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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I wanted to put together a list of actual hatchback Bolt competitors (i.e., not the Model 3) and discuss the general strengths and weaknesses of each. I decided to include these categories, which are all available at the base price: MSRP (including adjustments); fuel economy; 0-60 times; and cargo space.

Chevy Bolt EV
MSRP: $36,620 (Fed $29,120; CA $26,620)
Fuel Economy: 119 MPGe
0-60: 6.3 seconds
Cargo Space: 16.9/56.6 cu/ft
Curb weight: 3,580 lbs
1/4 mile time: [email protected]

Mini Cooper 4-Door Hardtop/Cooper S
MSRP: $21,950/$25,400
Fuel Economy: 32/26 MPG
0-60: 7.7 seconds/6.5 seconds
Cargo Space: 13.1/40.7 cu/ft
Curb weight: 2,750-2,900 lbs
1/4 mile time: (Unconfirmed ~14-15 seconds)

Mazda 3 Hatchback
MSRP: $19,095
Fuel Economy: 31 mpg
0-60: 7.4 seconds
Cargo Space: 20.2/47.1 cu/ft
Curb weight: 2,875 lbs
1/4 mile time: [email protected]

VW Golf GTI
MSRP: $24,995
Fuel Economy: 28 mpg
0-60: 5.8 seconds
Cargo Space: 22.8/52.7 cu/ft
Curb weight: 2,972 lbs
1/4 mile time: (unconfirmed ~14.4 seconds)

Ford Focus ST
MSRP: $24,775
Fuel Economy: 25 mpg
0-60: 6.3 seconds
Cargo Space: 23.8/43.9 cu/ft
Curb weight: 3,223 lbs
1/4 mile time: 14.9 seconds

Ford Focus EV
MSRP: $29,120 (Fed $21,620; CA $19,120)
Fuel Economy: 107 MPGe
0-60: 9.9 seconds (2016)
Cargo Space: 14.5 cu/ft (the rear seats don’t fold?)
Curb weight: 3,640 lbs
1/4 mile time: 17.7 seconds (2016)

Subaru Crosstrek
MSRP: $21,695
Fuel Economy: 26 mpg
0-60: 10.3 seconds (8.1 seconds manual)
Cargo Space: 22.3/51.9 cu/ft
Curb weight: 3,109 lbs
1/4 mile time: [email protected]

Audi A3 eTron
MSRP: $38,900 (Fed $34,732; CA $33,232)
Fuel Economy: 34 MPG/83 MPGe
0-60: 6.5 seconds
Cargo Space: 13.6/33.7 cu/ft
Curb weight: 3,616 lbs
1/4 mile time: (unconfirmed ~15.8 seconds)

BMW i3
MSRP: $42,400 (Fed $34,900; CA $32,400)
Fuel Economy: 118 MPGe
0-60: 6.5 seconds (7 seconds REX)
Cargo Space: 15.1/36.9 cu/ft
Curb weight: 2,799 lbs
1/4 mile time: [email protected]

Prius Prime
MSRP: $27,100 (Fed $22,600; CA $21,100)
Fuel Economy: 54 MPG/133 MPGe
0-60: 11.3 seconds
Cargo Space: 19.8 (seat down unconfirmed ~40-45) cu/ft
Curb weight: 3,365 lbs
1/4 mile time: TBD
Special Note: Only four seats
 

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Exactly, the battery does add about 10k to the car, but the Bolt actually has a much better value than other EV hatches, faster, bigger, larger range. The Bolt EV more closely matches a $25k ICE, but exceeds it in ways too. Could add the BMW i3, Nissan Leaf, Focus electric, every other small electric hatch as well. Should add 1/4 mile times as well.
 

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I thought the VW GTI had a 0-60 time of 6.5 seconds. Is that wrong?
 

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I'm not a big fan of comparing 0-60 mph times between EVs and ICEVs, especially using a 1' rollout as MotorTrend does. It's not a good comparison. See this for the rationale: The Rolling Start, A Better EV Performance Metric

Here are the Rolling Start, 5-60mph times for these cars from Car&Driver:

2016 Ford Focus RS, manual: 5.7 sec
2016 VW Golf R, manual: 6.1 sec
2013 Ford Focus ST, manual: 6.3 sec
2015 VW Golf GTI, manual: 6.3 sec
2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV: 6.6 sec
2014 Mini Cooper S Hardtop, auto: 6.6 sec
2014 Mini Cooper S Hardtop, manual: 7.2 sec
2014 Mazda 3 2.5L hatch, auto: 7.6 sec
2017 Mazda 3 2.5L hatch, manual: 8.1 sec
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Exactly, the battery does add about 10k to the car, but the Bolt actually has a much better value than other EV hatches, faster, bigger, larger range. The Bolt EV more closely matches a $25k ICE, but exceeds it in ways too. Could add the BMW i3, Nissan Leaf, Focus electric, every other small electric hatch as well. Should add 1/4 mile times as well.
The 1/4 mile time would be a good addition. I wanted to avoid adding the other EVs initially because cross-shopping seems to be everyone's focus, but some of them could make the list.

I thought the VW GTI had a 0-60 time of 6.5 seconds. Is that wrong?
According to Car and Driver, it's 5.8 seconds. Maybe it was increased from previous years?

http://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/golf-gti
 

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Subaru crosstrek, adds AWD which the others listed don't have, but lethargic on the 0-60 front.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm not a big fan of comparing 0-60 mph times between EVs and ICEVs, especially using a 1' rollout as MotorTrend does. It's not a good comparison. See this for the rationale: The Rolling Start, A Better EV Performance Metric

Here are the Rolling Start, 5-60mph times for these cars from Car&Driver:

2016 Ford Focus RS, manual: 5.7 sec
2016 VW Golf R, manual: 6.1 sec
2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV: 6.6 sec
2014 Mini Cooper S Hardtop, auto: 6.6 sec
2015 VW Golf GTI, manual: 6.7 sec
2015 Ford Focus ST, manual: 7.1 sec
2014 Mini Cooper S Hardtop, manual: 7.2 sec
2014 Mazda 3 2.5L hatch, auto: 7.6 sec
2017 Mazda 3 2.5L hatch, manual: 8.1 sec
As long as it's consistent, I don't mind. Personally, I think the rolling start is just Car and Driver's fishing for reasons to take jabs at Motor Trend. MT was one of the first places to accurately test the Subaru WRX because they new how to use a turbocharged car, and they made the likes of CD look bad. If you drive a performance ICEV, you should know how to launch it properly, which requires manipulating the turbo spool and engine RPMs.

The rolling start reminds me of the Honda Civic drivers who told me they could out accelerate my EVO if we were both rolling at exactly 22 mph but we both had to be in 2nd gear. :rolleyes:

The good thing with EVs is that even in standard trim, you don't have to "game" their acceleration to match "sporty" ICEVs.
 

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As gas cars get faster, their MPG drops. You will NEVER find a gas car that can give the same or better performance than the Chevy Bolt EV and equal MPG ratings for any price below $40,000. The Tesla Motors Model 3 doesn't exists so it cannot be included in that list. And you always get what you pay for!
 

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The Audi A3 E-tron would be a nice addition to this list. 83 mpge, 6.5 seconds to 60, a hatch/sportback, and base price that is $3k over the Bolt's (actually more like $6k since it doesn't get the full $7500 rebate). Still, I found it drove better and was overall more solid feeling and nicer inside than the gen 2 Volt. Basically, you have to decide if you can live with 16 miles of EV range. BMW i3 rex is, of course, another obvious addition in the hot hatch category.
 

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The Prius Prime will be the Bolt's only real competitor for the time being...But it's really hard guys to compare MSRP, no one pays MSRP and it's even reported that more than half LEASE EVs/PHEVs therefore MSRP is really pointless since it lease offering change month to month...

Another wild car is insurance; my LT Volt ($36K MSRP) was more expensive to insure than a $46K Acura...There's two reasons for that, first it's widely reported that EVs are just more expensive than ICEs with the same MSRP...Next many have reported having auto-emergency-braking gives you an insurance discount...To get that in the Bolt you're paying an extra $5K; auto-braking is standard in the Prius Prime and along with it's cheaper MSRP the Prime could be much cheaper to insure vs the Bolt...

Subaru crosstrek, adds AWD which the others listed don't have, but lethargic on the 0-60 front.
You don't even need the Crosstrek model, the 5 door Impreza has AWD, is cheaper and gets better MPG...
 

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The Audi A3 E-tron would be a nice addition to this list. 83 mpge, 6.5 seconds to 60, a hatch/sportback, and base price that is $3k over the Bolt's (actually more like $6k since it doesn't get the full $7500 rebate). Still, I found it drove better and was overall more solid feeling and nicer inside than the gen 2 Volt. Basically, you have to decide if you can live with 16 miles of EV range. BMW i3 rex is, of course, another obvious addition in the hot hatch category.
One downside is it requires premium fuel...
 

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The Tesla Motors Model 3 doesn't exists so it cannot be included in that list.
This is a list of Bolt EV hatchback/wagon competitors. The Model 3 is a sedan. That's why it's not on the list, Raymondjram.
 

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You don't even need the Crosstrek model, the 5 door Impreza has AWD, is cheaper and gets better MPG...
Do they still make the Crosstrek hybrid? Although it didn't add much to the MPG, it certainly upped the performance. I think it's a shame Subaru didn't try putting a WRXti motor in a Crosstrek. We know it will fit, just do it!!! But I'm guessing you need the low center of gravity to avoid tipping the vehicle over.
 

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EV vs ICE in stoplight performance is always misleading.

If you have an ICE, how often do you hold at 6500 rpm while waiting for the light to change, or powerbrake your automatic as hard as you can with your TC/SC turned off?

With the EV, you simply push the go pedal. Turn off nothing, no reving like a fool in front of everybody. It's what makes them more fun to drive in the city.
 

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Do they still make the Crosstrek hybrid? Although it didn't add much to the MPG, it certainly upped the performance. I think it's a shame Subaru didn't try putting a WRXti motor in a Crosstrek. We know it will fit, just do it!!! But I'm guessing you need the low center of gravity to avoid tipping the vehicle over.
Hybrid was axed...For MY17 the trek gets up to 26/33; MY16 hybrid got 30/34 which was most likely why it was dropped...MY17 Impreza 5 door is 28/37...I agree with you that it would be great if both they made a more powerful Impreza 5 door...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I'll start updating the list with some of the other hatchback competitors.

The Prius Prime will be the Bolt's only real competitor for the time being...But it's really hard guys to compare MSRP, no one pays MSRP and it's even reported that more than half LEASE EVs/PHEVs therefore MSRP is really pointless since it lease offering change month to month...
I didn't want to get too far into the weeds with specifics, so MSRP is about as good of a starting point as you will find. The only reason I added the CA rebate to the Bolt is because that is where most are initially being shipped. Otherwise, I wanted to stick with universally available discounts. Heck, a lower-income person living in the San Joaquin Valley region of California can get a Bolt for an adjusted MSRP of about $23,000.

Another wild car is insurance; my LT Volt ($36K MSRP) was more expensive to insure than a $46K Acura...There's two reasons for that, first it's widely reported that EVs are just more expensive than ICEs with the same MSRP...Next many have reported having auto-emergency-braking gives you an insurance discount...To get that in the Bolt you're paying an extra $5K; auto-braking is standard in the Prius Prime and along with it's cheaper MSRP the Prime could be much cheaper to insure vs the Bolt...
I also wanted to avoid the topic of cost of ownership for right now because that is so uniquely individual. Do you have your own solar panels? Do you live in a state with $3 per gallon gasoline or a state with $1.50 per gallon gasoline? Are you in a city center with higher insurance rates? The list goes on and on, and it is ultimately up to the individual buyer to calculate.

EV vs ICE in stoplight performance is always misleading.

If you have an ICE, how often do you hold at 6500 rpm while waiting for the light to change, or powerbrake your automatic as hard as you can with your TC/SC turned off?

With the EV, you simply push the go pedal. Turn off nothing, no reving like a fool in front of everybody. It's what makes them more fun to drive in the city.
The question is not how often but rather whether you are interested in accelerating hard. You should know before the light actually turns whether that is what you plan to do, and in those cases, yes, plenty of ICEV owners rev their engines before the light turns. The fact that an EV doesn't need to is a bonus, but that shouldn't take away the option.

Basically, the rolling start takes away an EV and FWD NA ICEV weakness (the initial torque steer governing and control) and takes away an ICEV strength (initiating the acceleration at a better point in the power curve). It's an intentional bias designed to favor EVs and FWD naturally aspirated ICEVs over forced induction ICEVs, and I feel that it is pointless. It's more difficult to find numbers for, fewer places test it, and it's not necessarily and more indicative of real world acceleration. I feel a better argument could be made for 30-60 or 40-70 mph times.
 

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The rolling start reminds me of the Honda Civic drivers who told me they could out accelerate my EVO if we were both rolling at exactly 22 mph but we both had to be in 2nd gear. :rolleyes:
:D:D:D Best dissing of the "rolling start" method of performance testing that I've seen! Attaboy!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Added some competitors and the 1/4 mile data that I could find. Something I think is interesting to note: Two of the requested additions come in at well over $30,000 MSRP even after adjustments. At some point, a line should be drawn because would could start adding the likes of the Model X and Macan.

:D:D:D Best dissing of the "rolling start" method of performance testing that I've seen! Attaboy!
Hah. I was literally told that by someone once.
 
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