[Sly Bob]

Looks like GM is investing in DC fast charging and it's a lot faster than the Tesla Supercharger.

https://insideevs.com/gm-vehicle-extreme-fast-charging/

One article I read said that it should be available soon but it looks as though it's just a research project at this time.

 

[somms]

https://insideevs.com/chademo-power-400-kw-surpasses-ccs/


P(kW) = I(A) × V(V) / 1000

For some relevant comparison, the recently announced CHAdeMO 2.0 fast charging standard would require @1000VDC battery pack voltage (Bolts/Volts are <@400VDC) to be able to deliver 400kW at a maximum current of 400 Amps (which also happens to require a liquid-cooled cable)!

 

[wordptom]

Sounds like important advances for charging methodologies that will never be affordable or feasible for home charging installations... what sort of pricing "mark-up" will be acceptable? $15-$20 for a 10 minute/180 mile "while you wait" charge (think "restaurant" pricing vs home dining)? Perhaps with locations near theme parks or other vacation destinations... Fill up once when you arrive, and have plenty of fuel for driving around the area, fill once more for the trip home...

 

[obermd]

Sounds like important advances for charging methodologies that will never be affordable or feasible for home charging installations... what sort of pricing "mark-up" will be acceptable? $15-$20 for a 10 minute/180 mile "while you wait" charge (think "restaurant" pricing vs home dining)? Perhaps with locations near theme parks or other vacation destinations... Fill up once when you arrive, and have plenty of fuel for driving around the area, fill once more for the trip home...

Since the Bolt can fully charge in 8.5 hours on a L2 charger I'm not sure faster charging is needed for the majority of homes.

 

[JRRF]

Since the Bolt can fully charge in 8.5 hours on a L2 charger I'm not sure faster charging is needed for the majority of homes.

Agreed. And when you think about it, the ability to home charge is in some sense a stumbling block for the roll out of fast charging systems. As an example, if everyone had a slow fuel pump at their house, think how many gas stations wouldn't exist today. And so fast charging infrastructure will, by definition, look different from gas station infrastructure. There will simply never be as many fast chargers as there are "fast" gas stations. And the placement of those fast chargers is a strategic decision.

Regardless, it's nice to know Chevy is on the right track. I think the liquid cooled cable idea is incredible. They will also have to get lots of power to the station that has these special chargers and cables.

 

[Sly Bob]

This isn't about charging at home. It's about getting those people that worry about range anxiety and are afraid to take a BEV on a long trip. You wouldn't need 180 miles in 10 minutes often but it would be damn nice when you did.

 

[JRRF]

This isn't about charging at home. It's about getting those people that worry about range anxiety and are afraid to take a BEV on a long trip. You wouldn't need 180 miles in 10 minutes often but it would be damn nice when you did.

Yes. But there's a conundrum here. The fact that you can charge at home (albeit slowly), and the fact that most Volt owners accomplish 80-90% of their driving without gas (similarly I'm sure 80-90% of all EV driving is accomplished with home charging alone), it makes it harder to figure out where you really need to spend money on super chargers. There will never be a need (or cost benefit) for them to proliferate like gas stations. So where do you spend money on this infrastructure?

 

[scottf200]

Yes. But there's a conundrum here. The fact that you can charge at home (albeit slowly), and the fact that most Volt owners accomplish 80-90% of their driving without gas (similarly I'm sure 80-90% of all EV driving is accomplished with home charging alone), it makes it harder to figure out where you really need to spend money on super chargers. There will never be a need (or cost benefit) for them to proliferate like gas stations.


So where do you spend money on this infrastructure?

Heatmaps for several EV car manufacturers here:
https://gm-volt.com/forum/showthrea...eatmaps-and-EV-related-data&highlight=heatmap

 

[obermd]

Yes. But there's a conundrum here. The fact that you can charge at home (albeit slowly), and the fact that most Volt owners accomplish 80-90% of their driving without gas (similarly I'm sure 80-90% of all EV driving is accomplished with home charging alone), it makes it harder to figure out where you really need to spend money on super chargers. There will never be a need (or cost benefit) for them to proliferate like gas stations. So where do you spend money on this infrastructure?

Not really. The first step will be the interstate system. Next will be the major secondary roads followed by the cities with large EV concentrations and high percentage of the population living in multi-family dwellings.

 

[JRRF]

Not really. The first step will be the interstate system. Next will be the major secondary roads followed by the cities with large EV concentrations and high percentage of the population living in multi-family dwellings.

Apartments and such is another discussion entirely. I doubt you will ever see lots of charging stations on secondary roads, or even possibly in cities. Maybe in parking garages. But otherwise, when you come off the highway into the city, you are charged up and shouldn't use more than a full battery before you leave the city. If you live there, or park overnight, you might have this capability in a parking garage. And people rarely travel long distances on secondary roads, so how much use would those get?

The bottom line is, every charging station has to be profitable or it won't exist. Today Tesla has these for their customers, and it's baked into their profit (or in their case lose) picture. Who would want to own an EV charger on a secondary road where most people traveling there charge at home? You'd never make a profit.

 

[wordptom]

Since the Bolt can fully charge in 8.5 hours on a L2 charger I'm not sure faster charging is needed for the majority of homes.

It’s not about being able to charge at home. L1 or L2 charging is fine for home recharging for daily commuting.

You might have no need for high speed recharging at home, but my point is that even if you wanted to, you could not. For most people, high speed recharging will never be affordable or feasible for home charging. The usefulness of fast charging lies elsewhere.

Why do people pay restaurant prices or even fast food prices instead of eating at home? To save time? To get a dining experience they can’t get at home? The kitchen is being remodeled?

And for those times when you’re not at home, what do you do about eating? Seek out a restaurant? Make do with the microwave in your hotel room?

Think of a high speed recharging station as the automotive equivalent of a restaurant. What’s a good location for a business whose customers are seeking to refuel their vehicles quickly? Somewhere where the drivers have other things they want to do with their time...

For example, your family has just arrived in at a resort / theme park / travel destination area for a week’s vacation... fully recharging the car will give you enough fuel to take care of your around-town driving needs for the week, so you want to get it done quickly... what are the choices? An 80% charge in 30 minutes? A full recharge in 10 minutes? Certainly it’s going to cost more than it would to recharge overnight at home... If there’s a recharging station in town that will do it in 30 minutes, I’m willing to pay a reasonable price, and perhaps a little more if it can be done in 10 minutes while I wait... And when the week ends, another 10 minutes will fill my tank for the trip home...

Keep in mind there is a difference between a restaurant and a grocery store. A desire to refuel quickly is not the same as a need to refuel, and dining at a restaurant is not the same as grocery shopping... a charging station serving those who can’t make it home without more fuel (or don’t have fuel at home) has a different customer base than a charging station serving those who are temporarily away from home.

 

[hellsop]

Since the Bolt can fully charge in 8.5 hours on a L2 charger I'm not sure faster charging is needed for the majority of homes.

It's NEVER needed for homes. Only charging away from home is this stuff even relevant.

 

[scottf200]

Looks like GM is investing in DC fast charging and it's a lot faster than the Tesla Supercharger.
https://insideevs.com/gm-vehicle-extreme-fast-charging/
One article I read said that it should be available soon but it looks as though it's just a research project at this time.

That story is talked about in this article:

https://www.torquenews.com/6094/tesla-model-3-vs-gm-s-chevy-bolt-who-king-fast-charging
About the author: Simon Barke holds a PhD in physics, is employed by the Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering

The real story behind the new GM chargers

If you read the news about GM’s new 400-kW chargers, you may be under the impression that GM is spending 7 million dollars to innovate the future of 400-kW chargers. Nothing could be further from the truth. 3.5 million dollars of the program are paid for by taxpayers (U.S. Department of Energy). Delta Americas leads the program with GM just being one of many minor partners.

Furthermore, the proposed technology is not really about the high power output - after all, 400-kW is only marginally more compared to already existing 350-kW chargers in the U.S. and Europe. The key aspects of the new development effort are high “grid-to-vehicle” efficiency, small size and low weight while still providing a high voltage DC output. The proposal is based on solid-state transformers and these systems may very well play a major role in the future of battery electric vehicle charging. The Delta Americas press release also talks about how the three year project will “provide insight into how renewable generation can be integrated to avoid infrastructure strain on the power grid”. These are challenges that Tesla has already solved with the combination of solar cells and battery energy storage at Supercharger locations. Most of their new 3rd generation stations will be completely off-grid and provide 100% renewable energy. First and foremost the new project is a taxpayer sponsored attempt of GM to catch up with the already deployed super high power chargers by Electrify America and evaluate already proven regenerative and grid-protecting solutions by Tesla. The added research on new transformers that could make chargers smaller and lighter is a nice bonus, but it will not be a game changer of any kind.

And what about this compelling 180-miles-in-10-minutes figure? The press release states that the 400-kW chargers will enable “tomorrow’s long-range EVs” to charge 50 percent in just under 10 minutes. The 180-mile figure stems from an imaginary 360-mile EV. However, a battery which requires 400-kW to charge 50% in 10 minutes would have a total capacity of 133-kWh. This results in a a vehicle with a terrible efficiency. A Model 3 would require only 225-kW to charge 50% in 10 minutes adding 155 miles in the process. Working prototypes like the 200-kWh capacity 620-mile range new Tesla Roadster would theoretically be able to add 207 miles of range in 10 minutes on a 400-kW charger - while increasing the state of charge by only 33%. It becomes clear that the arbitrary “180 miles in 10 minutes” is a fictional number based on imaginary future vehicles. It’s main purpose: good headlines. Mission accomplished.

 

[Dutch]

All I want (right now) is supported/maintained lev 2 charging at highway rest stops so you can rely on getting a charge -someplace-

Hell I don't even care if it is just a row of 240v outlets and "bring your own evse"

 

[JRRF]

All I want (right now) is supported/maintained lev 2 charging at highway rest stops so you can rely on getting a charge -someplace-

Hell I don't even care if it is just a row of 240v outlets and "bring your own evse"

Something is better than nothing, but if your BEV is getting low, even 50 miles/hour is not much when you're stopping just for a bite to eat.

 

[Dutch]

I know, but I also know politics and if you can get a base support structure in place (say all rest stops) then getting that infrastructure UPGRADED becomes WAY easier (yes I'm being sneaky)

 

[Ladogaboy]

GM's contribution in this is simply to provide the vehicle for testing purposes because no current vehicles are up to the task. They are supporting Delta's initiative. I wouldn't say that there is nothing in it for GM, but it's also far from self promotion.