GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 20 of 55 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi i just came back for my first oil change after two years of driving with my 2013. My volt was showing 35% oil life left but i did it just to be on the safe side anyway. The service person of the dealership sold me to verified the wheel alignment because with all the holes in Calgary it is always a good idea, until now ok good they have to make a living and better safe then sorry.

My problem was when they tell me i need as a regular maintenance to replace the brake fluid every 25 000 miles or two years at 150$...... I told him i never did it in 35 years of owning cars and i was really perplex about why so soon and on a general idea of it. I was already late for work and i didn t have the time to argue more, so i said yes regretfully.

Today i check the owner manual and as i fear you need to do this only at 150 000 miles. Lesson learn but is there a way to stop them to steal money from us. I thought about it and my first action is to start this thread to expose this tactics to my fellow volt driver and hope to save someone else from making the same mistake. Second i am wondering if a GM representative can do something to stop the dealership for tarnish there name that way. It is really criminal to have somebody that represent your s company lie in front of my face like that. Just saying:mad:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
210 Posts
Do you know if the tech tested the brake fluid??? There is test equipment for brake fluids. It determines the amount of moisture in the sample. The more moisture, the boiling point is lowered. They do not use DOT5 synthetic because it does not absorb moisture. This charateristic allows the moisture to settle in the system and rusts away any parts the contain iron/steel. I did replace the fluid with DOT5 on my new Vette in 1985. By 1987 I had already had master cylinder failure due to rust accumulation in the metal springs in the master. Now 30+ years later, I still have that replacement master. I do on occasion drain the reserviors and refill them with fresh fluid. Many ABS manufacturers recommend changing and flushing every few years to protect the very expensive ABS pump and valve assembly. Just because you didn't do a fluid exchange for the cars you owned for 35+ years did not mean it wasn't recommended or needed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
985 Posts
It can only absorb moisture form the air if it vents to ambient air. Better systems isolate brake fluid with a rubber membrane. I've mostly seen it on motorcycles. Even then, flush of brake fluid is recommended.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,655 Posts
is there a way to stop them to steal money from us.
Yes, be informed, read the owners manual, especially the maintenance schedule. Take it with you. As always, it's "buyer beware". Performing unneeded service is a well-known scam in the auto-business. And I think they all do it, even the "good" dealers. They are trained to ask if "you want fries with that order". Some will stop with buyer resistance, other's like yours will lie to make you buy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I went in october for unrelated matter and there was no mention of any finding by the tech concerning the brake. Not in writting or verbally. When i took my appointment nothing was said about that and only when i was i front of him to gave him the key that he told me that the brake fluid need to be change on a regular base every 25000 miles. So what he said was that was the regular maintenance on a volt without any sample of any kind, same as engine oil change, and we need to do it at 25, 50 mile etc.

Second thing, normally when you align the wheel of a car i received a print of the result in digital number to prove you did it . Not With shagganappi GM what i received in print was alignment good , steering center period. Nothing more with that you have to ask yourself if they even did it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
25,000 to 30,000 miles really is a good time to replace the brake fluid. 150,000 miles is too long. Old brake fluid really does affect your braking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,942 Posts
BMW tried this on me. That's when I took another Volt test drive and the rest is history.
To be fair, all Eruos recommand a brake flush every 2 years. The Asians and the Domestics dont......

I recommend testing brake fluid at each oil change for copper contact, and replace as needed. I dont see it as a money grab if they can back it up with test results. In my opinion, they were doing you a favor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,942 Posts
...... I told him i never did it in 35 years of owning cars
So?


35 years ago you didnt have computer controlled solenoids on your ABS.

If they can back it up with testing, they did you a favor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,416 Posts
To be fair, all Eruos recommand a brake flush every 2 years. The Asians and the Domestics dont......

I recommend testing brake fluid at each oil change for copper contact, and replace as needed. I dont see it as a money grab if they can back it up with test results. In my opinion, they were doing you a favor.
Copper contact from what? BMW told me it was for moisture in the lines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,942 Posts
Copper contact from what? BMW told me it was for moisture in the lines.
Copper is the first indication of moisture.

http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/bra...mizes-internal-corrosion-in-the-brake-system/

Trade magzine article that explains it better then I could.

The test strips that check the chemistry of the fluid typically reveal the presence of copper in the brake fluid. When the corrosion inhibitors break down, the copper brazing alloy inside the brake lines tends to leach into the fluid. Copper is not present in new brake fluid, and is the first metal that starts to dissolve when corrosion attacks the brake lines. As a rule, brake fluid should be replaced if the copper content exceeds 200 ppm (parts per million).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
I have a couple of classic cars. The stuff that comes out of the brake system with old fluid is just nasty. Its not just the master cylinder, its all the lines. Brake fluid absorbs water, and then things start rusting. Brake fluid is not a lifetime fluid.
Plus brake fluid with water in it lowers the boiling temp of the brake fluid. So that one day that you need to brake hard and long, the brake fluid wont boil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,065 Posts
For the sake of this discussion....

This is/was a big item with the Nissan Leaf. Nissan recommends a brake fluid change every year or 15k miles. Here's a webpage discussing it: Here's Why Nissan Recommends Changing LEAF Brake Fluid Annually You can read the Nissan adviser's words.

In that discussion, they raise the possibility of electrical regen failure requiring more braking when descending a long grade. I've also seen the opposite point: That regen braking is used so much that the brake systems NEVER get hot enough to drive off any moisture (not sure how such could occur through sealed brake lines.)

Some time back, an anti-EV article used the Nissan-recommended brake fluid change to prove that the cost of maintaining an EV was higher than an ICE-run car. In fact, free annual maintenance offered by some makers and Nissan's not covering this also came into play.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
No test

If GM was in there owner manual recommanding every 25 000 miles to have the fluid tested and change as needed. I would be ok with that, no GM said in is 400 pages long owner manual that the regular maintenance is to change that brake fluid at 150 000 miles. The brake were acting normally. i check in oct all the liquid, and they where at the right level and same color as normal. So they did no test or took any sample, they juste decided to be busy with work that was unnecessary. We can do a lot of thing on a car just in case that is why there is a schedule of maintenance in the manual that the cie that built the car put in our hand. That schedule is there to make sur we dont brake something under warranty with something that can be easily prevented.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,013 Posts
As a motorcyclist I can testify that after 2 or 3 years or more the fluid starts to look like tea, then coffee, but the rate of degradation depends upon ambient moisture. If you live in the Gulf states or a rainy state, more frequent change can't hurt. Although the fluid may work for years two things can happen: the accumulated moisture vaporizes on that long downhill mountain stretch (less likely with Volt, of course) creating a loss of hydraulic pressure, or the wheel cylinders, master cylinder/relief port,etc. get so crudded up that braking gets uneven or ineffective. I like Dot 5 silicone-based fluid, but you have to start with a completely clean, dry system-which I did on one motorcycle-but few manufacturers specify this stuff for some reason.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
468 Posts
I leased a 2000 Grand Cherokee Limited way back when.
Took it in for service and told 'em to do whatecer is in the book.
They went to town and did everything under the sun, including changing fluid in the rear axle, flushing the radioator, etc.
Got a bill for $700.
Asked them what book they have been reading and they pointed out the "Severe Condition Driving Schedule" or some such thing.
It was defined as towing trailers in hot climate and heavy duty operation.
I refused to pay and pointed out the Jeep did not even have a trailer hitch and in flat Florida there is nothing severe.
Contacted the GM for the dealership and all was forgiven..
Buyer beware, they will try to screw you every time:(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,942 Posts
I leased a 2000 Grand Cherokee Limited way back when.
Took it in for service and told 'em to do whatecer is in the book.
They went to town and did everything under the sun, including changing fluid in the rear axle, flushing the radioator, etc.
Got a bill for $700.
Asked them what book they have been reading and they pointed out the "Severe Condition Driving Schedule" or some such thing.
It was defined as towing trailers in hot climate and heavy duty operation.
I refused to pay and pointed out the Jeep did not even have a trailer hitch and in flat Florida there is nothing severe.
Contacted the GM for the dealership and all was forgiven..
Buyer beware, they will try to screw you every time:(
Not enough data given in the post to say. But, the service advisor shoudl have communicated the cost and time frame of the services, and discuss with you what's being done. On your end, you should have asked how much it was going to be.


I can tell you first hand that Late 1990-Early 2000 Differentials were $hit on a shingle. You couldnt replace the fluid enough on those things. I've personally rebuilt a ton of them, and felt the recommandations by Chrysler were not often enough.


My point is, I will take a mechanics experiance and training over a generic one size fits all plan of attack.


Case in point, I recommand as maintence that a 12 volt battery be change every 4 years. The reason for this is in my experiance and training battery failures become much more frequent after 4 years.

Batteries are a component that will need to be changed as part of it's normal operatin life. My thinking is why not replace it when the vehicle is out of service at a time that their life is *likely* to end rather then have your wife call in a parking lot with a dead battery..... Having to buy a battery, a tow and the time and hassle.


Some people thought it was a terrific idea, and some thought I was just trying to rob them. In actuality i was looking out for their best interests based on my experiance and training.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,188 Posts
Do you know if the tech tested the brake fluid??? There is test equipment for brake fluids. It determines the amount of moisture in the sample. The more moisture, the boiling point is lowered. They do not use DOT5 synthetic because it does not absorb moisture. This charateristic allows the moisture to settle in the system and rusts away any parts the contain iron/steel. I did replace the fluid with DOT5 on my new Vette in 1985. By 1987 I had already had master cylinder failure due to rust accumulation in the metal springs in the master. Now 30+ years later, I still have that replacement master. I do on occasion drain the reserviors and refill them with fresh fluid. Many ABS manufacturers recommend changing and flushing every few years to protect the very expensive ABS pump and valve assembly. Just because you didn't do a fluid exchange for the cars you owned for 35+ years did not mean it wasn't recommended or needed.
You can't just dump DOT 5 brake fluid into any car. Unless the brake system was designed to take DOT 5 fluid you should NOT use it. You should only use the brake fluid specified by the car manufacturer. DOT 5 is NOT compatible with he rubber seals in some systems.
 
1 - 20 of 55 Posts
Top