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Discussion Starter #1
My only real concern is that the BOLT is being advertised as a $30K vehicle. But in reality the cost is $37,500 plus tax and tip. The rebate occurs if the purchaser has the tax bill to match. Still, the bottom line the car is going to be about $40K. My guess people are going to be turned off by that tactic.


Second note not quite related:
I am leasing a fully loaded 14 Volt. It does the job okay but it would have been a better deal if they had freed up most to all the battery. I can't make my usual round trips without going to the generator. It works but I'd rather run on electrons directly. The head lights high beams are a horror with the same intensity as low beam. It dangerous.

FYI:
I did own an OEM 98 S10 Electric and a number of hybrids. If the Volt had real 150 cold weather miles (heat lights and all that), i would consider it.

Thanks,

RT
 

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The Volt is discussed the same way, purchase price and the price sans-rebate. If you go to Chevy.com you'll see the Volt's full price as well as the price after tax credit. I see no reason to be concerned that Chevy will do it any differently for the Bolt EV.

Regarding your Volt, be happy that GM was conservative with babying the battery. Wanting more battery miles is natural, and GM's conservative approach makes sure you actually get the miles you expected. Given you leased, you'll likely want to look at a Gen 2 (or a Bolt EV) as it will give you the extra electric miles you desire.
 

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Tesla says their stripped Model S costs $55,900. It is actually $72,700 MSRP. But nobody complains about it. The real price is much higher for most folk though.

In any case, if you don't pay taxes, you simply lease. The full incentives apply.
 

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The Volt does a magic trick no other Hybrid does.

It can run at full rated HP on electricity. It runs at that same 149HP with zero miles on the EV display.

But it only has a 84hp gas engine.

It does this by using reserve capacity.

It's also how the Volt can push full EV hp at 1 mile left in range. Most EVs lose HP when the battery voltage falls.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The main stream advertising does state it but it's small print, it's in the details. People see the $30K and the rest is ignored. Talk to people. I'm a head hunter I talk to hundreds of people. We talk cars politics and all that. I bring up the actual cos and so many of them say I thought it was $30K, and these are not illiterate people. They see the main grabber and that what sticks in their head.

Not sure on the Bolt. It really looks like a Honda Fit. I had one. It was so ugly I had to sell it. I do truly believe in automotive design as an art form (for example: Ford GT40, Ferrari Daytona, Corvette GT, but then again $$$$$). I must have been on drugs when I purchased the FIT. I might consider a Tesla 3.

Maybe GM is thinking like BMW regarding the current younger purchaser is not as motor headed as some of us older folk are. It's just an appliance.

I just like electric power. It make sense. And the generator in the VOLT makes it usable, but wishes, wishes, wishes.

Re your comments on conservative over-build on GEN1.4 I have, I do understand. The V2.1 has not been safety tested yet for IIHS offset. And 50+ miles on E is still not good enough for real world E driving in the WASH METRO area except for Starbucks and local shopping, and that still eats the 45 miles I get on the V1.4 in short order.

RT
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Tesla says their stripped Model S costs $55,900. It is actually $72,700 MSRP. But nobody complains about it. The real price is much higher for most folk though.

In any case, if you don't pay taxes, you simply lease. The full incentives apply.

You don't live in VA and you still have to pay sales tax. It's all there in the purchase order. Some Leasing companys apply the rebate some don't.

I wasn't talking about the S. The S is a different economic level purchaser. The 3 and the Bolt is a "more every man/woman vehicle".
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I agree, yes it does. And I think for what it was designed for (other than those useless headlights) it does it rather well. They could have added some of the ELR upgrades too like electric seats. BTW they allowed more of the battery capacity for the ELR. They could have doe the same.

I had 2 Honda Insights and 2 Toyota Prius' and a Camry Hybrid. Yes I do know that. I would like to see that size vehicle with more E range, a lot more and a generator.
 

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BTW they allowed more of the battery capacity for the ELR. They could have doe the same.
The ELR had a Gen 1.5 battery, used as a test bed for Gen 2 Volt development. As a result, the Gen 2 Volts not only have a larger and slightly different battery chemistry, but also uses a bit more of the battery as you suggest. While the Gen 1 Volts were designed conservatively, they are proving to be remarkable durable overall. For those that buy and hold, how the battery performs 10 years on. or at 200k miles is a concern that the conservative belt and suspenders approach addresses rather well.
 

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I had 2 Honda Insights and 2 Toyota Prius' and a Camry Hybrid. Yes I do know that. I would like to see that size vehicle with more E range, a lot more and a generator.
I agree, I too would like a Gen I Honda Insight sized vehicle with more E range and a stick shift ICE.
 

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I agree, I too would like a Gen I Honda Insight sized vehicle with more E range and a stick shift ICE.
Not me, I want a voltec suburban. So no bolt or volt g2 for me.
 

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The problem with advertising a car for $30,000 that costs 37,500 is that the majority of purchasers will not be paying cash, and the 7,500 tax break is not figured into the purchase price of the car. If you base your purchasing choice on a 60 month loan and $32,500 financed purchase price (small down payment and sales tax included) you are planning on around $580ish car payment (with finance charge over 60 months)... when the finance guy at the dealership says your payments will be $700ish instead you are going to think he has lost his mind and ask what kind of scam he is trying to pull. Then after he explains it you either back out of the deal, go for a 72 month loan, or end up with a lease.

Keith
 

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The Chevy Bolt site http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle.html says "

Priced as low as

$30k3
after federal tax credit.
Net price shown includes the full $7500 tax credit. $37,500 MSRP including DFC with tax credit from $0 to $7500."

3 Priced as low as $30,000 after federal tax credit. Net price shown includes the full $7500 tax credit. $37,500 MSRP including DFC with tax credit from $0 up to $7500. * Tax, title, license, dealer fees extra. Actual savings from the federal government depend on your tax situation. Consult your tax professional for details.

That seems clear to me. But then, I tend to read things like owners manuals, legal contracts, etc. As things go, the "fine print" on the Bolt page is about 9 pt type. Pretty standard text size IMO.
 

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The problem with advertising a car for $30,000 that costs 37,500 is that the majority of purchasers will not be paying cash, and the 7,500 tax break is not figured into the purchase price of the car.
While I don't like the practice either, the sad truth is that all the EV manufacturers do this. They have to in order to stay competitive. If GM didn't do it then the Great Unwashed would just pass them up when they see the lower claimed price of the other EVs on the market. It is, like too many other things, just part of the race to the bottom.
 

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Which EV manufacture is going to blink and change how they list the base MSRP (before ANY state/federal credits).

If anyone was going to do it you would have thought Tesla would be that disrupter since folks looking to buy a Tesla don't need creative math to justify or afford the purchase, but they didn't in fact they added in fuel and even TIME savings in some of their ad copy which I thought was beneath them.
 

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Not me, I want a voltec suburban. So no bolt or volt g2 for me.
There's an old Suburban next door at the mechanical workshop right now, it has 'Vortec' on the cover above the engine.
I mentioned to the mechanic that it needs Voltec instead, he laughed, and said it is too heavy.
I disagree, I think a heavier vehicle would struggle less with a weight penalty than a light vehicle, because of the economy of scale.
 

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Before I got my Volt, I had been seriously considering electrifying an old Hilux that had a crook engine.
 

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Going to be interesting to see if GM holds that price or if 200 mile EVs drop quicker in price than sub 100s did. I still can't see the business case for continuing those EVs which get less than 100. Even the new i3 125/127/whatever range is going to be damn near impossible to justify at any price
 

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I have been watching "fully charged" episodes on YouTube, and one of them was a long interview with Carlos Ghosen on the future of Electric cars, and him saying that there would be small incremental range increases but that a mass market 200+ mile BEV was a long way off. This interview was about 4 years ago, so if by "long way off" he meant 5 years then he was correct... but he didn't mean 5 years or Nissan would have been the first 200+ mile mass market BEV instead of now trying to play catch up to GM. He didn't take Tesla's mass market plans seriously because frankly at the time of this interview the Model S had not been released, and nobody took any Tesla claims seriously with the cost over runs and delays of the Tesla Roadster. Even last year Ghosen wasn't worried about mass market 200+ mile BEV's because nobody takes Tesla time to market claims seriously any more, but Chevy jumping into the long range BEV game was a shocker!

Keith

PS: Interesting thing about the series, they were so focused on battery energy density being the limiting factor on long range that they didn't factor in cost. They were focused on the problem of getting a 60KW battery into the space and form factor taken up by a 24KW battery rather than getting a 60KW battery to cost the same as a 24KW battery... with chemistry incremental improvements and mass production economics of scale the battery cost per KW has plummeted over the last 5 years.
 
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