Trip Chowdry, the analyst being quoted, is a noted fool. His negative opinion is a positive. CNBC seems to enjoy putting on some of the very worst analysts I've ever seen.

 

Thank you for saving me the trouble of reading. That guy is absolutely terrible and is _always_ wrong. It's sad that he still gets any press.

 

I feel like there is some grasping at straws going on, especially within the anti-GM EV community. Personally, I think we're about to hear some bad news about Model 3 production and deliveries, and some of these hit pieces are intended to soften the blow.

 

Any two-vehicle family can probably modify lifestyle enough to purchase one plug-in EV for the household for local use, such as commuting and errands, saving an internal combustion engine vehicle for long-distance travel and large-cargo utility.

 

That describes my family situation to a T, having said that we could easily live with ONE vehicle if GM or anyone else would sell a PEHV with about the same electric range of the current Gen II Volt.

With my normal DD routine we are averaging over 99% of all our miles in our Volt from the battery/grid. But we want/need the Equinox for our long road trips to visit our grand children in Maryland.

The new Chrysler Pacifica is the closest we have so maybe there's hope if that sells well.

 

well if it is supposed be having market issues then that likely means the III will as well. 400k reservations might sound like a lot but that is not a large number to any serious manufacturer. it could be that the market for 200 mile range EVs is already softened as people still aren't willing to jump because 200 is still too low; it really is.

 

Nah, EV range could be a thousand miles, makes no difference, gas is cheap, electric rates are being increased but only for individual households, trumps in office and a lot of states want to penalize EV owners as much as possible with irrational fees that exceed the cost of just driving an efficient gas car.

Unless our country grows a pair EV ownership will stay low due to all the irrational folks that live in the middle of it.

Ah Well, I guess when gas goes up over $4 we shall see

 

The difference here is that people expect Chevys to be discounted since GM has used rebates and incentive like forever to move their vehicles. If GM tried to hold the line and force all the dealerships to use a one price MSRP policy, it probably wouldn't fly. Now if the bolt came as a little AWD SUV instead of a little boxy econobox i think it would fly off the shelves as that is what every soccer mom wants. The bolt isn't too different from the leaf or i3 in size and shape, and although that might be the most efficient use of space, I've been screaming for nearly 4 years for more. I'm not interested in a bolt only because I want my next EV to be bigger and just be an Impala, Equinox, or Suburban with a new powertrain. The only way this makes it into the mainstream is to make it mainstream. Stop trying to make a different car that looks different. Toyota is failing miserably at making their EVs look fugly. GM just needs to take their normal progression of vehicular styling and design in replaceable powertrains.

 

There really isn't a story here, GM correctly predicted 25K/year sales and that's about what they're getting...The fundamental challenge remains...There are three entities that are reportedly more than half...
1. More than half of all PHEVs/EVs are leased...
2. More than half of all PHEVs/EVs are sold/leased in image conscience California...
3. More than half of all luxury brands are leased...

Take those metrics into consideration and it all makes sense...The person who can afford a Bolt, whether purchase or lease, probably is already driving a lower end BMW/Lexus/Audi/Caddy and lives in CA...You enjoy the perceived image the vehicle gives you and the "luxury" dealership experience for sales and service (many luxury leases included free maintenance)...The Bolt just isn't compelling enough to warrant the "sacrifice" of an image downgrade, feature/option downgrade and ultimately to deal with charging stations especially when you get another luxury vehicle for around the same purchase/lease payment as the Bolt...You could argue the better approach for this potential customers is to continue to own/lease their luxury ICE vehicle and to lease a highly subsidized Spark EV and to use it as a commuter...If you can get in on the fire sale, a Spark can literally be a quarter of the purchase price/lease price of a Bolt...You still get a HOV sticker, because you have a second luxury vehicle your "image" doesn't take quite a hit, don't have to deal with charging stations and for those who do care about image they can use their luxury vehicle if they wanted a nice dinner with valet parking...

 

The Bolt really is expensive; and I hate to say it but it's very unattractive. It's not so bad in orange or blue. But if you drive a Bolt your wife won't have to worry about you having an affair--it's a natural woman repellent. So honestly about 3-5k off is where it should be. Having said that, the State of CA is giving 15 million to the National Park Service to put chargers in and around Death Valley and Joshua Tree; EVGo now has 4 DC chargers in Baker, CA. So the Bolt now (and in the future) can go to most remote spots I hike in. So it's now on my actual purchase list for consideration. People underestimate how far 100-120 miles is. I used to think it was really far from where I live to Palm Springs. But it's only 118 miles to just outside PS where EVGo has DC chargers. I think in many cases you'd only need to stop for 20-30 minutes to do most excursions to PS or Santa Barbara with the DC stations now available.

 

By that logic, Ford must be going to discontinue the F150 soon. It is always being discounted.

 

Bolt MSRP was calculated with negotiation room for dealers. GM is making money off it, regardless. Dealers discount to move volume and get rewarded with that strategy.

Bottom line, Bolt transaction price will be far lower than the Model 3 and GM and the dealers will make money off the transactions.

 

The Bolt competes in the same space as Leaf, Prius and Volt. It is a green car. That is a niche market. There are a lot of people who care about green, but they are still a small minority in the overall market. People who like these cars based on their lesser known advantages of performance, convenience, etc. are an even smaller niche.

The typical consumer doesn't care about how green a car is. He cares more about either if it is affordable/reliable/versatile or its prestige. As long as gas is cheap, these green cars lose in both of those categories. Plus, marketing these is an uphill climb because people are understandably worried about range and battery longevity. The Tesla will at least have prestige going for it. Tesla got that part right. They understand that prestige, not green, is what will sell cars.

So unless/until gas gets expensive, these Leaf/Prius/Volt/Bolt green cars are not going mainstream. Companies (other than Tesla) will make as few as possible to get the environmental credits they want, and sell the cars as best they can. The niche market will absorb a certain volume, but if production is higher than that, it will take discounting to move them.

That is going to be true until something changes the market like higher gas prices, (maybe a supply shock or a large tax increase on fuel or carbon), or a sudden and highly visible environmental disaster that makes average people care about carbon emissions (the fact that global warming has not achieved this means it will have to be pretty impressive and undeniable). Or on the supply side, the EV battery gets cheap enough so an EV has a lower sticker price than an equivalent ICE car.

 

Discounting the Bolt?
Outside of CA where are the Bolt discounts?

Every NY dealer I have contacted is strictly MSRP on the Bolt.

One dealer even got insulted and wrote me off as a potential buyer/stopped email contact with me when I simply questioned if they would be discounting the Bolt in the future.

 

Discounting the Bolt?
Outside of CA where are the Bolt discounts?

Every NY dealer I have contacted is strictly MSRP on the Bolt.

As much as GM touts the outstanding dealership franchise model, this is what happens, an utter waste of time...

Took me 15 seconds to go to www.cars.com, enter a NJ zip code and 500 mile radius, select the Chevy Bolt and sort the results...In less time than it would take to call a dealership and be transferred to a Silverado pushing salesman I found you (at the time of me writing this) four examples of a Bolt EV $1000 off MSRP:

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searc...0053&page=1&perPage=50&rd=500&searchSource=SORT&sf1Dir=ASC&sf1Nm=price&zc=08601

There are other sites such as autotrader...

 

Sad to say, but unless the author successfully purchased a Bolt for $5k under true MSRP, you cannot trust it.
Scummy dealers will say they discount cars but when you arrive, you find the car has additional costs associated with it that often run it up past normal MSRP even with a 'discount'.

There is a Motorcycle dealer near me (Malcolm Smith) that is terrible with these games. They advertise the lowest prices in California when in fact they are the perhaps the most expensive dealer in California.

Rydell Chevy surprised me. They gave me a low price over the web and stuck to it with no hassle. A dealer closer to us advertised a cheaper price, but they were actually over $2000 more than Rydell.

 

I agree that this is a lot of talk about nothing. Bolts were discounted pretty much from day one. In fact GM designed the roll out so this would be the case. Had they wanted higher prices we'd have seen a national roll out with dealers fighting over allocation. Instead we see California dealers with lots of inventory. And lots of inventory means many reasons to discount. All this means is the GM can produce cars in numbers.

The Bolt is a great choice. It's relatively inexpensive, has lots of space, and is small and nimble for local driving. Yes it's not a look at me car but neither is the Leaf or i3 or pretty much the rest of the electric car lineup. (To some extent I think the car companies have been a victim of their own thinking. They want range so they think it needs to be small. But once you go in that direction then your'e limited in the design). It's a very practical car which I suspect will prove popular enough.

What I find amusing in having this come from Tesla folks is the inconsistency. On the one hand they claim the Model 3 is cheaper, which it won't be by a very large margin. On the other they claim a lower price means the car is dead. Hmmmmm........ Seems like you need to pick one or the other. LOL Then again, Wall Street analysts paid to have an opinion have never been known for their accuracy. As Yogi Berra so famously said: "It's hard to make predictions. Especially about the future."

 

Remember Tesla can't discount anything since they are losing their ass making cars right now. Going forward the resale of Tesla's will be horrible because they are not well made and they are continuing to upgrade essentially the same car- How much do you think a 60Kw Tesla is worth and who would want one. The model S is 7 years old. The Model 3 will be essentially a pilot production car sold to the public. Tesla can't service the few cars they have manufactured to date. The Model 3 roll out will be a joke and it won't happen until next year.

 

Tesla has discounted cars, even after they said they don't. Near the end of a quarter, Tesla prices fall like a co-ed's panties after tequila shots.

 

There's some debate about who at Tesla authorized the discounting...Musk claims it was at the dealership level and they were exploiting/abusing loopholes to achieve the discounts...Musk stated he put an end to all discounting, only damage/demo/service loaners would be approved to discount and that he would personally need to greenlight the discount...

With that being said, generally speaking they tend to offer some level of "discounting" towards the end of the quarter...That's when they offered the 60 models and also the 2 year lease...I'm sure in the future there will be some sort of supercharging perks/incentives for the end of quarter...This is part of Tesla's marketing plan and gives them free media exposure...

 

It doesn't take a genius to realize people who went and bought a Bolt as soon as it came out were getting had. Suckers abound. Like I said before, all they had to do was wait a few months and save thousands.

 

So what proves the Model 3 is alive? There aren't any in public hands.

 

With 400,000 reservations made.... they have to produce something.... even if it takes till 2019.

 

though I read that tesla 3 was to roll off the line end of next month and no beta , straight to customers

 

though I read that tesla 3 was to roll off the line end of next month....

I would be amazed if the M3 was produced in significant numbers by this time next year!

 

let see , they stop producing 60kw model s
that in it self open up line time for the m3
they just did a cash call that raised a bunch of cash
and it not like they haven't produced an all electric vehicle before
and you are right , what they said they were going to do by when and when it happened , didn't always align

 

Probably weren't enough orders for the 60kw version or it wasn't profitable enough

 

Well, for what it's worth, Tesla called me last Friday to schedule the installation of my PowerWall 2's.

 

The only way I see a non-release for the M3 is if Tesla pulls a PR stunt and "automatically upgrades" everyone to a "M4" or whatever they will call their entry level model when it's finally ready.

In any case, it will be fascinating to see how Tesla handles the $35k pricing they've been promising for their "every-man's EV"....

 

nav from your cell is fine when you have connection
in the back mountains I drove off the end of the map because the cell could not update it

 

There seems to be some confusion regarding the development of the Volt, and perhaps the Bolt.

The Gen 1 Volt was NOT fast tracked according to GM's own accounts, though this is a matter of definition, as follows. The Gen 1 Volt was basically engineered by 2008 as I recall. It then had to wait until the battery technology was refined enough to install. Apparently they had enough time to get the extremely complex software nailed!

The Bolt uses the same technology except a new design for the new skateboard platform that incorporated the body into the 'frame' for stiffness. It was actually a year later than I predicted so had to make do after I returned my Gen 1 Volt.