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It seems that China's BYD have broken through faster than A123's batteries. Are BYD's batteries different than A123's or did BYD have industrial espionage, copied and then improved on the same battery technology?

At any rate, it would be great if they build shop here to create competitive pressure on A123, which hopefully should lower battery prices.

http://www.lakeoswegoreview.com/sustainable/story.php?story_id=122090792762233800
 

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I read somewhere were BYD has a battery research department of 8000 people. BYD employs 120,000 people. BYD is a battery company that bought out a car manufacturer.
 

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Not so sure, if this is a good battery or not. The BYD’s cars can go 0 to 60 in 13.5 seconds, top speed is 90 MPH. Another thing is that how long will the battery last. I'm not so sure what the heck is "dual mode". This is what BYD claim-< “dual mode” models run on battery power at all speeds for the first 60 miles. In other words, the gasoline engine only kicks in if you drive more than 60 miles between rechargings.>- It seem the battery have a slow output to the motor.
 

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I'm not so sure what the heck is "dual mode". This is what BYD claim-< “dual mode” models run on battery power at all speeds for the first 60 miles. In other words, the gasoline engine only kicks in if you drive more than 60 miles between rechargings.>- It seem the battery have a slow output to the motor.
This is pretty much the same as most up-coming "plug-in" hybrids such as the 2-Mode Saturn VUE and the Prius PHEVs. Basically it's 2 batteries, one Depletion Battery that is charged by 110V cord to near ~99% and allowed to deplete to ~20% for the first x-amount of miles in full EV mode until a preset top speed when ICE starts up. Then once depleted switches to the "regular" hybrid battery and more typical parallel hybrid functions continue until the depletion battery can be charged again.
WopOnTour
 

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I understand what you saying, but what bother me is battery power at all speeds for the first 60 miles. If I drive the car at 30 mph until 60 miles that gas kick in is the same as if I drive 55 mph until 60 miles the gas kick in. Something wrong here in the electric point of view.
 

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I understand what you saying, but what bother me is battery power at all speeds for the first 60 miles. If I drive the car at 30 mph until 60 miles that gas kick in is the same as if I drive 55 mph until 60 miles the gas kick in. Something wrong here in the electric point of view.
Ahh, I see what you were getting at. I think most of the expected mileage post charge the various OEMs use is based on EPA drive cycles. But depending on how the hybrid transmission is designed to operate you might actually be able to "hold" 55mph using less peak energy than it took to get there.
WopOnTour
 

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A123 LiFePO4 very different from BYD LiFePO4

It seems that China's BYD have broken through faster than A123's batteries. Are BYD's batteries different than A123's or did BYD have industrial espionage, copied and then improved on the same battery technology?

At any rate, it would be great if they build shop here to create competitive pressure on A123, which hopefully should lower battery prices.

http://www.lakeoswegoreview.com/sustainable/story.php?story_id=122090792762233800
The A123 batteries, even though being LiFePO4, are very different from standard issue (BYD) LiFePO4.

The A123 batteries use nano particles of the iron-phosphate. Also they use doping for the electrodes.

The result is that A123 can discharge continuously at 30C (!!) and about 10 times higher than regular LiIons, and 3 times higher than standard LiFePO4 (BYD). A123 can also charge in 10 minutes, while no other battery can match that.

Also, the cycle life and cal. life of A123 is far superior to BYD. Finally the temperature range and internal impedance is also quite superior.

Its just that BYD batteries cost 1/4 that of A123.

But expect A123 to drop in price as they figure out their manufacturing issues and settle on a Chinese manufacturer. Also volume production will drop A123 costs.
 

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This is pretty much the same as most up-coming "plug-in" hybrids such as the 2-Mode Saturn VUE and the Prius PHEVs. Basically it's 2 batteries, one Depletion Battery that is charged by 110V cord to near ~99% and allowed to deplete to ~20% for the first x-amount of miles in full EV mode until a preset top speed when ICE starts up. Then once depleted switches to the "regular" hybrid battery and more typical parallel hybrid functions continue until the depletion battery can be charged again.
WopOnTour
So are you saying the depletion battery is a hi-C LiIon, while the "cruise" battery is an NiMH?

Seems to me a waste of engineering and manufacturing. LiIons are now cheaper than NiMH.

Is this another case of legacy baggage?
 

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But expect A123 to drop in price as they figure out their manufacturing issues and settle on a Chinese manufacturer. Also volume production will drop A123 costs.
God forbid they could somehow manufacture the batteries in the U.S.A. Now we'll have to inspect the batteries for melamine contamination. ;)
 

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The future is going to be Chinese (and Indian) - and it is really out of our control. Once EVs become standard issue, expect to be flooded with cheap and reasonable Chinese vehicles (e.g. Chinese bikes are cheap and very high quality and 90% of bikes sold in the US is probably Chinese). Already they are controlling the market in Lithium-Ion batteries.

One thing its not going to be is Russian (Oooops, sorry Yuri for my insensitivity to your delicate feelings).... ;)

Expect any day that the melamine inspector to be suicided!

Are you the one who is recommending my posts for censorship? :mad:
 

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Not I.

(The forum said the message I entered was "too short", so just ignore this filler)
OK, and I can tell you are a very decent person. :) --

BTW, your writing is impeccable. I tried to find sics, but failed. Not that it is my method to find sics, but I picked it up from somebody (wink wink). I said that in one of my censored posts. But in my books, that (language centricity) is not much of a credit. In fact it usually is a warning sign. Now before they recommend me off this battery thread, I get back on topic.
 
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