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Discussion Starter #1
Please see my original thread dated 2/9/2016 for details. In short, after an electrician wired a 240V outlet (NEMA 14-30R) to acommodate my Clipper Creek LCS-20P L2 EVSE, I got sporadic "ground faults". They always ocurred between 7-9 AM, and could never be reproduced, on purpose. The company, and several posters suggested it was our Keurig-style coffee maker generating line noise. I moved the Keurig to another circuit, tried using a surge protector, and installed a new receptacle. Still got sporadic "ground faults".

Based on poster suggestions, I had the electrician install a new ground rod, directly beneath the 240V outlet. After that the "ground faults" occurred nearly every AM, instead of every 3rd or 4th day, and once or twice in the afternoon. In other words, it got worse.

I then got electrician #2 to have a look at the sub-panel, and 240V outlet. She thought the ground setup was OK, the panel was "messy", but not dangerous, and unlikely to be the source of the "ground faults". At the suggestion of another poster, I asked electrician #2 to connect the grounds from the 240V receptacle and box ONLY to the new ground rod. (Initially, the box was grounded to a neighboring 110V outlet, then to the sub-panel). Voila, NO MORE GROUND FAULTS with the 240V outlet grounded directly to a ground rod!

My conclusion, in part from discussions with Clipper Creek staff: the LCS 20P is overly sensitive to "whatever" line noise is in my wiring. In 40 yrs. I have never had any other equipment or appliance cause this type of issue. I believe it is a combination of the Clipper Creek device, and the unique properties of our house electrical setup. Clipper Creek should advise users, that they may experience sporadic "ground faults", as have been reported by several other forum posters. It can be solved, but with potential additional cost to the owner for electrician services. Otherwise the unit works fine, completes a full charge in 4 hours, 15 minutes, does not feel hot, and does not show any faults.

For those of you who made constructive suggestions in the past, I thank you. For those of you who felt I was wasting your time, please skip this thread.
 

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So, in conclusion, there is a ground fault and this 'fix' bypassed the problem.

When I rewire old houses, I find all kinds of GFCI work-arounds such as outlets grounded to nearby water pipes directly. Yeah, the GFCI technically works, but, is it really correct?
 

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Glad to hear it finally worked out for you. Those type of things can cause you to pull your hair out.

Clipper Creek should advise users, that they may experience sporadic "ground faults"

Not sure I would lay blame on clipper creek by saying they should advise potential owners of an issue like yours since you readily admit that the ground in your house was the problem then once addressed then the problem went away.

I charged at least a dozen times at various times of the day with washers, dryers, dish washers, etc. and have not had any issues with the LCS-20p in 6 months of use, but then again my house was only built about 16 years ago. So in my mind, it is not overly sensitive but that is only my experience. And no i dont work for them but found them to be a responsive and helpful company when i was looking for a device. Again glad it worked out for you.
 

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Goofi,

Is the nearby 120 V receptacle sourced from the same subpanel as the the 240 V receptacle? In other words are the breakers both in the subpanel?

Glad to hear its working reliably!
 

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Fwiw, I would rather have an over sensitive high voltage appliance than one that heats up and burns the house down. I have no problems with my identical unit.
 

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Goofiness just to be clear is it the Clipper Creek giving a ground fault or a GFCI up stream of the Clipper Creek?

A GFCI works by measuring the current in the 2 hot lines on 240volts in the USA, if there is a difference it is assumed this current is going down either the ground conductor or actually to the ground and opens both hots. Most GFCIs also incorporate an over current breaker as well.

It is very bad practise to have more than one ground rod as this can cause ground loop currents and is dangerous if lighting hits the house or close as high voltages/currents can occur between the rods, it also increases the resistance of the return path for current in a fault situation. i.e. A hot conductor shorting to ground or the metal case of a device the system is then totally reliant on the GFCI not the over current opening of a fuse or breaker. There are max resistance tables for the ground returns which is measured between the neutral and ground if to high breakers open to slow which can endanger life in fault situation. The best grounding system is to connect the neutral as it comes in the house and before a company fuse & meter to the ground bus bar on the board this can also be connected to an earth rod. No other connection of the ground to neutral should made and all grounds should come back to the ground bus at the board. I believe wiring the ground connection just to an earth rod may be against code in the US. I would be very concerned I believe you need an electrician who is more than just a wireman and understands how it all works.

Retired HP Computer power & Environment Specialist.
 

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It's a problem with the Clipper Creek unit. I've detailed my woes, too, and my system is straightforward, recently installed, and checked out.

The 2nd dedicated ground rod isn't a solution for most people. There's a potential for ground loop problems with the neutral going to the main grounding system.

@Raechris, voltage doesn't heat things up, current does. The LCS isn't even being used to charge during these "events", so I'll chock it up to poor engineering.

One of these days I'll get in touch with Clipper Creek to discuss this. It doesn't occur often enough for me to remember ;-)

My main take-away from the other thread is this: no other EVSE seems to be reporting issues, so the likelihood of the issue being the LCS is high.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Hi folks,

Thanks for the input. Since I am electrically challenged, I cannot comment on any of the technical observations, comments, etc. Just to clarify:

1. If GFCIs are those receptacles that one can buy at HD, to install in the kitchen and bathroom, then, no, there are no GFCIs in the circuits currently used by the CC.
2. For a couple weeks, I used my OEM 120V system, and connected to a GFCI outlet on a nearby outside wall that did not get power from the sub-panel. No faults were ever generated.
3. Yes, both the 120V and 240V outlets are supplied from the same sub-panel.
4. Ground faults were produced even when the L2 was NOT connected to the Volt. I left it connected, virtually 24/7, in order to notice the audible alarm from the Volt, and get "charge interrupt" notices from OnStar, by text.
5. Both the L2 and OEM unit reset themselves after 5-15 minutes, with no intervention on my part
5. I don't consider either of the electricians that worked on this project to be ignorant novices, like me. They are experienced, licensed electricians. Neither of them identified any "problems" with the grounding system. They changed the wiring to try to solve a problem. I am not losing any sleep.
 

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I had a similar problem. I fixed it by running an actual wire for ground to the sub-panel (inside the conduit), instead of using the conduit as ground. I suspect the resistance was too high on the ground with the long wire run from the main box to the sub-panel. I'm wonder if the CC performs some kind of ground test that this setup was failing.
 

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I had sporadic ground faults with my Siemens 240v unit for two years until my 2014 Volt stopped charging from any circuit (240v or 120v) anywhere.

Chevy dealer replaced the J-1772 connector on the car. No problems since.
 

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Having a similar issue with my LCS-25P Clipper Creek. It just started. In garage, I will hit remote start to get things warmed up before leaving, and last two mornings, the power fault light came on and charging stopped. Car beeped several times until I hit unlock on remote. Red "power fault" light was on charger. I turned breaker off and on, that cleared light. Charged normally both times before fault showed up when pre-conditioning. I had done this before with no issue.
I presume I should start by checking all ground connections in box and panel are tight? Any other thoughts? Thanks
OOPS, just noticed I'm in Get 2 forum, sorry.
 

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I apologize for bumping old threads, but this is actually one of the top results for "Clipper Creek ground fault" on Google :)

I bought an LCS-20P to replace the stock L1 EVSE on my previous Volt a while ago, and its just been a constant battle with ground faults with it. Besides the initial ~$400 purchase, I've paid like 2-300 in electrician fees to try and sort it out. 3 different electricians inspected the NEW conduit/wiring/sub-panel and main panel in my house and could find no explanation. None of my other garage equipment like my TIG welders, etc. ever have any issues either.

In short: the thing ground faulted randomly OR it would go into ground fault and STAY there. No amount of power cycling it would help in that latter scenario, and it would just "clear up" on its own eventually. Clipper Creek, to their credit I guess, sent me two replacments and they all did it.

I more/less lived with this on my Gen1 Volt since I had a ICE "plan B". When the lease was up, I traded it in for a LEAF..... and there is no plan B. After waking up to find my car had NOT charged a couple times (and missed work because of it....) something had to be done.

I replaced it with a ChargePoint I got on sale, and I do not condone any particular brand. After switching to this last month I've had *zero* issues and I'm going to put my LCS-20P up for sale on eBay. I also brought over a friend of mines GE (discontinued now) L2 charger and it had *zero* issues.

So in closing: I agree with the OP, the CC LCS-20P (no idea on their other models) is oversensitive and it makes it basically totally unusable for a pure EV owner in my situation. The PTO time I had to take because I couldn't make it to work alone negated any savings on it over a "better" EVSE.
 

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I experienced ground faults with my LCS-20P that were due to a plug in leaf blower. Clipper Creek was very responsive, explained that some appliances put out excessive noise on the ground connection, this can trigger the ground fault sensor on the LCS EVSE. The LCS-20 will reset after approx. 17 minutes so it has not been a problem. I know the cause of the ground fault and that it will self-clear after a short while. My next leaf blower will have a battery.
 

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I apologize for bumping old threads, but this is actually one of the top results for "Clipper Creek ground fault" on Google :)

I bought an LCS-20P to replace the stock L1 EVSE on my previous Volt a while ago, and its just been a constant battle with ground faults with it. Besides the initial ~$400 purchase, I've paid like 2-300 in electrician fees to try and sort it out. 3 different electricians inspected the NEW conduit/wiring/sub-panel and main panel in my house and could find no explanation. None of my other garage equipment like my TIG welders, etc. ever have any issues either.

In short: the thing ground faulted randomly OR it would go into ground fault and STAY there. No amount of power cycling it would help in that latter scenario, and it would just "clear up" on its own eventually. Clipper Creek, to their credit I guess, sent me two replacments and they all did it.

I more/less lived with this on my Gen1 Volt since I had a ICE "plan B". When the lease was up, I traded it in for a LEAF..... and there is no plan B. After waking up to find my car had NOT charged a couple times (and missed work because of it....) something had to be done.

I replaced it with a ChargePoint I got on sale, and I do not condone any particular brand. After switching to this last month I've had *zero* issues and I'm going to put my LCS-20P up for sale on eBay. I also brought over a friend of mines GE (discontinued now) L2 charger and it had *zero* issues.

So in closing: I agree with the OP, the CC LCS-20P (no idea on their other models) is oversensitive and it makes it basically totally unusable for a pure EV owner in my situation. The PTO time I had to take because I couldn't make it to work alone negated any savings on it over a "better" EVSE.
Electrician I used called his senior and he said the ground fault errors on high end EVSEs were caused by echos on the ground, to wire a real ground wire and not just tie it into the conduit/plumbing. This instantly fixed my problem.

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk
 
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