[JoeReal]

Please somebody write to convince these Condo Managers in Canada! A Volt doesn't eat much power as the block heaters used and there's no need to install special outlet for the Chevy Volt as it would be fine with ordinary household outlets. A cheap weather proof meter from Amazon should do a good job of keeping tabs on electricity used. And of course, inviting a third party charging station by the likes of ChargePoint would be super.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/condo-electric-car-hydro-ottawa-1.4226606

 

[Off Oil]

I paid a hefty amount to have charging installed at my parking space. It's not unreasonable to require the owner to pay the associated costs. The best way to address this is through the building codes; require all new condo construction to have a minimum of an L1 outlet at each space metered to the unit.

 

[jcanoe]

I paid a hefty amount to have charging installed at my parking space. It's not unreasonable to require the owner to pay the associated costs. The best way to address this is through the building codes; require all new condo construction to have a minimum of an L1 outlet at each space metered to the unit.

I have lived in a condo, was a member of the Board of Directors for many years too. I don't see that happening. The best scenario might be if a forward thinking condo board designated a cluster of parking spaces for EV charging, partnered with a commercial charging network and put in a limited number of metered Level II EV chargers with the option of installing additional Level II charging stations if there is sufficient demand. Fast forward a few years and a large community, say one with a club house facility, might similarly install a couple of metered Level 3 charging stations at the club house.

 

[jcanoe]

If you read the article it states the Volt owner never read the Bylaws of the Condominium. Bylaws are very difficult to change once they are adopted by a community.

Advances in technology are frequently at odds with existing condominium bylaws and rules, i.e. satellite dish technology has gotten smaller and cheaper but generally satellite dishes cannot be attached to the roof or any part of the common element of a condominium structure or grounds.

The articles of incorporation, bylaws and general rules of the condominium must be in accordance with local fire and safety regulations. I.e., if the bylaws prohibit grilling inside the condominium unit or on the balcony of the condominium unit this is probably aligned with the local fire code. However, the board of directors could designate a grilling area (provided it was not too close to any structure) and then residents would be able use a grill that the condo had installed at that location.

In a similar way, the Board of Directors, which generally controls the parking lots and parking spaces, could elect to designate a cluster of parking spaces for EV charging. The Board could install EV charging stations or contract with a commercial charging network to install the charging stations. The Board would have to draft, circulate for comment and then adopt a new rule regarding use of the EV parking spaces, provide signage and notify all residents of the change.

 

[rmay635703]

I've always figured Condos have no reason to exist and your a chump to live in one.

I voice my opinion by not living in such a place

 

[Mister Dave]

If you read the article it states the Volt owner never read the Bylaws of the Condominium. Bylaws are very difficult to change once they are adopted by a community.

Advances in technology are frequently at odds with existing condominium bylaws and rules, i.e. satellite dish technology has gotten smaller and cheaper but generally satellite dishes cannot be attached to the roof or any part of the common element of a condominium structure or grounds.

The articles of incorporation, bylaws and general rules of the condominium must be in accordance with local fire and safety regulations. I.e., if the bylaws prohibit grilling inside the condominium unit or on the balcony of the condominium unit this is probably aligned with the local fire code. However, the board of directors could designate a grilling area (provided it was not too close to any structure) and then residents would be able use a grill that the condo had installed at that location.

In a similar way, the Board of Directors, which generally controls the parking lots and parking spaces, could elect to designate a cluster of parking spaces for EV charging. The Board could install EV charging stations or contract with a commercial charging network to install the charging stations. The Board would have to draft, circulate for comment and then adopt a new rule regarding use of the EV parking spaces, provide signage and notify all residents of the change.

This is all dependent on state/province laws. Illinois is not that strict and yes bylaws start with state law and expand from there. I'm not familiar with laws in your state, or where the young lady lives and don't have time to read all of it so any commentary on the issue at hand is useless. I do have to be familiar with my state's Condominium Property Act as an HOA president.

Please somebody write to the stupid Condo Managers in Canada!

In my experience this type of activity is seen as harassment and is counter-productive. Best method is to work within the system. It helps if you get yourself elected to the board of managers, or at least get a manager or two on your side of the issue.

 

[Upper5Percent]

Please somebody write to the stupid Condo Managers in Canada! A Volt doesn't eat much power as the block heaters used.

Possibly, but not the whole story when dealing with block heaters...

http://www.mychevroletvolt.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-a-chevy-volt
Chevy Volt
Example 2 – Electricity: You drive 1,000 miles per month, your car (The Chevy Volt) gets 2.7 miles per kilowatt hour used (EPA estimated average), and you pay $0.12 per kilowatt-hour (national average) That means:

1000 miles / 2.7 miles per kilowatt-hour = 370 Kilowatt-Hours

And

370 Kilowatt-Hours * $0.12 Per Kilowatt Hour = $44.44 in Electricity per month.

http://blog.gvea.com/wordpress/?p=727
Block Heater
If you did plug it in all of the time, your electric bill would skyrocket. For example, if you plugged in the average car (1,000 watt load) for 10 hours each night, the monthly electric cost would be about $60. Just two hours would run $12 per month.

A car really only needs about two hours of plugged in time to warm up. Also, typically, it takes about two hours for a car to cool down after it has been running. So, if you plan to drive your car again within two hours, there is no need to plug in. When the temperature reaches 20 below or colder, you may want to increase the amount of time your car is plugged in, but generally not more than four hours.

GVEA recommends purchasing a vehicle plug-in timer. Instead of waking up two hours early to plug in your car, let the timer do it for you.

Worse case scenario: 4 hours a night for the month
30 days * 4 hours/day = 120 hours
120 Kilowatt-Hours * $0.12 Per Kilowatt Hour = $14.40 in Electricity per month.

 

[srmarti]

I've always figured Condos have no reason to exist and your a chump to live in one.

I voice my opinion by not living in such a place

The default setting plugging in is 8 amps. So why aren't they letting her charge her car? Do they bylaws specifically state she can't plug her car in? The outlet is already there. Why have outlets at the parking space if they're not to be used? If more cars plug in, they can separate the circuits for the outlets. They don't necessarily have to have L2 stations at $5K per station installed.

 

[jcanoe]

The default setting plugging in is 8 amps. So why aren't they letting her charge her car? Do they bylaws specifically state she can't plug her car in? The outlet is already there. Why have outlets at the parking space if they're not to be used? If more cars plug in, they can separate the circuits for the outlets. They don't necessarily have to have L2 stations at $5K per station installed.

The outlets were installed for engine block heaters (these may require 1000 watts) but not for Level I EVSE (900 - 1400 watts). The article states that if they permitted the woman plug in her EVSE then anyone else could also plug in and this could overload the existing 15 amp circuit. I don't have any experience with block heaters. I have read that block heaters can be set to run on a timer, depending on how cold it gets the engine block heater may not need to be run all night, maybe just 2 to 4 hours. Do block heaters generally have a built-in thermostat to shut off at a preset temperature or will the block heater run as long as they are plugged in?

Yes, the article states that charging an EV is specifically noted as being against the existing bylaws. "They cut off the power and sent us an email informing us that it is against the bylaws to charge electric vehicles," she said, explaining her specific condo bylaw only allows block heaters to use the posts."

The woman might be able to make a case for plugging in, using a Level I EVSE using the socket on the outdoor post that is intended for plugging in an engine block heater. The Volt will condition (heat or cool) the traction battery when the Volt is plugged in anytime the battery temperature drops too low or gets too high. In winter the Volt's battery conditioning functions similar to the way a block heater works on a conventional vehicle. If she agrees to stick to 8 amp charging this would be similar to the load of a 1000 watt block heater.

 

[flyingsherpa]

I've always figured Condos have no reason to exist and your a chump to live in one.

I voice my opinion by not living in such a place

That's a pretty broad brush there. Real estate varies widely in different markets. I've found myself looking at condos because I can afford to get in one, but would have trouble with a house. It's also lower maintenance (nice if you have health issues like me), yet allows me to build some equity and change my living space to suit my needs (which an apartment doesn't allow). Really, there are pros and cons to any living situation, and some people condos make sense...

 

[rmay635703]

The default setting plugging in is 8 amps. So why aren't they letting her charge her car? Do they bylaws specifically state she can't plug her car in? The outlet is already there. Why have outlets at the parking space if they're not to be used? If more cars plug in, they can separate the circuits for the outlets. They don't necessarily have to have L2 stations at $5K per station installed.

Agree 100%

Here at work the issue is settled but there are worn out diesels that plug in the EV spots year round so their truck will start easier.

My experience with communities that have a housing or in this case condo board, is that people in the decision making positions behave emotionally
But the problem is that it takes a lot of work to fight them even if they are wrong or evening doing something illegal

Also they may reverse former decisions after the board changes, the sad part is that it's often easier to deal with a landlord than an association.

In my mind not worth the hassle

As always, moderate your moderation

 

[obermd]

This is all dependent on state/province laws. Illinois is not that strict and yes bylaws start with state law and expand from there. I'm not familiar with laws in your state, or where the young lady lives and don't have time to read all of it so any commentary on the issue at hand is useless. I do have to be familiar with my state's Condominium Property Act as an HOA president.



In my experience this type of activity is seen as harassment and is counter-productive. Best method is to work within the system. It helps if you get yourself elected to the board of managers, or at least get a manager or two on your side of the issue.

While I agree working within the system is the best way she did do this after her error was pointed out and they shut her out and won't even take it to the property owners. Since Ontario is revising their statutes on Condos her next best bet will be to work within that system to get the statutes revised go prevent her condo board from not even putting it up to the individual property owners. With that in place she will have a legal leg to stand on should the board continue to refuse to even ask the owners about this issue. Right now she has no recourse other than to move, preferably to a home she controls.

 

[Mister Dave]

While I agree working within the system is the best way she did do this after her error was pointed out and they shut her out and won't even take it to the property owners. Since Ontario is revising their statutes on Condos her next best bet will be to work within that system to get the statutes revised go prevent her condo board from not even putting it up to the individual property owners. With that in place she will have a legal leg to stand on should the board continue to refuse to even ask the owners about this issue. Right now she has no recourse other than to move, preferably to a home she controls.

Freedom of choice - glad you pointed that out. She lives in a condo, not a prison.

I'm not big on gubmint intervention in edge case matters. They have a habit of creating unintended consequences. I tend to equate it with smashing a delicate negotiation with a sledgehammer. "Bull in a china shop" is hackneyed, so.......

 

[canehdian]

I paid a hefty amount to have charging installed at my parking space. It's not unreasonable to require the owner to pay the associated costs. The best way to address this is through the building codes; require all new condo construction to have a minimum of an L1 outlet at each space metered to the unit.

Indeed, it's not unreasonable for the owner to pay the associated costs.
What is unreasonable is not allowing her to use the facilities that are already there (and sitting unused currently), and charge for them accordingly (install a 120V meter on that outlet, at her cost, and bill the monthly value or do a flat rate max-possible-value at a full charge every day).

If the outlets were in use 24/7 for block heaters, then I'd understand requiring her to pay thousands to have another line brought in. But the outlet is not being used at all; let her use it and pay for the electricity consumed.

And likewise in the winter they must allow her to plug in if the by law states they're for plugging in cars to warm in the winter. Volt does this through the EVSE. At least she can use that loophole for 4 months of the year - and for free.

 

[srmarti]

While I agree working within the system is the best way she did do this after her error was pointed out and they shut her out and won't even take it to the property owners. Since Ontario is revising their statutes on Condos her next best bet will be to work within that system to get the statutes revised go prevent her condo board from not even putting it up to the individual property owners. With that in place she will have a legal leg to stand on should the board continue to refuse to even ask the owners about this issue. Right now she has no recourse other than to move, preferably to a home she controls.

It might not even have occurred to her that she couldn't use the outlet right in front of her parking space. Some EV'ers ( not me ) figure most any unlocked electrical outlet is fair game. If she can't charge the car, I think she's owned an explanation as to what those outlets are there for in the first place. Unlikely the installation was just for looks. If the intent was for block heaters, then she should be allowed to charge and consume the amount of electricity that a block heater consumes. The electricity is the same whether it charges a battery or is just turned into heat. You have to pick your battles, but I don't like stubborn and stupid. Get me P.O.'d about something stupid and the very least is you'll know what I think of the situation.

 

[Off Oil]

I have lived in a condo, was a member of the Board of Directors for many years too. I don't see that happening. The best scenario might be if a forward thinking condo board designated a cluster of parking spaces for EV charging, partnered with a commercial charging network and put in a limited number of metered Level II EV chargers with the option of installing additional Level II charging stations if there is sufficient demand. Fast forward a few years and a large community, say one with a club house facility, might similarly install a couple of metered Level 3 charging stations at the club house.

I was on the Board for several years, and had obtained quotes from Chargepoint and a few others for a potential install, to coincide with the parking lot renovation. The costs for the commercial networked and RFID stations are not inexpensive, so you would have to charge enough to be revenue neutral. In addition once enough people have an EV, you have the congestion issue. My conclusion has changed as a result, which is why I believe an outlet at the owners spot is the logical way to go.

 

[rdunniii]

If you read the article it states the Volt owner never read the Bylaws of the Condominium. Bylaws are very difficult to change once they are adopted by a community.

The CC&Rs are written by the developer to the advantage of the developer. Once the developer is out of the picture or controlling the association the owners are free to change the CC&Rs to their advantage. The first thing owners should do once they have control of the association is get rid of cumulative voting, quorums and proxy voting which were instituted by the developer to maintain control. This allows the owners who care to be in charge without requiring the approval of those who do not.

Advances in technology are frequently at odds with existing condominium bylaws and rules, i.e. satellite dish technology has gotten smaller and cheaper but generally satellite dishes cannot be attached to the roof or any part of the common element of a condominium structure or grounds.

Federal law prohibits associations from banning antennae. They can however write guidelines for installation to minimize their visibility.

In a similar way, the Board of Directors, which generally controls the parking lots and parking spaces, could elect to designate a cluster of parking spaces for EV charging. The Board could install EV charging stations or contract with a commercial charging network to install the charging stations. The Board would have to draft, circulate for comment and then adopt a new rule regarding use of the EV parking spaces, provide signage and notify all residents of the change.

This really depends on the current wording of the CC&Rs. Board members have no authority to allow implicit modification to the CC&Rs. They should be responsible for initiating their change. State and local laws regarding Common Interest Developments change all the time and yet CC&Rs very rarely are kept up to date with them. This can set up conflicts that are very difficult to resolve.

 

[MaxSmart]

I own a parking space in a garage in Chicago, most spots have outlets but mine does not. Asked about getting one installed so I could charge. Building manager had heard that electric cars cost like $50 a day to charge, so need to install a meter to charge me for the electricity. Manager got a quote from electricians for $11,000!!!

 

[Taser54]

Seems that she never had legal access to charging. Seems the so!ution is to be elected to the condo board and lead the charge to change things. Or move.

 

[Taser54]

It might not even have occurred to her that she couldn't use the outlet right in front of her parking space. Some EV'ers ( not me ) figure most any unlocked electrical outlet is fair game. If she can't charge the car, I think she's owned an explanation as to what those outlets are there for in the first place. Unlikely the installation was just for looks. If the intent was for block heaters, then she should be allowed to charge and consume the amount of electricity that a block heater consumes. The electricity is the same whether it charges a battery or is just turned into heat. You have to pick your battles, but I don't like stubborn and stupid. Get me P.O.'d about something stupid and the very least is you'll know what I think of the situation.

The board already addressed this. The outlets are 15A and one outlet serves two spaces. Two block heaters can be plugged in at the same time. That is what the outlets are for. Two EVs cannot charge at the same time so no EVs can charge from an outlet.