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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-hyundai-ioniq-plug-in-hybrid-first-drive-review

IIRC, the Ioniq comes with power seats and a moonroof. I think it is supposed to take on the Prius Prime-- while not as fast, and not as rangy as a Volt-- it will be cheaper (unless Chevy dealers start offering deals).

If it gets 30 miles or more on electrical power alone (they have said in the past (see Green Car Reports) at least 27), it will be eligible for sales tax exemption in WA state.
 

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A gas car that sometimes uses a battery to move the car. Not for me.
 

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PHEVs certainly have their place as a gateway to BEVs. Also a nice complement to a BEV in a 2 car family where no compromises (time, cost, etc.) want to be made on a long trip.
 

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Looks like its still a hurdle to meet or beat the Chevy Volt. 100% electric power until the battery is depleted, no matter if your climbing Pikes Peak.
 

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"Pulling out onto a busy boulevard, we suppressed the urge to floor the accelerator, instead dipping maybe halfway into the pedal’s travel. And the engine fired up." "60 HP electric motor." "8.9kWh"

The 2011 Volt is still the King of the Plug-In Hybrids after 6 years.
 

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The article has a missing detail: "While the Volt and the Prius Prime let you lock in electric mode for a distance that’s within daily commuting range for many Americans..." because the Ford Fusion Energi can also lock in "EV Mode" only for at least 22 miles (and maybe more if the driver isn't lead footed) *. So the new plug-in Hyundai Ioniq still has three competitors: Chevy Volt, Ford Fusion Energi, and then the Toyota Prius Prime (which will remain in third place!).

The Ioniq doesn't charge the battery while driving in gas mode:"The one thing Hyundai’s first Sonata plug-in hybrid had that this model doesn’t is a charge-restoring mode that uses the gasoline engine to recharge the plug-in portion of the battery (albeit while using a great deal more fuel). " This is actually needed because the gas engine can do both jobs (power the vehicle and charge the battery) in both the Chevy Volt and Ford Fusion Energi (I don't know if the Prius Prims can). I also question how many electric motors the Ioniq has, because the past Hyundai and Kia hybrids only had one electric motor, which is dangerous if the car is driving up a hill in electric mode, and suddently needs the gas engine. It was demostrated in a documentary that the electric motor releases the transmission through a clutch to start the gas engine, and the car began to roll backwards downhill!! If that was in traffic, the car driving behind will hit you because the brake lights don't turn on if that happens. The other hybrids do have two electric motors (one for traction and one as the starter/generator). Until I read more about the electric motors, I cannot recommend the Hyundai Ioniq.

* The Ford Fusion Energi Owner Manual is available online as proof of this detail. And an as added detail, the Fusion Energi is the only one of this group that is a medium size, five full seat sedan. The Volt and the Prius Prime are compacts.
 

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A gas car that sometimes uses a battery to move the car. Not for me.
Yes, that is a "electric assisted" gas engine hybrid. The Volt is a "gas engine range extender" electric, but also a hybrid because it has two power sources and it doesn't need "gas assistance" unless the battery is discharged.
 

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Why do all of the other car companies undershoot?. The Ionic PHEV has half the EV range of the Volt and the Ionic BEV has half the range of a Bolt. The new BMW i3 also has half the range of the Bolt, the new i3 REX has great battery range, 94 miles which is much better than the Volt, but they crippled it by keeping the ridiculous 2 gallon tank, if they were to spend $5 more and put in a 9 gallon tank they would have a car that beats the Volt instead they have a car that can't be taken on a road trip unless you are willing to stop at every gas station along the way.
 

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the new i3 REX has great battery range, 94 miles which is much better than the Volt, but they crippled it by keeping the ridiculous 2 gallon tank, if they were to spend $5 more and put in a 9 gallon tank they would have a car that beats the Volt instead they have a car that can't be taken on a road trip unless you are willing to stop at every gas station along the way.
If they added a larger tank to the i3 ReX, it would not be considered a ZEV. You see .. BMW was trying to get ZEV credits for the i3, and having more gas range than EV range would nix that. This is also the reason why the older i3 ReX had the gas tank capacity limited by software, to ensure gas miles were less than EV miles. Now that they have more EV range, they just removed that software limit.

And if they added a larger tank, the i3 ReX gas generator is not designed for extended driving (unlike a Volt, which can go indefinitely using just gas). The ReX was added as a remedy to range anxiety .. and primary goal was to reach the next charging station .. not not to keep filling gas and running indefinitely, though it is definitely possible.
 

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If they added a larger tank to the i3 ReX, it would not be considered a ZEV. You see .. BMW was trying to get ZEV credits for the i3, and having more gas range than EV range would nix that. This is also the reason why the older i3 ReX had the gas tank capacity limited by software, to ensure gas miles were less than EV miles. Now that they have more EV range, they just removed that software limit.

And if they added a larger tank, the i3 ReX gas generator is not designed for extended driving (unlike a Volt, which can go indefinitely using just gas). The ReX was added as a remedy to range anxiety .. and primary goal was to reach the next charging station .. not not to keep filling gas and running indefinitely, though it is definitely possible.
Further witness to this is that the REx also seems to limit the speed at which the car can be driven to 70 or the REx just can't keep up even on a flat road, and if you want to drive for more than about 70 miles on the REx at a time, you had better be going about 55 MPH instead of 70 (where you can probably squeak it up to a hundred miles of REx range). It really is an EV with a range extender and absolutely no more than that.
 

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Why do all of the other car companies undershoot?. The Ionic PHEV has half the EV range of the Volt and the Ionic BEV has half the range of a Bolt. The new BMW i3 also has half the range of the Bolt, the new i3 REX has great battery range, 94 miles which is much better than the Volt, but they crippled it by keeping the ridiculous 2 gallon tank, if they were to spend $5 more and put in a 9 gallon tank they would have a car that beats the Volt instead they have a car that can't be taken on a road trip unless you are willing to stop at every gas station along the way.
My wife's new i3 which has the larger battery hit a range of 141 miles on EV the other day. So the claimed 114 EPA rating has been blown out of the water. It's a fantastic car. It drives so differently than my Gen II Volt. Night and day.
 

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Why do all of the other car companies undershoot?. The Ionic PHEV has half the EV range of the Volt and the Ionic BEV has half the range of a Bolt. The new BMW i3 also has half the range of the Bolt, the new i3 REX has great battery range, 94 miles which is much better than the Volt, but they crippled it by keeping the ridiculous 2 gallon tank, if they were to spend $5 more and put in a 9 gallon tank they would have a car that beats the Volt instead they have a car that can't be taken on a road trip unless you are willing to stop at every gas station along the way.
I think most doubted GM would deliver the Bolt so quickly let alone have it actually have more range than initially stated. Throw in that most probably also discount Tesla from delivering on time and it almost makes sense. The development cycles are obviously still too long, apparently GM figured out how to vastly shorten time from drawing board to production.

I just cannot see buying any pure EV that has under 200 mile range, its like buying a car with drum brakes no ABS and bias ply tires. Your obsolete on day one
 

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I think most doubted GM would deliver the Bolt so quickly let alone have it actually have more range than initially stated. Throw in that most probably also discount Tesla from delivering on time and it almost makes sense. The development cycles are obviously still too long, apparently GM figured out how to vastly shorten time from drawing board to production.

I just cannot see buying any pure EV that has under 200 mile range, its like buying a car with drum brakes no ABS and bias ply tires. Your obsolete on day one
Overall I am highly impressed with what GM delivered with the Bolt, but extremely disappointed that they didn't make the fast charging standard equipment. A 200+ mile EV without fast charging capability is just a long range commuter.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The question is if you have the Ioniq PHEV with say, 31 miles range, power seats and a moonroof and with the safety features are possibly 5000 cheaper than the Premier, would you buy it?
 

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The question is if you have the Ioniq PHEV with say, 31 miles range, power seats and a moonroof and with the safety features are possibly 5000 cheaper than the Premier, would you buy it?
I sat in all three variants of the Ioniq at a car show back in Jan. The other thing it offers, in all three variants, is leg room for the center passenger in the rear seat. It seems like a very credible offering - especially compared to what Toyota is doing. However for my purposes, I would still choose the Volt due to the vastly superior powertrain performance and range. We don't really miss power seats or a sunroof - though I know they are important to others.
 

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Looking at the current line of Plug in hybrids, I think my wife and I will just keep our 2016 Volt. My wife drives 32 miles a day round trip to her business, and still has more than a few miles left when in town to run errands or meet clients.

Hard to believe that after 6 years, when the 2011 Volt came out, no other auto company can match it. Nearly all Plug ins when you floor it will somewhere along the line kick in the gas engine. Now, with the Volt, the electric motor will run full power until the battery is empty, I know there is a certain amount of reserve left, before the gas engine lights up.

Our last trip to Portland Oregon, my wife and I, via Highway 26, from sea level to 1,642 feet, 3 passes each way, 6 total, round trip, we went a little over 46 miles on electric and the rest on just good old Costco 87 octane and still got 50.8 mpg, just on gas. Total miles about 170 with nearly 70 mpg combined average.

I just wonder if under the same conditions if any of the other current plug ins could do as well..
 

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The question is if you have the Ioniq PHEV with say, 31 miles range, power seats and a moonroof and with the safety features are possibly 5000 cheaper than the Premier, would you buy it?
With 25% weaker acceleration, and the inability to accelerate briskly without the ICE running I would compare it to the Prius Prime, not Volts.

Some of what you are paying for with Volts is the higher than average performance for a 'green' car. Only the Bolt, i3, and Teslas will out accelerate the Volt on pure EV power. And all three of those are more $, $$, $$$ respectively.
 

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I think most doubted GM would deliver the Bolt so quickly let alone have it actually have more range than initially stated. Throw in that most probably also discount Tesla from delivering on time and it almost makes sense. The development cycles are obviously still too long, apparently GM figured out how to vastly shorten time from drawing board to production.

I just cannot see buying any pure EV that has under 200 mile range, its like buying a car with drum brakes no ABS and bias ply tires. Your obsolete on day one
I don't think so. Comparing range to devices that play more of a role critical to safety is comparing apples to oranges.

Range is something people WANT...not NEED. I don't need a 7 passenger SUV but having the space would be nice. But I can live without it.

The issue of range has become a bigger factor than it needs to be only because the charging and fill-up times are an issue. No one complains about going about with only two gallons of fuel in their car (which gives on average about 50 miles of range) only because they can quickly pull in and fill up.

It's the range that's an issue....it's the ability to recharge that is. But even then, when most people don't NEED that range but want it, it becomes a psychological issue that plays on fears more than anything else.
 
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