[drakaz]

I can't seem to find such DYI topic, does anyone ever tried to check if Gen2 battery would fit Gen2? Connections seemed identical. Does anyone have dimensions of these batteries cell blocks?

 

[tofelec]

hi,not the same connections on te top of battery...

 

[llninja]

I can't seem to find such DYI topic, does anyone ever tried to check if Gen2 battery would fit Gen2? Connections seemed identical. Does anyone have dimensions of these batteries cell blocks?

Of course a gen 2 battery would fit a gen 2. But I think your best bet would be to put a 2015 gen1 battery into a 2011-12 gen1 to gain a few miles of range. If you already have a 2015, then that’s all the range you’re gonna get.

 

[PrivatePilot]

But I think your best bet would be to put a 2015 gen1 battery into a 2011-12 gen1 to gain a few miles of range. If you already have a 2015, then that’s all the range you’re gonna get.

I don't believe anyone has ever actually done this and confirmed if the early Gen1's actually recognize and utilize the increased capacity of the latter gen1 batteries.

 

[El Dobro]

Besides the size difference, I would imagine some hacking would be involved to get the car to recognize the different batteries.

 

[Norton]

How much is another ~13 miles worth? It would never have a pay back in gas savings.
If you want more EV range buy a BEV!

Now with my little S-Box BEV people always ask "How much to replace the battery?".

I reply, "When do I replace the battery? When it loses 10% capacity? 20% , 40%?

Some are thinking old school lead acid car batteries where you come out one morning and it is DEAD.

But it a long, slow trudge down 'Degradation' lane. (But no Qikky Stops or Jiffy Changes along the way!!!)

I'll still love and use this little EV hot rod even when it's a 45 mile range BEV. (There are 15 DCFC stations in the metro).

Still, it's a bad car. Don't buy one. I need the prices to go down more so I can buy a second one !

 

[llninja]

I don't believe anyone has ever actually done this and confirmed if the early Gen1's actually recognize and utilize the increased capacity of the latter gen1 batteries.

IRRC there have been folks with a 2012 who got a newer battery replacement. The computers on the batteries should interface just fine.

Here’s a discussion earlier this year about this
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread...olt-battery-fit&highlight=Battery+replacement

 

[tofelec]

ampera 99(from netherlands) put a 2015 batterypack in a 2012 volt,seems ok

you need to perform the hybrid/ev capacity learn en put in the right hex code from the battery pack.

ampera99 deed it with vcx nano et sps subscription

(sorry for my bad englisch,i m belgian)

 

[srmarti]

Topic has been brought up before. GM says no. If done it's not going to be a simple bolt in. Different cell count, software, size, etc.

 

[freshcut]

There has been talk about a Gen 2 battery swap but I believe the final word was that it will not be possible due to differences in not only the wiring connectors but also the carrier that the Gen 2 battery uses. I believe it was stated that although the battery packs between the Gen 1 and 2 look similar there exist a number of differences preventing a direct bolt on experience. I would take that to read the bolt holes likely won't line up correctly for the Gen 2 battery and perhaps some structure differences preventing the battery to fully seat into the opening for the battery pack.

My question however is if in the future there will be a need for a company to rebuild battery packs. Perhaps if that becomes a reality one could use newer cells that are physically similar to the Gen 1 cells but with added capacity. However I suspect that too would result in much needed programming to utilize any additional capacity since the vehicles onboard computers would need to be reprogrammed to recognize the increased capacity since they're expecting a battery pack with 16-17kW depending on MY.

I think for simplicity the best one could currently hope for to gain more range from existing pack would be to find one out of a '15 and reprogram to accept the larger pack. This would likely be the easiest and least invasive way.

 

[Bill Step]

Topic has been brought up before. GM says no. If done it's not going to be a simple bolt in. Different cell count, software, size, etc.

I looked into it and don't think it will work out w/o inside software mods to the drive and battery modules.

 

[mikeg3]

The posters on this thread believe that a 2011 Volt would have to "learn" that a 2015 battery has more capacity. I don't see why.

As a battery discharges, the electronics monitor it, probably through the voltage. Every mile, it's a different battery. A 2015 battery would go through the same stages of discharge, just more slowly.

However, there is supposed to be logic that switches cell groups offline in sequence to prolong battery life. If that logic is not in the battery itself, that interface may be different for different batteries..

 

[somms]

The posters on this thread believe that a 2011 Volt would have to "learn" that a 2015 battery has more capacity. I don't see why.

As a battery discharges, the electronics monitor it, probably through the voltage. Every mile, it's a different battery. A 2015 battery would go through the same stages of discharge, just more slowly.

However, there is supposed to be logic that switches cell groups offline in sequence to prolong battery life. If that logic is not in the battery itself, that interface may be different for different batteries..

Battery Pack Capacity learn is an GDS2 procedure the service manual calls for following battery pack replacement or repair. Running this command via GDS2 causes the HPCM2 to immediately reset the stored Battery Pack Capacity hex code and then re-learn the replacement capacity. If a previous battery pack section had failed and the battery pack capacity had been diminished, running this command would allow the Volt to 'regain' any loss capacity.

 

[mikeg3]

Battery Pack Capacity learn is an GDS2 procedure the service manual calls for following battery pack replacement or repair. Running this command via GDS2 causes the HPCM2 to immediately reset the stored Battery Pack Capacity hex code and then re-learn the replacement capacity. If a previous battery pack section had failed and the battery pack capacity had been diminished, running this command would allow the Volt to 'regain' any loss capacity.

How much of that code supports the dashboard mileage displays as opposed to the driving?

 

[Norton]

....However, there is supposed to be logic that switches cell groups offline in sequence to prolong battery life. ..

I'm fairly certain no EV operates this way.
All the cells are in series and all go up and down in voltage together (~360-400VDC, or something like that) during charge and discharge.
There is a 'balancing' procedure done to top up an lower than normal cells individually, after the main charging is completed.
Those are smaller, low current wires that come from the BMS.
The main power wires are big ass and connect all cells in series. There are no relays bypassing anything.

 

[tofelec]

if jou dutch speek:http://www.amperaforum.nl/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3311&p=39461#p39461

 

[Mister Dave]

if jou dutch speek:http://www.amperaforum.nl/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3311&p=39461#p39461

De beheerder vereist dat je geregistreerd en ingelogd bent om dit forum te openen.

The administrator requires that you are registered and logged in to open this forum.

 

[tofelec]

sorry, here a copy of this tread(in dutch) issue with ev en ice wont start:We waren zover dat we de auto een aantal keren gestart hadden, maar bleven met een P0AFA (Hybrid System voltage Low) fout zitten en kregen ook nog steeds (ondanks juiste koelvloeistof sensor P1FFFF) en de auto liep ook alleen op ICE.

P0AFA is een zogenaamde 'rationaliteits' fout (zie service manual). Hier wordt de berekende waarde van de 96 cellen in serie(3,85V per stuk, ongeveer 50% SOC daarmee per cel) , vergeleken met de gemeten spanning over de terminals. Deze terminals zitten dus aan het uiteinde van de T-vorm van de accu, eigenlijk net onder het dashboard, vooraan aan de accu. P1FFFF is een slecht gedocumenteerde fout, maar met hulp van een franse Ampera expert gevonden dat deze zich voordoet bij het meten van een laag koelvloeistof niveau (welbekend), maar ook bij een fout bij de Isolatiewaarde. Ik vermoed dat dit gemeten wordt met laagspanning tussen de - terminal van de hoogspannings accu en het chassis. Uit mijn hoofd moet de waarde minimaal rond de 1300 Kilo Ohm zijn. Deze isolatie waarde was bij de auto ook onvoldoende en wat wisselend.

P0AFA wordt getriggerd zodra de gemeten spanning meer dan 10V afwijkt van de berekende spanning (in mijn geval 96 x 3,85V) en vervolgens gaan de 'contactors' (hoog spannings relais) niet dicht. Je hebt contactors voor het opladen, contactors voor het leveren van de spanning naar de inverter (positief en negatief), en uit het hoofd voor de verwarming en airco. Je kan dan dus niet laden, verwarmen of koelen, of de auto verplaatsen (alle verbruikers van hoogspanning). Starten van de verbrandingsmotor (ICE) gebeurt middels de electromotor en kan dus ook niet. In het centrale display krijg je melding: 'power off'.

Aangezien zonder brug (we deden dit als hobby project) ondoenlijk en daarbij gevaarlijk is, heb ik contact gezocht met mensen die meer ervaring en een goede werkplaats hadden om met het project verder te gaan. Ik kwam uit bij Hybrideshop.nl (Ronald Dortmans), welke ervaring heeft met de reparatie en revisie van diverse Toyota Prius en Honda Insight hybrides. Hij had nog geen ervaring met de Ampera / Volt en was dus wel benieuwd. Goede wederzijdse afspraken gemaakt en zo aan de slag gegaan.

Ronald heeft met behulp van brug de accu onder de auto vandaan kunnen halen en concludeerde wat de MDI interface ook aan gaf dat de cellen op zich goed leken. Ook van schade was weinig sprake. Bij verwijderen van de 'Battery Junction Relay Block' aan de voorzijde van de accu en de kap daarop, was vrij snel te zien dat een van de stekkers vanaf de BCM (Battery controle module) door slecht contact (corrosie? Trilling?) te heet was geworden en zwartgeblakerd / verkoold was. Resultaat was dus dat de gemeten spanning niet meer klopte (te laag) en hoogst waarschijnlijk ook een verminderde isolatie.

Dit was wellicht te repareren, maar gezien de inspanning om de accu te verwijderen gekozen voor een nieuw onderdeel. Bij onze zoektocht naar het onderdeel kwamen we een goedkoop, jong 2015 pack tegen. Aangezien we niet zeker waren of er nog meer defecten buiten deze stekker waren, gekozen voor deze oplossing.

Pack kwam binnen en na montage bleek dat de grens spanning om te laden niet door het pack werd gehaald; hierdoor wordt vervolgens weer een conditie getriggerd waardoor alle contactors open blijven: onmogelijk om te laden via de stekker. Pack weer laten zakken, met een losse lader voorzichtig handmatig geladen en weer gemonteerd.

Vervolgens bleven de P1FFFF en P0AFA hoogspanningsmeldingen nog in de computer staan. Deze waren niet met een normale scantool te verwijderen en de contactors bleven nog steeds open. Door de Hybrid Power Control Module 2 (welke o.a. de BCM en contactors aanstuurt) opnieuw te flashen, waren de foutmeldingen verholpen. Nu moest de BCM zelf nog opnieuw geflashed en gecalibreerd worden (beide middels SPS en een 1 uurs abbonement, te betalen per creditcard) en na 10 minuten BCM calibratie hoorden we allerlei gezoem, getik (contactors sluiten) en zowaar een groene lamp op het dashboard: de auto was aan het laden.

Vrijwel direct werden we echter (helaas) weer geconfronteerd met de melding 'service hoogspanningslaadsysteem'. Een kleine teleurstelling ... Voor de zekerheid onder de motorkap gekeken en het batterij koelvloeistof systeem reservoir was volledig leeg! Eindelijk een P1FFFF zoals hij was bedoeld: ter voorkoming van laden bij een te laag koelvloeistof niveau.

GDS2 weer aangesloten, dop van koelvloeistof reservoir gehaald en binnen de HPCM2 module de optie gekozen om het koelvloeistof systeem te ontluchten. Er gaan dan diverse actuators en pompen plusminus 20-25 minuten lopen, om zodoende lucht te verwijderen uit het systeem. Koelvloeistof bijgevuld en P1FFFF nogmaals verwijderd middels flash van HPCM2. Dit moet omdat P1FFFF (als ook sommige andere hoogspannings error codes) niet zomaar gewist kunnen worden.

Nu hadden we geen foutmeldingen meer, heel voorzichtig een stukje over het parkeerterrein gereden en de rest afgemonteerd. Eind goed al goed :clap:

Voor een ieder die aan zijn Ampera / Volt wil sleutelen zou ik zeggen: een MDI interface is onmisbaar. Je kunt hier werkelijk alles van de auto mee uitlezen of aansturen en heeft enorm geholpen in de diagnose en latere procedures zoals ontluchten. Daarnaast is de service manual (die van 80MB, 8000 pagina's)ook onmisbaar. In de (PDF) kun je goed zoeken wat de condities zijn die een foutcode triggeren en zo te helpen in de analyse. En uiteraard iemand met ervaring met het werken met hoogspanning en hybrides (hybrideshop.nl).

 

[Bill Step]

and in English,,best I could translate.


We were far we had started the car several times, but stayed with P0AFA (Hybrid System Low voltage) fault down and still got (despite proper coolant sensor P1FFFF) and the car only ran on ICE. P0AFA is a 'rationaliteits' fault (see service manual). Here, the calculated value of the 96 cells in series (3,85V each, about 50% SOC therewith per cell), compared with the measured voltage across the terminals. These terminals are thus at the end of the T-shaped battery, actually just below the dashboard in front of the battery. P1FFFF is poorly documented error, but with the help of a French Ampera expert found that it occurs in measuring a low coolant level (well-known), but also to an error in the Insulation. I suspect that this is measured with the low voltage between the - terminal of the high voltage battery and the chassis. Out of my head, the value must be at least around 1300 Kilo Ohm. This insulation value was in the car also insufficient and some mixed. P0AFA is triggered as soon as the measured voltage over 10V differs from the calculated voltage (in my case 3,85V x 96) and then the "contactors" (high voltage relay) will not close. You contactors for charging, contactors for supplying power to the inverter (positive and negative), and head for the heating and air conditioning. You can then thus not loading, heating or cooling, or move the vehicle (all users of high voltage). Starting the internal combustion engine (ICE) is carried out by means of the electric motor and can therefore not as well. In the main screen you get message 'power off'. Since no bridge (we did this as a hobby project) impossible and thereby dangerous, I contacted people who had more experience and good work to continue with the project. I arrived at Hybrideshop.nl (Ronald Dortmans), which has experience in the repair and overhaul of various Toyota Prius and Honda Insight hybrids. He had no experience with the Ampera / Volt and was so curious. Good made mutual agreements and so went to work. Ronald using bridge can take the battery out from under the car and concluded that the MDI interface also indicated that the cells themselves seemed good. Also there was little damage. Upon removing the "Battery Junction Relay Block ' at the front of the battery pack and the cap thereon, was free to see quickly that had become to be called one of the plugs from the BCM (Battery control module) due to poor contact (corrosion? Vibration?), and was blackened / charred. Result was that the measured voltage no longer knocked (too low) and most probably a decreased insulation. This was probably fix, but given the effort to remove the battery selected for a new part. In our search for the item we came across a cheap, young pack in 2015. Since we were not sure if there were other defects outside the plug, chose this solution. Pack came in and after assembly revealed that the threshold voltage to charge was not met by the pack; thus a condition is then again triggered causing all contactors remain open: impossible to charge via the plug. Pack lowered again, carefully loaded manually with an off-board charger, and is mounted again. Then P1FFFF and P0AFA power alerts were still in the computer. This could not be removed with normal scan tool and contactors still remained open. The Hybrid Power Control Module 2 (which among other things controls the BCM and contactors) to flash again, the errors were corrected. Now the BCM itself had yet to be flashed and recalibrated (both by SPS and one hour abbonement, payable by credit card) and after 10 minutes BCM calibration we heard all kinds of buzz, tapping (contactors close) and even a green light on the dashboard : the car was loading. Almost immediately we were not (unfortunately) confronted with the message 'service power charging system. One small disappointment ... To be sure looked under the hood and the battery coolant system reservoir was completely empty! Finally a P1FFFF as it was intended: to prevent charging at a low coolant level. GDS2 reconnected, removed from coolant reservoir cap and the chosen option within the HPCM2 module to bleed the cooling system. There will then various actuators and pumps plus minus 20-25 minute walk, in order to remove air from the system. Coolant P1FFFF replenished and removed again by means of flash HPCM2. This is because P1FFFF (as well as some other high voltage error codes) can not simply be erased. Now we had no more errors, very carefully drove a bit about the car and assembled the rest. Well that ends well: clap: For anyone who wants to tinker, I would say its Ampera / Volt: an MDI interface is indispensable. You can actually everything from the car with this reading or driving and has helped in such venting diagnosis and subsequent procedures. In addition, the service manual (which is 80MB, 8,000 pages) is also essential. In the (PDF) you can really find out what are the conditions that trigger an error code and thus help in the analysis. And of course, someone with experience of working with high voltage and hybrids (hybrideshop.nl). For anyone who wants to tinker, I would say its Ampera / Volt: an MDI interface is indispensable. You can actually everything from the car with this reading or driving and has helped in such venting diagnosis and subsequent procedures. In addition, the service manual (which is 80MB, 8,000 pages) is also essential. In the (PDF) you can really find out what are the conditions that trigger an error code and thus help in the analysis. And of course, someone with experience of working with high voltage and hybrids (hybrideshop.nl). For anyone who wants to tinker, I would say its Ampera / Volt: an MDI interface is indispensable. You can actually everything from the car with this reading or driving and has helped in such venting diagnosis and subsequent procedures. In addition, the service manual (which is 80MB, 8,000 pages) is also essential. In the (PDF) you can really find out what are the conditions that trigger an error code and thus help in the analysis. And of course, someone with experience of working with high voltage and hybrids (hybrideshop.nl). In the (PDF) you can really find out what are the conditions that trigger an error code and thus help in the analysis. And of course, someone with experience of working with high voltage and hybrids (hybrideshop.nl). In the (PDF) you can really find out what are the conditions that trigger an error code and thus help in the analysis. And of course, someone with experience of working with high voltage and hybrids (hybrideshop.nl).

 

[Mister Dave]

Google translates with paragraphs intact. As for context, you're on your own.

We were so far that we had started the car a number of times, but remained with a P0AFA (Hybrid System voltage Low) error and still got (despite proper coolant sensor P1FFFF) and the car was running on ICE alone.

P0AFA is a so-called 'rationality' error (see service manual). Here the calculated value of the 96 cells in series (3.85 V each, approximately 50% SOC per cell) is compared with the measured voltage across the terminals. These terminals are thus at the end of the T-shape of the battery, actually just under the dashboard, in front of the battery. P1FFFF is a poorly documented error, but with the help of a French Ampera expert found that this occurs when measuring a low coolant level (well known), but also with an error at the Isolation value. I suspect that this is measured with low voltage between the terminal of the high voltage battery and the chassis. From my head the value must be at least around 1300 Kilo Ohm. This insulation value was also insufficient in the car and varied.

P0AFA is triggered as soon as the measured voltage deviates by more than 10V from the calculated voltage (in my case 96 x 3.85V) and then the 'contactors' (high voltage relays) do not close. You have contactors for charging, contactors for supplying the voltage to the inverter (positive and negative), and off the head for heating and air conditioning. So you can not load, heat or cool, or move the car (all consumers of high voltage). Starting the internal combustion engine (ICE) is done by means of the electric motor and therefore can not. In the central display you get a message: 'power off'.

Since without a bridge (we did this as a hobby project) impossible and dangerous, I contacted people who had more experience and a good workplace to continue with the project. I came to Hybrideshop.nl (Ronald Dortmans), which has experience with the repair and overhaul of various Toyota Prius and Honda Insight hybrids. He had no experience with the Ampera / Volt and was therefore curious. Made good mutual agreements and started working like that.

Ronald was able to use the bridge to get the battery from under the car and concluded what the MDI interface also indicated that the cells themselves looked good. There was also little damage. When removing the 'Battery Junction Relay Block' on the front of the battery and the cover on it, it was fairly easy to see that one of the plugs from the BCM (Battery control module) was too hot due to bad contact (corrosion? Vibration?). had become and blackened / charred. The result was that the measured voltage was no longer correct (too low) and most probably also a reduced insulation.

This might have been fixable, but given the effort to remove the battery, a new part was chosen. In our search for the part we came across a cheap, young 2015 pack. Since we were not sure if there were more defects outside this plug, we opted for this solution.

Pack came in and after the assembly it appeared that the limit voltage to charge was not taken by the pack; as a result, a condition is triggered again so that all contactors remain open: impossible to charge via the plug. Pack again, with a loose charger carefully loaded manually and reassembled.

Then the P1FFFF and P0AFA high-voltage messages remained in the computer. These could not be removed with a normal scan tool and the contactors were still open. By flashing the Hybrid Power Control Module 2 (which controls the BCM and contactors, among other things), the error messages were corrected. Now the BCM itself had to be flashed and calibrated again (both through SPS and a 1 hour subscription, to be paid by credit card) and after 10 minutes of BCM calibration we heard all kinds of buzz, ticks (closing contactors) and actually a green light on the dashboard : the car was loading.

Almost immediately, however, we were (unfortunately) confronted with the message 'service high-voltage charging system'. A small disappointment ... For the security looked under the hood and the battery coolant system reservoir was completely empty! Finally a P1FFFF as it was intended: to prevent loading at too low coolant level.

GDS2 reconnected, cap of coolant reservoir removed and within the HPCM2 module the option chosen to vent the coolant system. Various actuators and pumps will then run for about 20-25 minutes, in order to remove air from the system. Coolant refilled and P1FFFF removed again by flash from HPCM2. This is because P1FFFF (as well as some other high-voltage error codes) can not just be deleted.

Now we had no more error messages, very carefully a piece of the parking lot driven and the rest assembled. End well a