Bolt EV DCFC at home

18933 Views 42 Replies 27 Participants Last post by VoltenRock, Sep 25, 2017

mikeg3

Discussion Starter · Mar 17, 2017 (Edited by Moderator)

What would it cost to install DCFC at home?

Are there units suitable for home use? Which brands and models?

I currently have a 40 amp cable to the garage and a 200 amp breaker box,

Do I need three phase power? Digging up the street would be pretty expensive and the HOA would probably not permit overhead lines. Or, is the standard residential distribution line three phase and they just give different legs to different houses?

Or, is the whole ideas unfeasible?

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DonC

· #2 · Mar 17, 2017

Not suitable for home use. They would draw so much power that you would likely blow out the transformers. Also larger and very noisy. Since the grid would not be designed for these loads in a residential neighborhood, demand charges would make charging exceedingly expensive.

I've seen costs quoted as low as $10K but don't quote me on that. Note that unlike AC charging, where the charger is in the car, for DC charging the charger is outside the car. You have to pay for that.

viking79

· #3 · Mar 17, 2017

Yes, you need three phase, so in the US not really feasible unless you have commercial power.

Cost with easy access to three phase is probably around $20k.

There is absolutely zero reason for DCFC for residential use. 40 A 240 V should be plenty unless you drive hundreds of miles every day and need to charge in the middle. A car with short range like a Leaf benefits more from DCFC since you are more likely to need the added range intra day. It is unlikely you would run out of range during the day commuting and working with a Bolt EV (city range up near 260 miles or more) where you couldn't recharge overnight on level 2. If you would regularly have a problem with this it is the wrong vehicle (or convince somewhere near work to install a DCFC).

ClarksonCote

· #4 · Mar 17, 2017

With 40A you could get maybe a 10kW DC fast charger, if you can call that fast.

I suppose you could have another battery charged by this system that would then "dump" the energy into a car, but that's expensive. It would also have to be higher voltage than the car's battery.

The Level 2 AC charging standard actually goes up to about 19kW, but many of the on-board vehicle chargers (and, as a result, EVSEs) do not support charging this fast.

Bacardi

· #5 · Mar 17, 2017

High odds it would be cheaper to purchase/insure/register TWO Bolt EVs (always keep one you're not using on the charger) than it would be to get one with DCFC...

Mcgsp

· #6 · Mar 17, 2017 (Edited)

To give you an idea what it may run for what your asking. My neighbor just recently installed a 3 phase system for his residence(this include burying the lines from the utility pole to the meter), between the wiring from the transformer to the house alone was close to 10 grand. It required the utility company to replace the Y transformer with one powerful enough to accommodate him, he up the amperage as well to his abode. Do not know if utility absorbed cost for new transformer or not. This did not include installation of DCFC, which surprisingly he did not install, though he was considering it. He did install 60amp 240 charger. In short cost prohibitive for what you gain from it. And if you have a Volt, a DCFC, ain't nuttin that the darn thing will do for ole volty and if you purchased a Bolt, not sure I wish to fast charge a battery everyday.

telveer

· #7 · Mar 17, 2017

If you want "fast charging" at home, the only practical solution is maxing out the L2 solution already offered by the manufacturer. Commercial grade DCFC at home is not impossible but highly impractical and expensive.

Tesla cars can be equipped with dual 10kW charging ports (total of 20kW). If you want to charger faster than 7.7kw (which is what the Bolt supports) at home, this is one option. Or you can buy 2 Bolts!

If you want faster charging when you are at home, it is probably easier to move to a home that is very close to a DCFC station

flyingsherpa

· #8 · Mar 17, 2017

See here, 3 phase is not required, but that unit is $10k and needs around 138A.

hellsop

· #9 · Mar 17, 2017

flyingsherpa said:
See here, 3 phase is not required, but that unit is $10k and needs around 138A.

$8000 for a single port unit that works on single phase, $7500 for 3-phase. clicky-clicky

The dual port one with CHAdeMO as well is still $10,000 though.

theo1000

· #10 · Mar 17, 2017 (Edited)

My local utility upgraded my panel to 250 amps last year. And a 60 amp feed for my workshop for ~ $600 for each feed. It is rate limited as they are regulated utility, so no one pays the full cost to feed their home. I hired a local electrician to run the Al cables (way cheaper) for each feed @ ~$1,500 this included the copper bus elec panel and refeed and 3 visits. Cable was buried 4' deep per utility.

Utility guy said there was plenty of capacity to go to even a 500 amp panel if I wanted. And if everyone wanted. as well. Not sure what that means so YMMV. I'm thinking 100 amp for a DCFC may not be such a huge deal in my one case.
----------------

In the long term there will be a market for going DCFC @ home. Every so often now (once twice a month) I have to run to the local DCFC to recharge esp. on days like weekends when all my kids and relatives are cycling through.

Just this Sunday I have a run to airport + plus drop off and pick up @ swim meet + Run to my second job twice scheduled. Easily over 400-500 miles. If I can juice up a 100-150 miles/hr it should be doable but right now my Volt/BMW REX is going to be burning gas.

And I'm not and won't be an outlier where I live.

Why plug in over night when you can full charge in 15 minutes?

I also think in the really long term future as gas declines there will be fewer and fewer gas stations and pressure will be on to charge everything at home. The US residential infrastructure turns over at 1%-2% annually. It won't take a long time for something like that to become standard in at least upscale type homes.

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Jmaj

· #11 · Mar 17, 2017

My cheap overnight power rate has a 10 kw limit. Pretty sure that if the infrastructure turns over at 1% a year, Capt. Kirk will have been born by the time my power gets uprated.

realdb2

· #12 · Mar 17, 2017

I'm not technical enough to explain how this would work but I've always wondered why we couldn't have some sort of residential fast charging solution using batteries?

"Charge" the batteries slowly through solar or grid and then transfer than energy from the battery to an EV using a DCFC. That way you don't have to pull huge amounts of power from the grid.

theo1000

· #13 · Mar 17, 2017

realdb2 said:
"Charge" the batteries slowly through solar or grid and then transfer than energy from the battery to an EV using a DCFC. That way you don't have to pull huge amounts of power from the grid.

--Yup! that is the thought behind things like the TESLA power wall. But any such battery will likely have to be bigger than your EV battery so the numbers many not pencil out.

Soon enough, we will start seeing 120 kw to 150 kw battery packs, esp. for SUV/Truck type vehicles. At which point the L2 can easily become the limiter @ residential level.

theo1000

· #14 · Mar 17, 2017

Jmaj said:
Pretty sure that if the infrastructure turns over at 1% a year, Capt. Kirk will have been born by the time my power gets uprated.

heh! 50 years will go by like that, (snaps finger) ....

Don't ask how I know.

canehdian

· #15 · Mar 17, 2017

realdb2 said:
I'm not technical enough to explain how this would work but I've always wondered why we couldn't have some sort of residential fast charging solution using batteries?

"Charge" the batteries slowly through solar or grid and then transfer than energy from the battery to an EV using a DCFC. That way you don't have to pull huge amounts of power from the grid.

Yes, that is the only feasible way to do this without enormous expense.

The optimum solution is to be filling that battery with solar energy during the day while you're away, and dumping it into your car when the sun goes away.
You still get the benefit of driving "for free" without have to actually be consuming it in real time as the sun shines.

phil0909

· #16 · Mar 18, 2017

mikeg3 said:
Or, is the whole ideas unfeasible?

It's hard to imagine any scenario where this would be desirable. How often do you need to charge at dcfc speed, at home?

If it's often, you'd be much better off owning a gas car. If it's rare, you'd be much better off occasionally renting/borrowing a gas car.

hellsop

· #17 · Mar 18, 2017

theo1000 said:
--Yup! that is the thought behind things like the TESLA power wall. But any such battery will likely have to be bigger than your EV battery so the numbers many not pencil out.

MANY PowerWalls. PowerWall2 is 14kwh. Bolt is 60. That's FIVE, or $30,000 of PowerWall.

Qinsp

· #18 · Mar 18, 2017

hellsop said:
$8000 for a single port unit that works on single phase, $7500 for 3-phase. clicky-clicky

The dual port one with CHAdeMO as well is still $10,000 though.

Thanks for the link.

Yeah, a bit pricey, but the price has already come down a bit. It will come down more.

3 hour full charge at home or work? 30 min for 50 miles worth when you just need a bit more?

I could see it making sense if you have 2 or 3 EVs in the family, or own a business, or it was $2000.

somms

· #19 · Mar 18, 2017

10KW CCS Combo Portable Charger

Every Bolt sold with DCFC option should come equipped with its own CCS Portable Charger IMHO!

Off Oil

· #20 · Mar 18, 2017

The market would benefit from low power DC chargers like this in shopping centers.
ChargePoint Express:
https://www.chargepoint.com/products/commercial/cpe100/

This runs ~12,500 before installation. There is a reason these are used for commercial purposes. An installation doesn't make sense unless it gets a lot of use. Can you add it to your house, sure. Should you? Not unless you have lots of money you don't need, in which case I'll accept a donation.

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