[Mikro]

I was wonder after reading and looking at all the things the Chevy Volt will have in it. Will the Battery be enough to handle all the Demands the features will demand from A123 System Battery pack. Can it really supply enough power the car needs?

At this point looks like alot expected from a battery System.

 

[Tagamet]

re Batteries

I was wonder after reading and looking at all the things the Chevy Volt will have in it. Will the Battery be enough to handle all the Demands the features will demand from A123 System Battery pack. Can it really supply enough power the car needs?
At this point looks like alot expected from a battery System.

Granted, but that's what they are determining right now with the bench testing and soon, with the batteries installed in Mules (Chevy Malibu's). Although time will tell, things look promising so far!
With a target of June '08 for journalists to actually drive mules, the clock is ticking (thank goodness).
Be well and God Bless,
Tagamet

 

[corky boyd]

What is the planned capacity of the Volt's battery pack in Kwhs? Is the A123 technology (iron) what will be used, or is GM still looking at cobalt Li ion/Li polymer technology?

 

[[email protected]]

energy

This is a big step into being energy independent for the US. I truly hope if we call for advice we are not connected with India or Pakistan etc. Also for once lets manufacture in our own country, I feel very uneasy about depending on other countries for anything.

 

[Tagamet]

Capacity

What is the planned capacity of the Volt's battery pack in Kwhs? Is the A123 technology (iron) what will be used, or is GM still looking at cobalt Li ion/Li polymer technology?

I believe they are shooting for 16kWh to allow at least 40 miles All Electric Range. At least one post I saw said that GM was shooting for 40 miles AER at the END of the battery's life.
HTH,
Tagamet

 

[windy dan]

lithium- ion batteries

lithium-ion batteries still way to costly.check out csiro austraila ultra batterys. http://www.csiro.au/solutions/ECOmmodore.html . gms holden made gto . another battery firefly energys .looks good and cheap.maybe across betwen the two would work good?

 

[NZDavid]

I feel very uneasy about depending on other countries for anything.

Is it a concern then that 93% of rare earth magnet production comes from China. Needed to make the generator/engine.

 

[Jason M. Hendler]

Is it a concern then that 93% of rare earth magnet production comes from China. Needed to make the generator/engine.

There are motor designs that do not require permanent magnets. Tesla uses an asychronous motor without permanent magnets, so that should not be a concern.

 

[NZDavid]

# Jason

It makes sense to me now why you would use an asychronous motor. Thanks.

 

[Jim]

Will winter defeat the new battery packs?

I was wonder after reading and looking at all the things the Chevy Volt will have in it. Will the Battery be enough to handle all the Demands the features will demand from A123 System Battery pack. Can it really supply enough power the car needs?

At this point looks like alot expected from a battery System.

As an owner of a neighborhood electric vehicle (NEV), I have to wonder how cold winter temperatures will effect the all-electric driving range of the Volt.

My NEV, a Zenn, is reduced in range by a whopping 75% when subjected to cold temperatures (down in the high 20s or lower). During those times, I'll be lucky to drive 8 miles before the battery pack is depleted. Of course the batteries, although type AGM, are lead-acid batteries - which have historically been weak during winter months.

Hopefully GM and A123 are developing a battery pack that is not vulnerable to cold temperatures. Otherwise Volt buyers may as well forget plug-in all-electric capability during the winter.

 

[trigger46]

solar cell chargers.....

Does GM plan to offer discounted solar panel chargers as an enticement? I think that this would attract many buyers who would like the complete package.

 

[Tagamet]

Solar option

Does GM plan to offer discounted solar panel chargers as an enticement? I think that this would attract many buyers who would like the complete package.

Not that I know of. Given the NUMEROUS comments going on on the $35K price thread, it doesn't seem to be a palitable option for Volt V 1.0, but never say never.
HTH,
Tagamet

 

[ned23]

...Hopefully GM and A123 are developing a battery pack that is not vulnerable to cold temperatures. Otherwise Volt buyers may as well forget plug-in all-electric capability during the winter.

It's been my experience that regular-old lithium batteries already outperform lead-acid batteries at cold temperatures.

As you may have guessed from reading the news, they tend to produce plenty of their own internal heat as soon as you turn them on.

 

[ned23]

Not that I know of. Given the NUMEROUS comments going on on the $35K price thread, it doesn't seem to be a palitable option for Volt V 1.0, but never say never.
HTH,
Tagamet

Where is the $35k price thread?

 

[ned23]

I was wonder after reading and looking at all the things the Chevy Volt will have in it. Will the Battery be enough to handle all the Demands the features will demand from A123 System Battery pack. Can it really supply enough power the car needs?

At this point looks like alot expected from a battery System.

From everything I've read A123 is the best system right now, although there is even newer technology that will make it obsolete in just a few years.

All of the most promising new battery technology in the news right now involves engineering at the nano-scale of the battery structure.

 

[Tagamet]

Ned23,
I believe GM has "a piece of the action" in the companies that are implementing the nanotech advances. I haven't heard whether or not they are "in" on the ultracapacitor advances though.

 

[Tagamet]

Patent link

Here's a link to the A123 info:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/0...s-another-patent-on-nanophosphate-electrodes/

 

[revolt]

I'm pretty sure A123 cells will work in a Volt.
Seems like the cold temp performance of A123 is far superior to lead acid, the cycle life is (reported to be) at least 4 times better, energy and power density about 3 times better, and no ill effects from storage while partially discharged. This is vastly superior to lead acid which I am using in 2 vehicles. Too bad the cost is about 10 times as much. But I expect this ratio to go down pretty soon, in a few years or so. Even though Lithium Polymer is about 4 times better on energy density. it (has up til recently) suffered from low power density. And there is the nasty trick of thermal runaway looming in there maybe, unless thery fix it.
I, like many others, am testing A123 cells I bought in power tool packs. Buying them this way saves 1/2 the cost of buying the "Development Kit" from A123.

In the EAA (Electric Auto Association) Jan 2008 issue of "Current Events" pg 23, there is an article by a guy (Gary Graunke) who put about $10000 ($100 apiece for Dewalt DC9360's which have 10 cells each 3.6V at 2.3 AH) worth of these power tool cells in his Honda Insight and they are doing just fine for him. He took out all of the Honda stuff except the tranny. He put in an AC induction motor and drive from Metric Mind. Look on the eaaev website I think it is only available to members here http://www.eaaev.org/CurrentEvents/pdf/2008/index.html

 

[Dr Mark]

Where are those NiMH batteries from the EV1

Lithium is an immature technology rampant with risks and uncertainties. Even the basic chemistry is not settled, with Lithium Manganese being the latest more promising combination. So let's be honest; vehicle ready Lithium batteries are 5 years away.

HOWEVER, 10 years ago GM was in production of a car that got 130 to 150 miles on a charge. Since then those NiMH (nickel metal hydride) batteries have powered almost every hybrid made and many have well over 100,000 miles on them in all kinds of climates and driving conditions. Toyota Rav4 EV owners have yet to change out any battery packs and many have over 100,000 miles and that's while driving ONLY ON THE BATTERIES, since the Rav4 EV is not a hybrid.

The concept of a hybrid is to NOT require so much of the batteries, as the generator can keep the batteries at any SOC level it chooses and even assist the batteries when continued high current is called for. So instead of 1000 lbs of NiMH batteries to get 130 miles, the volt could use 300lbs to get it's 40 mile "all-electric" range. This is the right choice for the Volt, and when Lithium is mature, what's the big deal; start putting Lithium in and make it a 100 mile range vehicle without changing much of anything else in the car.

So it makes you wonder; WHY is GM embroiled in hatching a new battery technology when America needs this car NOW, and lots more models like it. Let's get out of the Lithium quicksand and go build this car.

Dr Mark

 

[john meschede]

Battery choices

Could it be that the Patents for the Nickel cad batteries were purchased by Oil companies after they engineered the demise of the EV1? Although I can't substantiate that, I did hear that from another Web source. It may be that once those patents run out, GM would offer that type of battery in future vehicles(like a Cadillac Escalade or GMYukon).