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Discussion Starter #1
I noticed the Cadillac web site has a section on the hybrid CT6. It will go on sale early 2017. Is it the same hybrid system as the Malibu? (Answering myself:) I guess not, since it's pug-in. Is it more similar to the Volt? I wish somebody would clear this up.
 

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AFAIK, the Malibu, Volt 2 and CT-6 will all use the same 'Voltec 2 multi-mode electric transaxle'. Basically, the electrified transmission (though it is far more than just a gearbox with a motor like some 'plug-ins' are).

I believe they will be using different engines though, in the case of the Malibu I think it is a 'more normal' 1.8L over the Volt's 1.5L that has some special adaptations for the different duty cycles.

I seem to recall the CT6 is getting some 2.0L affair, but that's some hazy memory that might not be correct.

But basically the electric bit and the transmission are the same design, but will be 'fed' with different engine and battery configurations, and of course this will mean different programming of the way the transmission functions.
 

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It's a fancy Volt with less battery range and better acceleration. The CT-6 only has 30 miles of battery range which is pretty awful for a $75K car, what were they thinking? Why didn't they put in a bigger battery and price it higher to cover the cost. If I were going to spend $75K on a car it wouldn't be that one. 30 miles of battery range is a tease, I find the 53 miles that the Volt has to be on the marginal side, I'd be very happy if it was 100 miles (hope that the next Volt get's there), if it was only 30 I'd be angre and frustrated.
 

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It's a fancy Volt with less battery range and better acceleration. The CT-6 only has 30 miles of battery range which is pretty awful for a $75K car, what were they thinking? Why didn't they put in a bigger battery and price it higher to cover the cost. If I were going to spend $75K on a car it wouldn't be that one. 30 miles of battery range is a tease, I find the 53 miles that the Volt has to be on the marginal side, I'd be very happy if it was 100 miles (hope that the next Volt get's there), if it was only 30 I'd be angre and frustrated.
CT6 = Cadillac Touring Car model 2016. The hybrid version should be lighter than, and quicker to 60 mph than a Tesla Model 60 and WAY larger inside.

This will be the first car to receive SuperCruise. It was held up by the NHTSA because it does have autonomous functions that are not parking related.

The Hybrid's highest trim will only be Premium Luxury. I would think by the time you trim it, it will be $85k. Still unsure whether it will be offered with AWD, but it appears RWD will be the only version.

The big dawg is the 3.0 TT Platinum, which is be one of the finest large luxury sedans at any price. Expect $100k with the 5 massage functions front and rear, adj heated seats front and rear, world's best audio system put into a production car, personal entertainment systems for rear passengers, all-wheel-steering with the AWD cars, night IR vision, light weight, excellent handling with magnetic suspension, etc.

It is to a Volt as a 2017 Track Z06 is to a Fiat 500.
 

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The CT6 is rear wheel drive so no transaxles like the Volt and Malibu. I don't know how extensive the changes are to accomplish this but it could be done by turning the transaxle assembly 90 degrees and locking the forward facing axel so that the rear facing axel can turn a drive shaft. I suspect that it is similar to the Voltech in the Malibu in concept but the CT6 wont have the front axel differential at all.
 

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It's a fancy Volt with less battery range and better acceleration. The CT-6 only has 30 miles of battery range which is pretty awful for a $75K car, what were they thinking? Why didn't they put in a bigger battery and price it higher to cover the cost. If I were going to spend $75K on a car it wouldn't be that one. 30 miles of battery range is a tease, I find the 53 miles that the Volt has to be on the marginal side, I'd be very happy if it was 100 miles (hope that the next Volt get's there), if it was only 30 I'd be angre and frustrated.
It's more range than a bunch of the European plug-ins. And it'll have 30 miles of range for the same reason as the Pacifica: it's a large, heavy car.

More range would require more battery, which would add weight and take up space. If we could already have it all, BEV would already be a large chunk of the market.
 

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I actually know something about this car because I've been thinking about getting one. Might also get a Bolt EV to go with the ELR, or we could just keep the Volt. It still works. The great thing is we're getting more options.

CT6 = Cadillac Touring Car model 2016. The hybrid version should be lighter than, and quicker to 60 mph than a Tesla Model 60 and WAY larger inside.

This will be the first car to receive SuperCruise. It was held up by the NHTSA because it does have autonomous functions that are not parking related.

The Hybrid's highest trim will only be Premium Luxury. I would think by the time you trim it, it will be $85k. Still unsure whether it will be offered with AWD, but it appears RWD will be the only version.

The big dawg is the 3.0 TT Platinum, which is be one of the finest large luxury sedans at any price. Expect $100k with the 5 massage functions front and rear, adj heated seats front and rear, world's best audio system put into a production car, personal entertainment systems for rear passengers, all-wheel-steering with the AWD cars, night IR vision, light weight, excellent handling with magnetic suspension, etc.
I'm pretty sure the "6" stands for the size not the year. Bigger than a "5" (CTS?) and a "3" (ATS). It is spacious inside. I checked out a standard CT6 and was surprised to find how much more space it had than the XT5. Also how much nicer the interior was.

Not sure if it will be faster 0-60 MPH than a Model S but it will be very fast, close to the base for sure, but only if the TT 2.0L is also running. When the motors and engine are combined, it should be about as fast as the TT 3.0L 0-60 MPH but faster 0-30 MPH. More torque but less HP.

I think the price will pretty much be the price. There aren't a lot of options you can add. The battery pack takes up the space needed for the system which allows the rear wheels to turn with the front, which rules out adding supercruise. It also rules out adding the Bose system with a gazillion speakers. Other than these options it has pretty much everything, including the new infrared display for inclimate weather like fog (yes I want) and the rear seat entertainment systems (not really). Oh, and the weight of the batteries means you can't have the largest wheel sizes.

The body structure of this thing is amazing. Sure to come to trucks. Agree that calling this a souped up version of the Volt is absurd. I have no idea why anyone would say that. It's like saying the Model S is a souped up version of the Model 3. Other than most everything it's absolutely true.
 

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The CT6 is rear wheel drive so no transaxles like the Volt and Malibu. I don't know how extensive the changes are to accomplish this but it could be done by turning the transaxle assembly 90 degrees and locking the forward facing axel so that the rear facing axel can turn a drive shaft. I suspect that it is similar to the Voltech in the Malibu in concept but the CT6 wont have the front axel differential at all.
Yes, rear wheel drive. It also has three planetary gear sets instead of the two in the Gen 2 Volt (and one in the Gen 1 Volt). Another interesting difference is that (IIRC) MG-A is an induction motor-generator, rather than a permanent magnet motor-generator. There are some SAE papers on it.
 

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Here's a bit of info on the CT6 Plugin.

http://insideevs.com/cadillac-ct6-p...-spring-2017-with-30-miles-of-electric-range/

Short summary, it uses a variant of the Gen 2 Voltec propulsion system. It uses 5 clutches instead of the 3 used by the Volt. It is designed for RWD. Its coupled with a much more powerful 2 liter turbo ICE capable of something between 250-260 HP. In the hybrid configuration the total output is 335 HP but with 442 lb-ft of torque, which i believe represents the output of MGB electric traction motor plus the ICE. The CT6 Plugin will be able to to 0-60 in a quick 5.2 seconds. It will use the same battery as the Volt but repackaged in a vertical configuration behind and below the rear seat (less trunk volume and no pass thru). Probably due to the extra weight the all electric operation is available only up to 80 MPH, above that the ICE has to be turned on for blended operation. The system is biased more towards performance over efficiency, with overall efficiency only 65 MPGe.
 

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Yes, rear wheel drive. It also has three planetary gear sets instead of the two in the Gen 2 Volt (and one in the Gen 1 Volt). Another interesting difference is that (IIRC) MG-A is an induction motor-generator, rather than a permanent magnet motor-generator. There are some SAE papers on it.
Yep. The basic design of how things are hooked up to the planetary gears is a straightforward extension of the design used in the Volt and Malibu but things are repackaged because of the RWD design and probably to be drop-in compatible with GM's conventional automatic transmission the way the Malibu/Volt transaxle is with GM's typical 6-speed auto transaxle.

This means the internal gearing is quite different in how power flows than GM's older Two-Mode RWD hybrid transmission.
 

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Not sure if it will be faster 0-60 MPH than a Model S but it will be very fast, close to the base for sure, but only if the TT 2.0L is also running. When the motors and engine are combined, it should be about as fast as the TT 3.0L 0-60 MPH but faster 0-30 MPH. More torque but less HP.
Don't forget there's a WIDE variety of "Model S" number to compare with, from sub-3 second times, to barely sub-6.
 

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All I have to say is that if Cadillac priced the ELR at $50k instead of the original $75k, I'd be driving one. Once again the CT6 comes up short, it either needs 50+ miles of range or a lower price. In it's current configuration I think I'm better of spending that same money on a Tesla or an Escalade (more EV range or more cargo/people/towing, respectively)
 

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Once again the CT6 comes up short, it either needs 50+ miles of range or a lower price. In it's current configuration I think I'm better of spending that same money on a Tesla or an Escalade (more EV range or more cargo/people/towing, respectively)
Every one gets to spend their money the way they want to, but I couldn't disagree more. I don't need towing, and if it doesn't have a plug I'm not interested in the first place. So scratch the monster Escalade. On balance I think the CT6 likely offers more than the Model S. I like the hatch on the Model S but the back seat in the CT6 is way more comfortable for adults. The interior in the CT6 is also much better. On the tech side, some people would like autopilot but for me it has so many issues that overall I'd prefer ACC (that might change with time) and the CT6 has things like infrared. Then we get to the big one -- convenience on long trips. Frankly neither one of these cars is an ideal around car vehicle. Just too large. For long trips, which is what these large sedans are ideal for, having to stop for charge is a huge PITA that I'm unwilling to put up with. Too limiting, not to mention that there aren't chargers in a lot of places I'd go. The range isn't that much of a deal for me. Mostly I'm under 30 miles or over a 100, so the difference between 30, 40, and 50 miles of range for me is minimal. More is always better but not significant.
 

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Every one gets to spend their money the way they want to, but I couldn't disagree more. I don't need towing, and if it doesn't have a plug I'm not interested in the first place. So scratch the monster Escalade. On balance I think the CT6 likely offers more than the Model S. I like the hatch on the Model S but the back seat in the CT6 is way more comfortable for adults. The interior in the CT6 is also much better. On the tech side, some people would like autopilot but for me it has so many issues that overall I'd prefer ACC (that might change with time) and the CT6 has things like infrared. Then we get to the big one -- convenience on long trips. Frankly neither one of these cars is an ideal around car vehicle. Just too large. For long trips, which is what these large sedans are ideal for, having to stop for charge is a huge PITA that I'm unwilling to put up with. Too limiting, not to mention that there aren't chargers in a lot of places I'd go. The range isn't that much of a deal for me. Mostly I'm under 30 miles or over a 100, so the difference between 30, 40, and 50 miles of range for me is minimal. More is always better but not significant.
I agree the CT6 size is wonderful, and not having to sit at a charger for long trips is a nice plus. But my daily commute is now 65 miles per day, so going from a volt to a CT6 is a step forwards in comfort, and a step backwards in EV range and overall mileage. My kids really miss having the "barely 20 mpg on a good day with a tailwind" Deville.
 

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I agree the CT6 size is wonderful, and not having to sit at a charger for long trips is a nice plus. But my daily commute is now 65 miles per day, so going from a volt to a CT6 is a step forwards in comfort, and a step backwards in EV range and overall mileage. My kids really miss having the "barely 20 mpg on a good day with a tailwind" Deville.
Too bad you don't have a charger at work. That is a long commute. Hope it's not killer traffic.

My favorite thing in the CT6 were the seats. These were a surprise. They went up and down quite a bit, allowing you to go either with the SUV seating position or the sports car seating position. Should be a fantastic option for people who have trouble with the seat height. Befitting a car made for China, the back seats were extremely comfortable.
 

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Too bad you don't have a charger at work. That is a long commute. Hope it's not killer traffic.

My favorite thing in the CT6 were the seats. These were a surprise. They went up and down quite a bit, allowing you to go either with the SUV seating position or the sports car seating position. Should be a fantastic option for people who have trouble with the seat height. Befitting a car made for China, the back seats were extremely comfortable.
Not killer traffic at all. The first interstate has very little traffic and could be driven while half asleep. Then a switch to another interstate that has lots of trucks, so you do have to pay attention to sudden lane changes caused by onramp/offramp traffic. But it moves along at a steady pace and the only delays are caused by construction or a weather related accident. We definitely don't have the congestion issues of California. In fact, we call our traffic rush minute. If you are driving at 8am or 5pm, you might have to wait through one set of lights, then the traffic scatters enough that the rest of the commute is smooth sailing.

But definitely no charger at work. I've even looked into trying to rent an electrical closet to run my own meter, but corporate electric rates are much higher than residential, knocks for formula right out of the water.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The CT6 seems to be sort of a big gamble for GM. The whole concept is very different from its main competitor, Tesla. Will people go for a large, short-range, range-extended vehicle? The range may seem too short for lots of people. I for one wouldn't have a problem with a 30-mile range. It would have to get competitive mileage in gas-only mode. Anyway most CT6 buyers will probably get a fast charger.
 

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People need to realise that a CT6 is not a big car. It's a HUGE car. It's bigger than a BMW 7 series and was designed to compete with the 7 series. People have no trouble dropping over $75K on a regular 7 series why would people have trouble spending $75K on a competitive PHEV Cadillac? Any comparison to an ELR is irrelevant as the CT6 is literally nearly twice the size.

The reason the CT6 exists has nothing to do with either the USA or Europe. It's all about China. China due to heavy regulations is becoming one of the fastest growing PHEV markets. And China swallows luxury cars at an very fast rate. China is the second biggest market for Cadillac and has grown by more than 23% this year alone. Many people in China have drivers. And I wouldn't be surprised if the CT6 PHEV becomes the best selling Cadillac in China in 2017. Though in short order GM will be launching other PHEV Cadillac's.

Too qualify for maximum incentives in China a PHEV needs to be made in China and have a minimum EV range of 50kms (30 miles). In China the CT6 PHEV is actually rated for 60kms (37 miles) EV range. And the Chinese test is not that far different from the EPA test (unlike the very generous European ratings). The CT6 PHEV does not yet have official EPA ratings.

This is also why the CT6 is made in China. As this is where most of the volume is expected to go and the volume is not high enough to justify tooling two factories to make it. The CT6 has literally nothing to do with Tesla.
 

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It's actually designed for the Chinese market. The ICE models are intended for the US market.

The EV range would fine for us. The EV power remains to be tested. Not enough power in pure EV mode, no sale.
 
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