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Discussion Starter #1
Saw this ad on BMW i3 TV commercial. Unlike GM's Volt "marketing" person, BMW thinks potential buyers DO watch TV, the car CAN be explained, and they are running TV commercials here in Illinois. Sadly, the only Volt TV ad I have seen is not even from GM, its an insurance commercial. :(

So BMW is actively selling their car, GM, not so much.

 

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Been playing same commercial here in new york city. They occasionally play a Volt commercial here now and then
 

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Besides having (to me) an unattractive bodystyle, I firmly believe the i3's powertrain technology is better than Volt and it shows up in the vehicle gross weight of appx 2,700 lbs. Instead of lugging a full size ICE, the i3 utilizes an optional 650cc(?) motorcycle engine that will extend the driving range by an extra 70 miles using gasoline. I will seriously consider the i3 as it will fit nearly every consumer in the US and not so dependant on climate as the Volt when trying very hard to stay within your EV range without dipping into gas.

Appx. 100 mile EV range and 70 mile gasoline range extender. What's not to like? However, I'm a little surprised BMW did not offer 5 person seating, not sure I understand that move.
 

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Besides having (to me) an unattractive bodystyle, I firmly believe the i3's powertrain technology is better than Volt and it shows up in the vehicle gross weight of appx 2,700 lbs. Instead of lugging a full size ICE, the i3 utilizes an optional 650cc(?) motorcycle engine that will extend the driving range by an extra 70 miles using gasoline. I will seriously consider the i3 as it will fit nearly every consumer in the US and not so dependant on climate as the Volt when trying very hard to stay within your EV range without dipping into gas.

Appx. 100 mile EV range and 70 mile gasoline range extender. What's not to like? However, I'm a little surprised BMW did not offer 5 person seating, not sure I understand that move.
The weight isn't just due to not having a full size ICE, the entire car is made of carbon fiber. The ICE in the Volt probably only weighs a couple hundred pounds, but the entire body undoubtedly weighs far more than that.
You may prefer the i3's power train style, but there are plenty out there that would disagree that it is better, me being one of them. I rarely exceed the EV range of the Volt, but when I do, it's to go several hundred miles. When I do that, I don't want to have to stop every 50 miles to fill up. And the Volt's engine gives you the power to run uphill at freeway speeds for extended periods of time, and the engine is fairly quiet. With the i3, that engine is going to be screaming to keep up with 75mph driving all day.
 

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The weight isn't just due to not having a full size ICE, the entire car is made of carbon.......,.
I agree, it's actually a pliable plastic a carbon fiber hybrid if you will. Great for not only weight savings as you mentioned but also good in keeping the price down low. $40-$45K is decent when you compare the extended ev range and BMW quality for a little more than Volt.

The i3 is a serious player in the ev market. It may hurt GM'S business model of Volt being an ICE car that comes standard with a 40 electric mile battery. The goal is to increase EV usage and decrease ICE usage. Not everyone commutes 40 mile round trip then having to negotiate range in winter. These are realistic facts. GM is losing interest in EV's or not taking them seriously enough.
 

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"Instead of lugging a full size ICE, the i3 utilizes an optional 650cc(?) motorcycle engine that will extend the driving range by an extra 70 miles using gasoline. I will seriously consider the i3 as it will fit nearly every consumer in the US and not so dependant on climate as the Volt when trying very hard to stay within your EV range without dipping into gas. "

I wouldn't dare call this a superior drive train. The range extender is a joke compared to the Volt, and based on early reports, you aren't going to be super happy to be driving on it. I will take a right sized electric battery and a gas engine that will work like a normal car over a car that has 2x the capacity I need on a daily basis, and an engine that will under perform when it is running.
 

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"Instead of lugging a full size ICE, the i3 utilizes an optional 650cc(?) motorcycle engine that will extend the driving range by an extra 70 miles using gasoline. I will seriously consider the i3 as it will fit nearly every consumer in the US and not so dependant on climate as the Volt when trying very hard to stay within your EV range without dipping into gas. "

I wouldn't dare call this a superior drive train. The range extender is a joke compared to the Volt, and based on early reports, you aren't going to be super happy to be driving on it. I will take a right sized electric battery and a gas engine that will work like a normal car over a car that has 2x the capacity I need on a daily basis, and an engine that will under perform when it is running.
I don't want a right size ICE, I want a right size battery that fits my needs. Not often do people drive beyond 200 miles daily. Sure, I'll live with being inconvenienced once or twice a year by pumping more fuel more often on a road trip if I had greater EV range. ICE should be a crutch. My belief is to tone down ICE and ramp up Battery. As with any addiction, you ween off the bad stuff and increase the good stuff. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I like the BMW i3 concept, but they botched the execution in my opinion. You can't toggle the ICE on/off as you can with the newer Volts, the 2 gal gasoline tank limits the ICE to being a tow-truck alternative only, and it's underpowered as others point out.

If this was Goldilocks and the Three Bears, the BMW bed is too "small", the Tesla Model S "too big", and the Volt is "just right". YMMV

I just wish GM's Volt marketing team would actually embrace the car instead of pretending it did not exist. It's one of GM's best kept secrets.
 

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Look at all the whiners (I'm included) that posts on this board about how much it bugs them to carry around 8 gallons of fuel during the Summer to simply go thru a maintenance burn. When the winter months arrive watch us complain about how it's just not enough electric range especially in the northern most states. C'mon!! i3 with a 2 gallon fuel capacity is "right sizing" the entire situation but you also get 100 mile EV range. This is great stuff. BMW solves pet-peaves us Volt owners balk at everyday on this forum. And have I convinced anyone with this information, NO!! LOL :)
 

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I just wish GM's Volt marketing team would actually embrace the car instead of pretending it did not exist. It's one of GM's best kept secrets.
Agreed!
It's an absolute shame the way GM (fails to) promote the Volt.:(
I came from a Gen III Prius and then a PIP and to me the Volt is a superior vehicle, especially the engineering behind it's battery protection system.
 

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Look at all the whiners (I'm included) that posts on this board about how much it bugs them to carry around 8 gallons of fuel during the Summer to simply go thru a maintenance burn. When the winter months arrive watch us complain about how it's just not enough electric range especially in the northern most states. C'mon!! i3 with a 2 gallon fuel capacity is "right sizing" the entire situation but you also get 100 mile EV range. This is great stuff. BMW solves pet-peaves us Volt owners balk at everyday on this forum. And have I convinced anyone with this information, NO!! LOL :)
If you think about it, there aren't that many whiners compared to how many cars that have been sold. GM designed the 40 mile range to cover 75% of daily driving. If you increase the battery size, then 75% of people are lugging around extra batteries (not to mention paying for the extra batteries). The only time many people would use the whole battery would be on a road trip, and then you would be using the gas as well.
Increasing the battery size has a decreasing return once you get above 40 miles. 50 miles may satisfy another 5%, but 75 miles may only satisfy another 5% on top of that. 100 mile EV range still isn't enough to satisfy everyone, so why spend all the extra money to make a few people happy?
 

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Different strokes for different folks.

Styling aside, I like BMW's approach better than the Volt for my purposes. It is only sad that the I3 Rex has been crippled so much in BMW's attempt to get the white sticker in California, only to end up not getting it after all. As such, I seriously hope they will redesign the I3 as soon as possible to have a larger gas tank and a hold mode or mountain mode. That would go a long way towards making the Rex more usable for regional travel.

The Volt already handles 98% of my drving needs in EV mode. With 80 miles AER it would handle 99.9% of my driving in EV mode and I could tolerate the smaller REX for those 0.01% of the time I needed to go further.

As for the styling.. I like the exterior style, but I'm not thrilled with the interior at all. In fact, I'm quite turned off by it. I especially hate the drive selector (gear shift, whatever) being on the steering column like that. I also don't like the way the two screens just look like iPads stuck to the dash like some sort of afterthought or aftermarket add-on.
 

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As someone who has one of the highest electric miles on my volt (43,000), I had come to appreciate the gas motor and it would NOT suit me to be range extending in the BMW in any significant way. I have been renovating one of my houses (111 years old) that is 1.5 hours away. While it is annoying that I have to burn gas, I know that the 200 miles I travel in a day (there is back) is going to be done without fuss, at highway speeds, and without having to stop along the way to fill up.

Life changes, and buying a car that won't adapt to those changes (a car with a fixed electric range, then very tiny gas extender) just doesn't do it for me.
 

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GM may not be running may commercials here in IL, Chicago market but from what I have seen since last Thursday the cars are selling.

Last Thursday, 4/24, I saw 2 in the Oak Brook area, Friday 4/25 2 in Addison area, Sunday while sitting in a restaurant at 83 and St Charles, looking out the window I saw no less than 7 pass by plus 1 in the parking lot of the adjoining restaurant and while on my way home was followed by another. last night on I88 near Downers grove was passed by yet another.

14 in the last week.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
GM may not be running may commercials here in IL, Chicago market but from what I have seen since last Thursday the cars are selling.
Yup, me too. There IS a market here (and many other places) and the GM "marketing" team are ignoring it.
 

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Yup, me too. There IS a market here (and many other places) and the GM "marketing" team are ignoring it.
Which leads me to believe GM is backing off the EV scene. Especially after hearing the Spark EV may be taking a back seat to national sales. Would love to see what Tesla has up their sleeves in the next few years.
 

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If you're going to have a ICE sized only for limp home mode why bother? Might as well be large enough to eliminate the road trip issues. Undersized backup means the battery has to be that much bigger to not end up in limp home mode often with the performance limitations it means.
 

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If you're going to have a ICE sized only for limp home mode why bother? Might as well be large enough to eliminate the road trip issues. Undersized backup means the battery has to be that much bigger to not end up in limp home mode often with the performance limitations it means.
70+ miles a "limp home" mode? Unless your driving in a non-civilized desert then yes, maybe it could be a limp home mode. Normally gas stations are just miles of each other. Unlike a BEV where you absolutely need to find a charging station and find that the next one is hundreds of miles away. Now that would be "limping home", or somewhere on the side of the road. 100 ev miles PLUS 70 gasoline miles is pretty darn good. At this point in time I would take a 100 mile ev / 70 mile gasoline vehicle over a 200 mile total BEV any day.
 

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If you think about it, there aren't that many whiners compared to how many cars that have been sold. GM designed the 40 mile range to cover 75% of daily driving. If you increase the battery size, then 75% of people are lugging around extra batteries (not to mention paying for the extra batteries). The only time many people would use the whole battery would be on a road trip, and then you would be using the gas as well.
Increasing the battery size has a decreasing return once you get above 40 miles. 50 miles may satisfy another 5%, but 75 miles may only satisfy another 5% on top of that. 100 mile EV range still isn't enough to satisfy everyone, so why spend all the extra money to make a few people happy?

I think in reality this isn't true at all. I think it's the opposite that most people don't think 40 miles EV range is enough which is a big reason why a lot of people don't buy the Volt. Everyone I have told my car about says the same thing, they say something like this: "that's all you get is 40 miles on the battery?!?" Plus all I hear is people on here hoping and wanting the Volt 2.0 to have more electric range. 40 miles really isn't that much especially for people in cold climates that have to use heat 9 months out of the year. I'm lucky to get 25 miles per charge in the winter here in Minnesota. When you factor in freeway driving, which really reduces range you're not getting 40 miles anymore, more like 33 or 35 miles. With 100 miles range you have a bigger buffer in the winter and with freeway driving which makes for better real world electric driving range. You must live in a warm climate, never use heat and must not drive 70mph on the freeway that much, how many real world drivers out there fit this?
 
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