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Solar Panel costs

To Tagamet, I did see on the Discovery channel, a new way of producing solar collection panels using SIG technology.This entails printing a combination of inexpensive chemicals on a polyethylene sheet. Instead of using pure silicon chips, which are very expensive to produce, a small manufacturer has made flexible cheap solar sheets. If GM could partner with him and production could be increased, solar windshield collectors (portable and plugin)would work.
 

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I was wonder after reading and looking at all the things the Chevy Volt will have in it. Will the Battery be enough to handle all the Demands the features will demand from A123 System Battery pack. Can it really supply enough power the car needs?
The power of the battery will be adequate for the car. I don't think this is an issue. That is what we are being led to believe anyway. Mules ran on the Nickle Metal hydrid batteries and they have lower power output than the A123 batteries.

Range of the battery might vary from predictions. Apparently it will be greater than 40 miles and even if it isn't that wouldn't deter me because my commute is only 12.5 miles one way. So actually I might prefer a smaller battery (smaller Kwh) will a 20 mile range over the 40 considering the current cost of li-ion batteries.

This would require the ICE for a 5 miles each commute which wouldn't be so bad considering the ICE needs to run to keep its fuel system from gumming up and the gas from going bad in the tank.
 

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which wouldn't be so bad considering the ICE needs to run to keep its fuel system from gumming up and the gas from going bad in the tank.
I know we discussed the “old gasoline” issue to death in another thread but if that happened to me on a regular basis I would be so very happy. The gas going bad because of not being used?? Great! :)
 

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I hear you Tex but I bet you wouldn't be so happy WHEN it left you stranded 5 miles from home. :D I agree that is the kind of problems to have!
 

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I squirt a little StaBil in my sailboat's outboard motor gas tank each fall. It starts first pull the next spring. Never have had a gumming or water problem.
 

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Where did the EV1 Batteries Go

A little asking around has revealed that Chevron paid about $160 Million to acquire all NiMH battery patent rights in 2000 to 2002 and now licenses the right to build batteries through Cobasys, BUT they won't license anything larger than an 8 Amp-Hour cell. This is from the Cobasys web page announcing GM's joint venture on Li-ion batteries last year:

" Cobasys is a joint venture between Chevron Technology Ventures LLC, a subsidiary of Chevron Corporation (NYSE: CVX) and Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. (NASDAQ: ENER).

For more information about Cobasys, contact Ray Wagner at 248-620-5700 or visit our website at http://www.cobasys.com. "

Full article at
http://www.cobasys.com/news/20070104.shtml

So, Chevron is a partner in the Volt project !!! NOW what's your best guess for the Volt introduction date?

Back to Lithium-ion. LiFePO4 (lithium-iron phosphate) is the best in cold and hot temperatures, but especially in hot temps they degrade about 10-20% capacity per year. I heard at the Volt Forum meeting at the NYC auto show that the climate control system for the Li-ion batteries may be very elaborate, to the extent that your motor may start your unattended car to make heat to keep them from getting too cold, or to run the AC to keep them cool (probably right after stopping the vehicle, then only for a short time). The iron in LiFePO4 has to all be in the Fe2 valence state, and any Fe0 (zero) makes an imperfection that propagates with time and temperature. So any LiFePO4 cells will have dozens of these spots on them and just deteriorate with time.

But technical limitations of the batteries don't bother me so much, especially with an on-board generator. The real danger is that with $500 Billion in windfall profits this year, Big Oil will just buy up the winning Lithium technology the same way they bought NiMH. Then you are back to lead-acid, so why not just start with sealed lead acid, AGM, spiral-wound batteries and make a 15 mile range PHEV? You can still get it to 70 MPG pretty easily, and you can save $2 by charging it. It's the only sure thing.

Dr Mark
 

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Dr. Mark, That is truly depressing. I'm also worried about this but feel the situation is different this time. The Energy companies are in trouble because they know that cheap oil production is heading down. Also, America and the rest of the world has experienced the death of the electric car before and I don't think it will stand for it again. We could all just revolt and ride a bike to work for a month. I think that would get the government's attention. ;) How about that slogan, "No plug. No sale". If people get it in their heads that they would rather inhale cigars than to use old, dirty automotive technology then there is nothing the petroleum companies can do, accept go oversees. See American tobacco.
 

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How To Make It Stick

Dr. Mark, That is truly depressing. I'm also worried about this but feel the situation is different this time. The Energy companies are in trouble because they know that cheap oil production is heading down. Also, America and the rest of the world has experienced the death of the electric car before and I don't think it will stand for it again. We could all just revolt and ride a bike to work for a month. I think that would get the government's attention. ;) How about that slogan, "No plug. No sale". If people get it in their heads that they would rather inhale cigars than to use old, dirty automotive technology then there is nothing the petroleum companies can do, accept go oversees. See American tobacco.
Texas,
Its one of the many things that are tied up in Washington's inability to act. If we had any Energy Policy, electric vehicles would be a big part of it. Also, it is expressly illegal to use patent ownership to block availability, so if anyone challenged this and opened up a NiMH battery plant then it would just become a legal battle, and who do you think would win (back to the $500 B windfall profits). It's this political power that ties up change and guarantees the status quo to incumbant technologies.

Actually Electro Energy Inc claims to have a NiMH process that does not violate Chevrons patents, and Goldpeak (a small Hong Kong company) licensed NiMH from Ovonics before GM or Chevron owned the patents, and previous licenses must be honored by new owners of a patent. Goldpeak builds 30 AH batteries for the new Vectrix electric motorcycle. So there are loopholes, except probably not for GM, since they sold these rights to Chevron and probably had to sign a non-compete rider along with it.

I'm not against oil companies, oil is a great source of clean energy if used properly (in Series Hybrid drive systems), its just that we shouldn't be wasting 85 to 90% of it by burning it in IC engines instead of efficient turbine engines and compound cycle and co-generation plants. The biggest problem is that the incentives aren't there (maybe high crude prices will change that) and it is more profitable for Big Oil to buy crude from OPEC than to explore and drill their own. So one thing the government could do is tax OPEC imports (in retaliation for the biggest price fixing conspiracy in history) as a price support measure for domestically produced oil and guarantee that the price will never go below $50/barrel again. Then lots of tar sands, oil shale and coal gasefication would become economically viable.

But I agree with energizing the public. "No Plug - No Sale" is the next bumper sticker we will be producing at www.freedomformula.org . Hope you'll visit and buy a couple thousand.

Dr Mark
 

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Nice post Dr Mark. I just have a few comments:


Texas,
it is expressly illegal to use patent ownership to block
Thank you because that makes me feel better. However, even though it's illegal to block, companies can launch huge lawsuits that can drag on for years and years, accomplishing the very thing they set out to do. It might be very expensive for an oil company or country to do but it would be peanuts compared to how much money there is still to be made the old fashioned way - oil.


it is more profitable for Big Oil to buy crude from OPEC than to explore and drill their own. So one thing the government could do is tax OPEC imports (in retaliation for the biggest price fixing conspiracy in history) as a price support measure for domestically produced oil and guarantee that the price will never go below $50/barrel again.
Yeah, I can understand the "use their oil before we use our oil" concept but look at how that's hurting our country with massive addiction and mounting foreign debts that will be felt for many years to come. Kind of like how a new college graduate feels that has enormous student loans to repay.


Then lots of tar sands, oil shale and coal gasefication would become economically viable.
Please don't tell me you think this is a good thing! Processing of tar sands and shale is an environmental disaster waiting to happen akin to an alcoholic that feels compelled to insert the bottle of alcohol rectally because their throat is so damaged. Maybe a folk tale butt... ;)


But I agree with energizing the public. "No Plug - No Sale" is the next bumper sticker we will be producing at www.freedomformula.org . Hope you'll visit and buy a couple thousand.
Nice work! Now all we have to do is convince women to only date men that drive electric cars and we can change the world!
 

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Nice work! Now all we have to do is convince women to only date men that drive electric cars and we can change the world!
You know, Texas, I can't say I always agree with everything you say, but I always enjoy the way you say it.

If we ever have a GM-Volt Forum convention and meet up, the beer's on me.
 

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You know, Texas, I can't say I always agree with everything you say, but I always enjoy the way you say it.

If we ever have a GM-Volt Forum convention and meet up, the beer's on me.
Texas, I'll buy you a round too...as long as I don't have to be there for any enematic ingestion of it.
 

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Misspost. Ok to delete.
 

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Some have done that. Check out myrav4ev.com.
Seeing as how this thread is nearly 5 years old, I doubt the OP is still around to be checking anything out ;)

(but it was fun to read this thread and see all the speculation with the 20/20 hindsight of today. Maybe we should resurrect an old thread once a week just for the entertainment factor...)
 
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