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Discussion Starter #1
I have a friend who is in the market, and who loves the idea of getting a Bolt.
She test drove my Volt yesterday and we're going over the advantages and disadvantages of each.

One thing we discussed about the Bolt is that 240 miles or so of range does work for her.

But I pointed out that in the winter she would not get that much range.

I use an estimation of 60% of range when it's really cold (subzero) in somewhat not great conditions when thinking about the Volt.

Is that a reasonably good guesstimate of how the Bolt will perform in those conditions? Is the climate control any more efficient? Obviously we'll have to wait for real world experience on this but I'm guessing some of you have already thought this through and have educated opinions.

Thanks in advance!
 

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I think 60% is a fair worst-case-scenario estimate, i.e. using comfort mode while driving at highway speeds on wet roads or rolling hills.

Depending on where you are in NY (assuming the friend is there, too), you might want to consider that there isn't much in the way of DC charging available, especially on 90, which could be a concern if it will be the friend's only vehicle. For instance, I was thinking about a Bolt until I realized there was no way I'd be able to reach my family in the Rochester area from where I live in Massachusetts.
 

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Very little info..."winter range" is a blanket statement consisting of lots varying factors such as:

What is the outside temperature?
What temp will your HVAC be set to?
Even if you plan keeping your HVAC at let's say 68f, will your significant other/passengers demand you put the heat on max?
Will you use the wheel/seat heaters?

Then other minor things such as:
Can you charge at work?
When parked at work, is your car exposed to the elements or are you in a structure?

As you can see, many many factors...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I think 60% is a fair worst-case-scenario estimate, i.e. using comfort mode while driving at highway speeds on wet roads or rolling hills.

Depending on where you are in NY (assuming the friend is there, too), you might want to consider that there isn't much in the way of DC charging available, especially on 90, which could be a concern if it will be the friend's only vehicle. For instance, I was thinking about a Bolt until I realized there was no way I'd be able to reach my family in the Rochester area from where I live in Massachusetts.
danieljw,

That's exactly the discussion we've been having. In the warm months, she could make the ride to NYC, for example... 220 miles.
But this time of the year, she could not.

90 WILL have a bunch of chargers on it in the next few years, and I'm told there will be DC. https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/go...ric-vehicle-charging-stations-across-new-york
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Very little info..."winter range" is a blanket statement consisting of lots varying factors such as:

What is the outside temperature?
What temp will your HVAC be set to?
Even if you plan keeping your HVAC at let's say 68f, will your significant other/passengers demand you put the heat on max?
Will you use the wheel/seat heaters?

Then other minor things such as:
Can you charge at work?
When parked at work, is your car exposed to the elements or are you in a structure?

As you can see, many many factors...
That's why it's a guesstimate

As far as charging at work, that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm asking about range on a charge in the subzero temperatures, in other words how far the car can go WITHOUT being charged
 

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In the warm months, she could make the ride to NYC, for example... 220 miles.
I wouldn't necessarily say that.

220 miles is approximately the EPA-rated highway range for a new Bolt. All you'd have to do to fall short of that is to drive a little too fast (I'm thinking typical highway speeds), have just a few percentage points of battery degradation, use a some climate control power, have underinflated tires, or drive into a modest headwind.... all of those things could easily knock enough off a Bolt's effective range to fall short of its rating.

I think realistically you'd need a substantial buffer, even in warm weather.
 

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I think all future battery-only cars should come with an optional natural gas (or other hydrocarbon) heater that is purely optimized for efficient heat generation - no propulsion side effects whatsoever. If you live in the deep South or SW - you can probably skip this option. If you're in upstate NY or anywhere north of the deep South, it would be a few hundred buck gotta-have add-on. It would make a massive difference in EV range during the fall/winter/early spring months as it would be considerably more efficient than a resistive heater. Just a thought:)
 

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I think all future battery-only cars should come with an optional natural gas (or other hydrocarbon) heater that is purely optimized for efficient heat generation - no propulsion side effects whatsoever. If you live in the deep South or SW - you can probably skip this option. If you're in upstate NY or anywhere north of the deep South, it would be a few hundred buck gotta-have add-on. It would make a massive difference in EV range during the fall/winter/early spring months as it would be considerably more efficient than a resistive heater. Just a thought:)
That sort of thing might be useful right now. In future generations, I don't think it'll be necessary/useful.

As DCFC becomes widely available along the routes people drive and larger batteries and faster charging develop, the value goes away - once you have plenty of range for the trip and charging with no delays or inconvenience covers any driving you do, there's no reason to carry the flammables and deal with the cost and maintenance and CO2 emission.
 

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Is that a reasonably good guesstimate of how the Bolt will perform in those conditions?
Given there are no Bolt EV's in the wild, everyone will have a guess, but that's all they are. My guess is no, it will not make it 220 miles to NY at highway speeds in the dead of winter with snow on the road and below freezing temps. Nor would I encourage her to try. I think of the Bolt EV as a metro area commuter with lots of extra range to account for winter range loss or the odd sidetrip.

Now if there were say one or two DC fast chargers along the way, and she was able to budget for an extra 30-60 minutes charging, it could be a different story. Me, I'd take the Volt on that trip instead.
 

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Now if there were say one or two DC fast chargers along the way, and she was able to budget for an extra 30-60 minutes charging, it could be a different story.
It looks like Upstate New York is quite bereft of DCFC for now unless you have a Tesla - the only thing I turned up on Plugshare outside of the NYC area is a single CHAdeMO in Kingston NY at a Nissan dealer.
 

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Go to EVTripPlanner.com and configure it for a Tesla MS60 (close to a Bolt) and enter all the variables and enter your trip and see what it says.
 

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I'm a 2017 Volt owner who's considering a Bolt as a replacement for our second family vehicle. This seems the best scenario, because the Volt can be used for any long trips, while the Bolt is ideal for suburban driving without range anxiety.

Until such time as recharge time is much faster, I don't anticipate that the majority of folks will be keen on using full EVs for extended trips that involve charging. That will need to wait for another generation or two of EVs.
 

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Until such time as recharge time is much faster, I don't anticipate that the majority of folks will be keen on using full EVs for extended trips that involve charging. That will need to wait for another generation or two of EVs.
Tesla owners take lots of road trips that involve charging; most are satisfied with the current capabilities. I would agree that anything much below current Supercharging rates would be annoying, and that 20-30% faster/longer range would be nice, but it's good enough now.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It looks like Upstate New York is quite bereft of DCFC for now unless you have a Tesla - the only thing I turned up on Plugshare outside of the NYC area is a single CHAdeMO in Kingston NY at a Nissan dealer.
There's at least one. Here in Ithaca in the heart of the Finger Lakes region of NY
 

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Discussion Starter #15
My guess is no, it will not make it 220 miles to NY at highway speeds in the dead of winter with snow on the road and below freezing temps. Nor would I encourage her to try.
Oh it's pretty clear it won't make it 220 miles in the dead of winter with snow on the road and below freezing temps.

My question is what's a good estimate for range in sub freezing temps with snow on the road. 60% of that?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I wouldn't necessarily say that.

220 miles is approximately the EPA-rated highway range for a new Bolt. All you'd have to do to fall short of that is to drive a little too fast (I'm thinking typical highway speeds), have just a few percentage points of battery degradation, use a some climate control power, have underinflated tires, or drive into a modest headwind.... all of those things could easily knock enough off a Bolt's effective range to fall short of its rating.

I think realistically you'd need a substantial buffer, even in warm weather.
I thought those test drives were done with highway speeds? Didn't they get about 240 miles?
Obviously until we have real world reports we'll have to note that there are no real world reports except in predesignated routes
 

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Based on what we've seen with the Volt and similar EVs, I would say at the worst it will lose 40 to 50% of the summer range.
Remember, there won't be an ICE to supplement heat in the cabin like the Volt.

Up here in Canada, during the coldest months of January and February ( -30c ) I do around 35kms, which is around 22 miles. And during summertime, I've seen and done 50 miles, more regularly between 46 and 48 miles.
 

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Hi there,

I live in Boulder Colorado and have 5 plus years of EV ownership under my belt. Others can disagree but based on using heat (as offered in Bolts, Volts I am guessing all EV products by GM) on days where you are running the heat you can see as much as a 50% (even more some times) reduction in range. The heat just drains the battery terribly.

I hope this helps, looking forward to my own Bolt one day.

Steve
 

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Oh it's pretty clear it won't make it 220 miles in the dead of winter with snow on the road and below freezing temps.

My question is what's a good estimate for range in sub freezing temps with snow on the road. 60% of that?
I would say that if you are looking at a 220-mile, one-way trip, I wouldn't expect to make it without a short stop even in fair weather. Who knows if you leave with a full charge? Who knows what you'd encounter along the way?

For me, I am putting the cap on my expected one-way highway trip at 180 miles (regardless of season). That way, I should make it to the charger with some battery left.

Now, in terms of winter losses, I've been using an old rule of thumb that originally applied to ICEVs: Expect to lose 6% range/fuel economy for every 10 degrees the temperature drops below 70 F. I would expect 160 miles of range at about 20 F on the highway, but that could also be affected by other factors such as comfort settings, speed, humidity, wind, etc.
 

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I thought those test drives were done with highway speeds? Didn't they get about 240 miles?
Obviously until we have real world reports we'll have to note that there are no real world reports except in predesignated routes
What test drives are you referring to?

The EPA tests are all done below 60mph, except for the supplementary "High Speed" test. Although I'm not even sure if that test is used for the Volt/Bolt tests. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml

If you take the Bolt's 238 mile rated range and adjust it by the combined and highway efficiencies, you end up with ~220 highway miles. But EPA highway miles are probably more optimistic that most real-world highway miles due to slower speeds.


One test drive that slightly exceeded the EPA range was C&D between Monterey and Santa Barabara, CA. But that guy took a scenic, slower route than you normally would. And he also included this observation: "Driving the Bolt EV at highway speeds, between 65 and 70 mph, also caused the number to begin dropping more quickly." http://blog.caranddriver.com/how-i-...e-chevy-bolt-ev-and-still-had-range-to-spare/

And on many highways, even 70mph would be pretty slow compared to the flow of traffic.
 
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