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I don't know if these cars will ever make to the U.S. as competitors for the Volt, but I do like the specs. No word on costs.

The Plug in Hybrid has a 100 mile range before the gas engine kicks in:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/03/byd-f3dm-plug-in-electric-hybrid-china.php

The Electric model will have a range of 186 miles.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/04/byd-electric-car-e6-crossover-mpv.php

The BYD batteries seem very impressive.
Hmm...

Wonder why GM can't just buy batteries from them and use those in the Volt?

Seems like that would bring the cost way down.
 

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Hmm...

Wonder why GM can't just buy batteries from them and use those in the Volt?

Seems like that would bring the cost way down.
That's got to be a scary thing for GM. If they get tied in with the wrong technology they could be in trouble for a long time.
 

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lithium irom phosphate

In the artical it says that they use the lithium iron phosphate battery. Isn't that the same chemistry that the a123 batteries use?
 

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In the artical it says that they use the lithium iron phosphate battery. Isn't that the same chemistry that the a123 batteries use?
A123 has its own patented lithium nano-phosphate design. One of those articles said BYD is using its own lithium-ion iron phosphate design. Which one is the most cost effective? I'd like to find out.
 

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The BYD batteries seem very impressive.
Everything on the internet can seem impressive. I'm going with the companies that have a known and proven track record for producing successful vehicles. If it just took cheap labor and good copying skills to build successful cars for the American market, why don't we have Chinese cars available to us now? It's super easy to say one is going to build and sell something, it's quite another to actually do it.
 

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Everything on the internet can seem impressive. I'm going with the companies that have a known and proven track record for producing successful vehicles. If it just took cheap labor and good copying skills to build successful cars for the American market, why don't we have Chinese cars available to us now? It's super easy to say one is going to build and sell something, it's quite another to actually do it.

I've heard a lot of hype about the performace specs on the BYD and Miles Javlon (which goes by a new name something-something-500 if I remember right). The Miles vehicle is suppose to hit production by the end of '08 in the US...where the hell are the press rides, let alone mules? I'm with you.
 

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Well the American market is a hard one to break. Who knows if BYD have mules or not. BYD is after all a Chinese company so I'm sure the news we get out of China is the the news they want out. It's not like they have their own Chevy-Volt forum (they might). I wouldn't put this past them though, because the more cars worldwide like this the better. BYD's battery research department is 8000 people strong. They are a battery company that bought a car company that is slowly applying their battery expertise to cars.

It's good to know that another car company has exactly the same concept as GM does. I believe that it only confirms GM's way to hybrids and I believe in the future that this type of hybrid where electric is the primary (and only) means for power and where the ICE is only used as an extender. I believe this to be the winning combination (the only type hybrid that I would consider) in the future.

I wish BYD success because China needs cars like this as much as the US does.
 

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Everything on the internet can seem impressive. I'm going with the companies that have a known and proven track record for producing successful vehicles. If it just took cheap labor and good copying skills to build successful cars for the American market, why don't we have Chinese cars available to us now? It's super easy to say one is going to build and sell something, it's quite another to actually do it.

I'm more interested in their batteries than cars. Why couldn't a 'real' car manufacturer like GM, Honda, BMW, etc buy these batteries and put them in their cars?

It sounds like they are similar to A123's but I'm thinking that since they are built with near 0 labor costs or environmental laws they would be significantly cheaper than a similar battery manufactured in the US. Since the battery is one of the most expensive parts of a PHEV, it could significantly reduce the final cost of the vehicle.

IMO.
 

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It sounds like they are similar to A123's but I'm thinking that since they are built with near 0 labor costs or environmental laws they would be significantly cheaper than a similar battery manufactured in the US. Since the battery is one of the most expensive parts of a PHEV, it could significantly reduce the final cost of the vehicle.
It could be that those other companies might be really worried about patent infringment problems. The BYD battery might just be a near knock off of the A123 battery. The Chinese don't really give a damn about intellectual property. I'm not saying this is the case, but it might be. This could work the other way too. If BYD was to be GM's supplier for the Volt, that would require GM to give up some sensitive information about the Volt's design. Again, the Chinese aren't know to protect intellectual property, particularly when they are aiming to be a competitor.

Other concerns would be quality control, another area that China doesn't always do so well in, and dependability of supply and interaction. If I were building a revolutionary new car, that at the heart of it's technology is one single component that matters more than all else, I would want that company just down the street, not half way around the world and I would want to be certain that there is no communication problems.
 

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It could be that those other companies might be really worried about patent infringment problems. The BYD battery might just be a near knock off of the A123 battery. The Chinese don't really give a damn about intellectual property. I'm not saying this is the case, but it might be. This could work the other way too. If BYD was to be GM's supplier for the Volt, that would require GM to give up some sensitive information about the Volt's design. Again, the Chinese aren't know to protect intellectual property, particularly when they are aiming to be a competitor.

Other concerns would be quality control, another area that China doesn't always do so well in, and dependability of supply and interaction. If I were building a revolutionary new car, that at the heart of it's technology is one single component that matters more than all else, I would want that company just down the street, not half way around the world and I would want to be certain that there is no communication problems.
I agree with all of your points but OTOH, GM already has a very strong working relationship with China since they sell many cars over there. So if anyone would do a coop deal with the Chinese, I would think it would be GM.
 

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I agree with all of your points but OTOH, GM already has a very strong working relationship with China since they sell many cars over there. So if anyone would do a coop deal with the Chinese, I would think it would be GM.
I agree. Eventually this will be the case. I just believe that as long as the battery, controller and motor are still considered "high tech" in the automotive world, they're not going to want to get too involved with Chinese manufacturing of these technologies. After they have been out a while and it's a well understood technology by everybody, then I can see them going great guns in China.
 

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I was just reading on a Chinese site that the BYD cars should be ready by the end of 2Q 2009.

If they hook up with an American company I think it's more likely to be Chrysler or a Smart/Penske type deal.
 

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BYD Launch in China

This from the Wall Street Journal.

SHENZHEN, China -- BYD Auto Co. is expected to unveil here Sunday what it claims as China's first mass-produced electric vehicle, the BYD F3DM -- one key reason why the investor Warren E. Buffett invested $230 million to take a 10% stake in BYD Auto's parent company.

Shenzhen City Mayor Xu Zongheng said Saturday the 2008 China High-tech Fair, opening here Sunday, will showcase, among other "innovative achievements" by Chinese companies, the F3DM, an electric car the home-grown auto maker is planning to launch in China by the end of November, pending government approval.

The F3DM (DM stands for dual mode) is an electric vehicle with a small gasoline combustion engine on board to charge the car's battery when it runs out or assist the electric engine when accelerating. The car, capable of going as far as 100 to 110 kilometers all on electricity when fully charged, is similar in design to the much-hyped Chevy Volt, which General Motors Corp. is scrambling to launch by the end of 2010.

With the F3DM, BYD is launching a so-called plug-in hybrid electric car two years ahead of GM and Toyota Motor Corp, the two global automotive giants that have pledged to come up with similar green cars by 2010. Both GM and Toyota say they are taking more time to make sure lithium-ion batteries they are using for their electric cars are safe.

BYD uses iron-phosphate-based lithium-ion batteries, which it claims it has developed on its own, for the F3DM. Wang Chuanfu, chairman of BYD Co. -- the auto maker's parent company, said those batteries are "inherently safe" because they are more chemically stable, although they compromise to some extent the ability to pack energy in each cell, compared with more conventional lithium-ion batteries.

Mr. Wang declined to provide a sales target or a price range for the new electric car, but he had said at an industry conference in Beijing earlier this year that the car could carry a price tag of about 150,000 Yuan to make the car comparatively more affordable.

This ability by BYD to offer a green car at an affordable price is one of the several factors that have spurred MidAmerican Energy Holdings Co., 87.4% of which Mr. Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway owns, to invest in BYD. According to BYD's Mr. Wang, the company may accelerate its plans for entering the U.S. and European markets by using MidAmerican Energy's money. It wasn't clear immediately when BYD plans to launch products in the U.S. and European markets, however.

The Shenzhen company, better known for being a top global producer of rechargeable batteries for cell phones and other devices, began producing cars in 2005. It has since become one of China's fast-growing home-grown brands with the gasoline-powered F3 compact sedan.
 
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