.
You are most welcome! Glad I went and located that info that I had 'somewhere'. Best of luck.
 
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