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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Factory source says Bolt production capacity being Increased during shutdown

Quoting Don Lockrey

"I work at the factory. You’re article is wrong. We added an extra week for shutdown because of slowing sales of the sonic. I am assuming because of gas prices, as a 16k car isn’t as prized when gas is low. Another reason for the extra week was to complete bank systems and re do the assembly line to INCREASE Bolt production. The jobs are all set to produce bolts on a 2 Sonic, One Bolt mix. They are changing the mix to a 50/50 split which requires adjustments. For all the tesla fan boys, enjoy the squeaks rattles, fit an finish issues and recalls as your model 3 was crammed into a 5000 car a week schedule. Oh, you thought your waiting list to get your car was long? Wait till you have a service issue with no dealer network."

•Reply•Share ›

Steve Hanley Don Lockrey • 24 minutes ago
Thank you for sharing that insider perspective. Very useful information.

Above is from comments section on Cleantechnica article “Is General Motors Recreating The Saturn Disaster With The Chevy Bolt? (CleanTechnica Original) (7/19)
 

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Generally speaking if you need to be nasty to a competitor it means you are super scared of them....wishing success to the model three and the bolt....from a former model three reservation holder....cancelled 20 days ago and don't have my refund yet

Madmike
2017 Bolt
2014 Volt (can't bring myself to sell this car)
 

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I wish success to the Model 3 as well. If it's not designed, tested and built properly, it won't be as successful as it could be.
 

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This information doesn't surprise me. With the 50 state roll out scheduled to be complete next month and with people in Canada, South Korea and Europe begging for more cars (or still trying to get their first ones). GM needs to be building more Bolt EV's and Ampera-e's.
 

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Sounds like good news for the Bolt :)

And it's silly of him to insult the Model 3... many models have production rates >5000 per week with good quality, it's not like that is some sort of unattainable goal. Sure, Tesla hasn't done it before, but they are staffed with tons of engineers and managers trained at the big 3, it's not like they are a bunch of programmers trying to figure out how to build a car for the first time (which is how they're often painted).
 

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I guess we will see when the factory opens back up. If true, then we'll see an increase in production.

Of course, I must wonder why we are getting pushback from anonymous poster to an article critical of the Bolt and not directly from GM in response to the article.
 

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many models have production rates >5000 per week with good quality, it's not like that is some sort of unattainable goal.
Except they are skipping the production line debugging shakedown cruise that others use and going directly from drawing board to production for buyers. Maybe this new paradigm will work. But it would make me wait until other test crash dummies have had their car for a year.

We know that the Bolt was being tested on the road and the production line refined for a year before it's introduction. There is a reason GM and the others take this time consuming and costly step: Quality Control. There is also a reason Musk is skipping it: desperation, he needs the money.

Seems like a risky move, but maybe it sets a new manufacturing standard that Toyota, GM, Ford, etc. have not been able to achieve. It is audacious for sure. Hence the skepticism. Despite all the rigorous testing the majors do, there can still be issues with the new cars rolling off the line. Those are what's left after all the others were found and fixed during the year long pre-release testing.

Talk about "Monday cars", how about, "we've never done this before cars" on a production hockey stick escalation curve? It will be cool if that works, but I'll be participating from the sidelines, not from my bank account and driver's seat.
 

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I must wonder why we are getting pushback from anonymous poster to an article critical of the Bolt and not directly from GM in response to the article.
GM doesn't generally respond to gutter sniping. They don't do press conference to address every false or inaccurate story line someone decides to push. Maybe they should, but they don't.

We saw this in the early days of the Volt. People were claiming the battery would last only 4 years and would be $34k to replace, that GM were losing $150k (or a billion) per car sold, on and on. And of course that they go up in flames in an accident. None of this was remotely true, but GM never pushed back though many would have liked them to. Perhaps they figure they don't want to feed the trolls?
 

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If Mr. Lockrey wasn't authorized to make such comments he might not 'work at the factory' much longer.

KNS
 

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If Mr. Lockrey wasn't authorized to make such comments he might not 'work at the factory' much longer.

KNS
Assum that's his real name.
 

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Looks like a Don Lockery was the founder of Lockery Manufacturing, which looks like it very well could be involved in retooling the Orion plant for the increased Bolt production.
http://www.lockreymanufacturing.com/index.html
 

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Except they are skipping the production line debugging shakedown cruise that others use and going directly from drawing board to production for buyers. Maybe this new paradigm will work. But it would make me wait until other test crash dummies have had their car for a year.

We know that the Bolt was being tested on the road and the production line refined for a year before it's introduction. There is a reason GM and the others take this time consuming and costly step: Quality Control. There is also a reason Musk is skipping it: desperation, he needs the money.

Seems like a risky move, but maybe it sets a new manufacturing standard that Toyota, GM, Ford, etc. have not been able to achieve. It is audacious for sure. Hence the skepticism. Despite all the rigorous testing the majors do, there can still be issues with the new cars rolling off the line. Those are what's left after all the others were found and fixed during the year long pre-release testing.

Talk about "Monday cars", how about, "we've never done this before cars" on a production hockey stick escalation curve? It will be cool if that works, but I'll be participating from the sidelines, not from my bank account and driver's seat.
I won't claim to be an expert on automotive production, and I haven't closely followed all the Model 3 news, but I have seen spy photos of numerous Model 3s publicly driving over the last 6-12 months. I even thought I read they had been road testing 60-100 of them (I might be remembering that wrong). So I'm confused when I keep hearing they're not doing any real pre-production testing. Do we really know for a fact that they are doing something radically different, or is it possible they're doing a lot in secret (like lots of manufacturers try to do) and that meme was started by the numerous short sellers out there? If it's just a question of short calendar time of development... the Bolt sure seemed to be fast-tracked to beat them to market, and by all accounts so far they did a good job (granted GM has a lot more resources to work with).
 

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I wish success to the Model 3 as well. If it's not designed, tested and built properly, it won't be as successful as it could be.
The Model 3 is getting so much attention that it has become a symbol of the electric car movement. If it fails, it will hurt the reputation of all electric cars. We need it to succeed, and succeed big. That would usher in a rising tide of EV interest and adoption that will help the sales of all the EV manufacturers.
 

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Do we really know for a fact that they are doing something radically different, or is it possible they're doing a lot in secret (like lots of manufacturers try to do) and that meme was started by the numerous short sellers out there?
Tesla Model 3 production counts on risky assembly line strategy
EV maker hopes to avoid problems faced by its Model X by...skipping quality control step
http://autoweek.com/article/green-cars/tesla-wont-test-model-3s-assembly-line-starting-full-scale-production

Tesla Model 3 Will Skip Beta Phase, Go Directly To “Early Release” Cars
http://gas2.org/2017/03/18/tesla-model-3-will-skip-beta-phase-go-directly-early-release-cars/

New models start out as “alpha” cars. Those are usually prototypes and design exercises and are often used to help design the assembly line that will make the finished cars. The Tesla Model 3 alpha version was on display at the launch party a year ago and on rare occasions since then.

After that come “beta” cars. They are built on a special pre-production assembly line. In addition to helping engineers figure out how to actually build the cars in a factory setting they are often used for real world test driving — going to Death Valley to see how they handle intense heat, driving to Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan to test cold weather operation, driving over dusty back roads and on long stretches of interstate highways.

Last week, during a conference call with investment bankers involved with the sale of more Tesla stock, Elon Musk made a surprising announcement. He said the analytic tools Tesla has developed will allow the company to skip the beta phase entirely for the Model 3. He said his people will be driving early release Tesla Model 3 cars within “one to two weeks.”

That off hand remarks reveals several things about the upcoming Model 3. First, early release cars are built on the actual assembly line that will be used for normal production. So the Model 3 assembly line is complete and ready to go. Second, there will be no beta test fleet plying the highways and byways of America looking for glitches, parts that don’t fit right, or other issues that would affect the initial build quality of the cars.

Tesla’s big Model 3 bet rides on risky assembly line strategy
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-assemblyline-idUSKBN17Q0DE
 

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He said the analytic tools Tesla has developed will allow the company to skip the beta phase entirely for the Model 3.
Well, okey dokey then Mr. Musk.

Hard to believe that Tesla knows more about analytics than IBM. GM uses IBM software including Watson.
 

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Except they are skipping the production line debugging shakedown cruise that others use and going directly from drawing board to production for buyers. Maybe this new paradigm will work. But it would make me wait until other test crash dummies have had their car for a year.

We know that the Bolt was being tested on the road and the production line refined for a year before it's introduction. There is a reason GM and the others take this time consuming and costly step: Quality Control. There is also a reason Musk is skipping it: desperation, he needs the money.

Seems like a risky move, but maybe it sets a new manufacturing standard that Toyota, GM, Ford, etc. have not been able to achieve. It is audacious for sure. Hence the skepticism. Despite all the rigorous testing the majors do, there can still be issues with the new cars rolling off the line. Those are what's left after all the others were found and fixed during the year long pre-release testing.

Talk about "Monday cars", how about, "we've never done this before cars" on a production hockey stick escalation curve? It will be cool if that works, but I'll be participating from the sidelines, not from my bank account and driver's seat.
Tesla isn't shipping the first Model 3s to the general public. Tesla employees who put their money down were automatically moved to the top of the list for the very purpose of getting quick feedback from a group of "owners" who are more forgiving of early production run quirks.

There's a reason many people won't purchase a first model year car.
 

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So in other words, they are doing what GM is doing, except they claim it is in production 3 or 4 months earlier by selling it to their employees. Makes me wonder if they even have to pay for it. ;)
 

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So in other words, they are doing what GM is doing, except they claim it is in production 3 or 4 months earlier by selling it to their employees. Makes me wonder if they even have to pay for it. ;)
Unlike the bolts though the model 3 being sold to the employees are coming off the production line and not hand assembled test beds. So, yes production has started on the production line but they are testing all that are coming off with internal assembly plant employees to get instant feedback and change anything that is needed before getting them out to non internal customers probably sometime in September.

The only thing Tesla skipped was the initial tooling then throwing away that tooling and going to final tooling. Tesla has the highest tech assembly line in the world and this allows Tesla to skip what traditional car makers have to do to get their lower tech tooling right. This is what every car manufacturer will be doing in the next 5 years. Tesla is just doing it ahead of everyone else.
 

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Unlike the bolts though the model 3 being sold to the employees are coming off the production line and not hand assembled test beds. So, yes production has started on the production line but they are testing all that are coming off with internal assembly plant employees to get instant feedback and change anything that is needed before getting them out to non internal customers probably sometime in September.

The only thing Tesla skipped was the initial tooling then throwing away that tooling and going to final tooling. Tesla has the highest tech assembly line in the world and this allows Tesla to skip what traditional car makers have to do to get their lower tech tooling right. This is what every car manufacturer will be doing in the next 5 years. Tesla is just doing it ahead of everyone else.
I take you've never seen a modern robotic assembly line or tooling, am I right?

Your assumption that Tesla invented the modern assembly line is false. It MIGHT be the newest this month, but won't be for long. Cars are built by robots since I was a kid.

Did you think the prototype M3 cars last year were built by elves in the Black Forest? They were built with soft tooling, not magic pixie dust.
 

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So in other words, they are doing what GM is doing, except they claim it is in production 3 or 4 months earlier by selling it to their employees. Makes me wonder if they even have to pay for it. ;)
No. GM had a fleet of prototypes built 18 months before sale to the customer. Then GM moved to pre-production. The Bolt EV was in pre-production using soft tools from April 2016 to October before GM started a slow full production ramp.

Tesla built prototypes as well but these were hand built and moved strait to production tooling giving them only a couple of months to make modifications before going to customers hands. And a couple of months is practically no time at all.

Tesla has the highest tech assembly line in the world and this allows Tesla to skip what traditional car makers have to do to get their lower tech tooling right. This is what every car manufacturer will be doing in the next 5 years. Tesla is just doing it ahead of everyone else.
Actually I've been in and out of several automotive assembly plants. I see nothing special in what Tesla is doing other than they have skylights with red painted robots and white floors.

GM has flexible assembly lines that can manufacture multiple cars with hundreds of configurations all on the same line. GM Oshawa for example will be producing the XTS, Regal, Impala, and Silverado / Sierra on the same assembly line! And they are able to do so with about 15 labour hours per vehicle. Tesla seems to have troubles managing the few configurations of just the Model S and X on the same line.

Detroit Hamtramak Produces the Volt, CT6, Lacrosse and Impala (overflow) all on the same line. The parts sequencing and logistics is mind bogglingly beautiful.
 
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