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Per the article:

"drivers like the one in the Subaru sure are making the case for autonomous cars…"

Couldn't have said it better myself...

For the record my mother, a chronic worrier, had been bugging for nearly the last decade to never text and drive...Roughly two years ago she got her first smartphone and started texting...Just this past Monday I texted her if she was free to chat I get a reply "Driving to the supermarket but on the phone with my sister, I'll call you when I arrive"...When we spoke and I shamed her she said "I didn't even realize I was texting while driving!"...Told her ignorance is bliss...Point being distracted driving will get worse before it gets better...
 

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....caused by "the other guy".....

Something that a human can learn to avoid.

I recall a video of a forum member hitting the side of a car that made a left in front of him by passing through a gap in the lane next to him. I didn't want to rub his nose in his mistake, but that incident was completely avoidable even though the wreck was the other person's fault (failure to yield right-of-way). I'm not sure a machine would have the ability to know this, not that our human friend did any better. But if a machine fails in this situation, it will fail with regularity.
 

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not that our human friend did any better. But if a machine fails in this situation, it will fail with regularity.
I see it as the opposite, humans are getting more and more comfortable with distracted driving as cars deploy all sorts of connected content...

Machines on the other hand, humans are adding Algorithms/coding to the software all the time...After this accident I would take a bet if Vegas would take it that more Algorithms/coding will be added to increase the odds of preventing this type of accident again in the future...
 

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....caused by "the other guy".....

Something that a human can learn to avoid.

I recall a video of a forum member hitting the side of a car that made a left in front of him by passing through a gap in the lane next to him. I didn't want to rub his nose in his mistake, but that incident was completely avoidable even though the wreck was the other person's fault (failure to yield right-of-way). I'm not sure a machine would have the ability to know this, not that our human friend did any better. But if a machine fails in this situation, it will fail with regularity.
There are a lot of situations that a human would spot but not a computer program. A good example is a guy in pickup slowing down next to a turn lane jammed with traffic. A human knows that he's looking to cut in. At exactly what point do you give up and let him in? If the algorithm is too conservative, cars will be cutting in all the time. If the algorithm is too aggressive, we'll have accidents. The algorithm will need to take account which section of which city, which weather and time of day, and what kind of car we are dealing with. One answer is 100% self driving, or at least communicating, cars. But that will take a while.

My favorite case is Manhattan, where double parking is endemic. If there are three through lanes and the car on your left or right is blocked by a double-parked car, you are expected to see the situation, brake, and let him in. Drivers from out of town either learn the rules or stay out of Manhattan.
 

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The algorithm will need to take account which section of which city, which weather and time of day, and what kind of car we are dealing with.
This is actually one of the easier things to achieve, simple learning algorithms will slowly update the vehicles on the optimum combination to get the best flow through. All the parcel services do something similar just that it is executed by a human driver.

The bigger concern for me is the actual sensor performance. Right now the camera's, radar and even the LIDAR is quite low resolution and fail at the drop of a hat. If you remember that was the problem with TESLA driver who ran into the side of a truck.
--------------

That said I can't wait for autonomous cars to get here, it will be much better... even Gen 1.0 tech...
 

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I wonder if this might've been one of those situations where the self-driving car was behaving ultra conservatively (to account for its lack of situational awareness/intelligence) and therefore behaved differently than 99% of human drivers would behave at a given intersection... and therefore the unusualness/unexpectedness of the Bolt's behavior contributed to the collision because the human driver(s) didn't expect someone to stop there.

The article makes it sound like the Bolt came to a full stop at a pedestrian crossing with a flashing yellow, but didn't say that there were any actual pedestrians, which makes me assume there were none. If I were behind someone needlessly coming to a full stop like that, I'd probably want to slam into the back of their car just to spite them. ;)

(I'm not saying the Subaru driver wasn't technically at fault, mind you. And I agree that they were probably distracted.)
 

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I see it as the opposite, humans are getting more and more comfortable with distracted driving as cars deploy all sorts of connected content...
Perhaps you're not old enough to remember when lighting a cigarette was the number one cause of accidents. I won't argue that adding devices increases the likelihood of distracted driving, but I would suggest that ever since we turned or car seats into living room furniture (an analogy I got from a CHP officer) we've become somewhat insulated to the dangers of driving. All told, devices are just one of many distractions and focus is at the mercy of the driver, not the distraction.

Machines on the other hand, humans are adding Algorithms/coding to the software all the time...After this accident I would take a bet if Vegas would take it that more Algorithms/coding will be added to increase the odds of preventing this type of accident again in the future...
I absolutely expect these kind of remarks. Wake me up when we're there. Until then monkeys may fly out of my butt.

There are a lot of situations that a human would spot but not a computer program. A good example is a guy in pickup slowing down next to a turn lane jammed with traffic. A human knows that he's looking to cut in. At exactly what point do you give up and let him in? If the algorithm is too conservative, cars will be cutting in all the time. If the algorithm is too aggressive, we'll have accidents. The algorithm will need to take account which section of which city, which weather and time of day, and what kind of car we are dealing with. One answer is 100% self driving, or at least communicating, cars. But that will take a while.

My favorite case is Manhattan, where double parking is endemic. If there are three through lanes and the car on your left or right is blocked by a double-parked car, you are expected to see the situation, brake, and let him in. Drivers from out of town either learn the rules or stay out of Manhattan.
Good points, and I'm sure there are many more.
 

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No autonomous driving is ever safe if it has to share the road with stupid drivers. It's not the autonomous driver system's fault.


http://gmauthority.com/blog/2017/03/cruise-automation-chevy-bolt-ev-involved-in-traffic-accident/
If we could magically flip a switch and suddenly all vehicles on the road were autonomous using the very latest technology, I'll bet the following would happen:

1. Accident rates would absolutely skyrocket
2. Fatalities would skyrocket
3. All surface street travel times would double.

Maybe in 20 years. Hope I'm dead and gone (by natural causes) long before this insanity gets more traction and worse yet, nanny-state mandated adoption.
 

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According to the article, a Bolt, which is sub-compact was stopped, behind it was a Highlander, which is a large SUV was stopped behind it...If you look in your Bolts rearview, even if you have the fancy display mirror you might not have even have seen the smaller Subaru coming because the large SUV has your view blocked...

I absolutely expect these kind of remarks. Wake me up when we're there. Until then monkeys may fly out of my butt.
We are already there...People (ironically because they're not perfect) wrongfully compare autonomous driving to perfect...Yet they're not perfect, I'll just go ahead give you benefit of the doubt that you were simply born genetically gifted, are immune to any possible distractions and have never in your life been in an automobile accident...The average Joe is not as perfect as you, accidents are a way of life, humans get into accidents all the time...As long as autonomous tech gets into fewer accidents than humans, it's already won...Heck, the Toyotas (middle car) air bags went off, that a pretty serious hit and ruined the day for its occupants...If the Subaru driver even had auto emergency braking, which BTW overrides driver input, odds significantly go down of the Toyotas air bags deploying and at best, the whole accident could have been avoided...Fine by me if you want to quote this but more autonomous accidents and even deaths will happen, but it'll be less than human drivers...The current average of automobile deaths in the United States are 90/day...
 

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I'll just go ahead give you benefit of the doubt that you were simply born genetically gifted, are immune to any possible distractions and have never in your life been in an automobile accident...The average Joe is not as perfect as you...etcetera.....
Well we're jumping to conclusions today are we?

I've been in 2 minor incidents in my life and both were both my fault, and the result of allowing myself to be distracted. I guess I really am an imperfect average Joe.

.....more autonomous accidents and even deaths will happen, but it'll be less than human drivers...The current average of automobile deaths in the United States are 90/day....
I don't think anyone is in a position to say if accidents/injuries will go down or up with autonomous vehicles mixing in with human drivers. It's unfounded confidence (or lack of) IMO. I don't have any numbers but I'll bet if you compare total hours driving between autonomous and human drivers, the humans have a better average so far. It's too soon to draw any conclusion from that, because there is really no fair way to make that comparison.

My point was about blame. Let's have a look at the aforementioned accident:


The incident starts around 0:27, though it really started much sooner. Neither vehicle can see the other until the last second (and no AV would have done better). So who's fault is it? Legally it was the woman's fault. It was suggested that the guy in the Escalade might have waved her through. Was it his fault?

He could have avoided this by recognizing the possibility that a car might be crossing through one of the gaps in the lane next to him and slowing down. I like to think I would have. I really wonder if you can program an algorithm for that. But I was programmed for it when I took driver's ed in high school in 1977.
 

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MisterDave, clearly there's a difference of opinion with which is safer, humans vs machines...It goes without saying that its coming, all we can do is ensure top talent is working it...GM was about to deploy supercruise and still aquired Cruze for $1B...

It's baffling how a rational person could say they didn't know they were texting while driving.
I hear things like this all the time, people say one and do another...A coworker was very anti-texting, got a divorce and got into tinder...While driving, replying to tinder messages became more attractive for him...
 

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...

The incident starts around 0:27, though it really started much sooner. ...
I've seen those several times. I'd like to say I spotted the accident well before it happened, but that is cheating since I knew it was an accident video.

I saw the gap, saw the hard braking, and saw the Escalade stop. I did not know if it was a pedestrian or debris or a car, but I knew something was wrong.

Fault is no longer even significant here in CA. There are so many people who are driving badly without insurance that all crashes are OUR fault financially no matter who has the right of way. People don't always realize that if an uninsured motorist runs into you, you are on the hook for the deductable and it scores against you with the insurance as a claim.
 

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MisterDave, clearly there's a difference of opinion with which is safer, humans vs machines...
I have some experience with machines. Software engineers and the challenges of their work as well.

It goes without saying that its coming.
Sure it is, and it'll be very important for a small number of people.

I've seen those several times. I'd like to say I spotted the accident well before it happened, but that is cheating since I knew it was an accident video.

I saw the gap, saw the hard braking, and saw the Escalade stop. I did not know if it was a pedestrian or debris or a car, but I knew something was wrong.
The clues are there. The question is will the machine see them.

Then there's the whole thing about what people expect from other drivers. Stop short unexpectedly and BAM - you're rear-ended. I really hope these machines learn to drive like people. I've heard some talk about it. A story about an AV waiting forever on a double parked car because it wouldn't cross the center line.

Around here people go at a minimum 5 to 10 over the speed limit and more than that on the tollway. If you're doing 55 (assuming the machine obeys traffic laws) then you become a hazard, forcing people to go around you. In driver's ed the teacher was very emphatic - "Keep up with the flow of traffic!" There was an entire movie on what happens when you don't.

Fault is no longer even significant here in CA. There are so many people who are driving badly without insurance that all crashes are OUR fault financially no matter who has the right of way. People don't always realize that if an uninsured motorist runs into you, you are on the hook for the deductable and it scores against you with the insurance as a claim.
Another reason I don't regret leaving. Sorry, that isn't meant to be an insult - just a truth. The coasts are becoming an exercise in alternate reality. I'd rather drop some blotter if I feel the need for alternate reality, but I gave that up a long time ago. ;)
 

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Around here people go at a minimum 5 to 10 over the speed limit and more than that on the tollway. If you're doing 55 (assuming the machine obeys traffic laws) then you become a hazard, forcing people to go around you. In driver's ed the teacher was very emphatic - "Keep up with the flow of traffic!" There was an entire movie on what happens when you don't.
Interesting point.
I guess it will only be an issue during the transition phase, once it's all Johnny Cab... no speeding! :D

My drive to work yesterday would have been a good test for an autonomous vehicle....
On a three lane divided expressway posted at 55mph for the entire length of the road- I was doing 66mph in the right lane. People in the middle and left lanes were literally blasting by me like I was standing still. At work I commented to an associate who drives the same road- he said he was doing 87mph in the left lane and they were right up his butt at 32mph over the 55mph posted speed limit... a few even blasted by him too he said.
What would the autonomous vehicle do in a case like that?
 

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Interesting point.
I guess it will only be an issue during the transition phase, once it's all Johnny Cab... no speeding! :D

My drive to work yesterday would have been a good test for an autonomous vehicle....
On a three lane divided expressway posted at 55mph for the entire length of the road- I was doing 66mph in the right lane. People in the middle and left lanes were literally blasting by me like I was standing still. At work I commented to an associate who drives the same road- he said he was doing 87mph in the left lane and they were right up his butt at 32mph over the 55mph posted speed limit... a few even blasted by him too he said.
What would the autonomous vehicle do in a case like that?
It will need to do the same as a human does when driving a lot slower than the average: increase speed when people are approaching too fast. If it can't speed up then it can try to get the attention of the idiot behind: flash hazards, move around the lane, etc.
 

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Interesting point.
I guess it will only be an issue during the transition phase, once it's all Johnny Cab... no speeding! :D

My drive to work yesterday would have been a good test for an autonomous vehicle....
On a three lane divided expressway posted at 55mph for the entire length of the road- I was doing 66mph in the right lane. People in the middle and left lanes were literally blasting by me like I was standing still. At work I commented to an associate who drives the same road- he said he was doing 87mph in the left lane and they were right up his butt at 32mph over the 55mph posted speed limit... a few even blasted by him too he said.
What would the autonomous vehicle do in a case like that?
I live near I-88. I joke that people take that as the speed limit. West of here the speed limit is 70, but towards the city it's 55 and we have 3 speeds that people normally drive - one for each lane. Left lane is 75, middle lane is 70 and the right lane is anything goes. The right lane might have a 55 driver holding things up, or a 90 driver trying to pass on the right.

Figure that one out, coders of algorithms. Perhaps the name of it would be "convoluted speed function"?

...the idiot behind....
Yes it's always the other guy who's the idiot. I think George Carlin pointed that out well - R.I.P.

...once it's all Johnny Cab... no speeding!
Or speeding becomes safer? Why have limits at all?
 
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