GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,289 Posts
Discussion Starter #1

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
I think everyone forgets that manufacturing an automobile, in volume, is not easy. Making a $140K car is one thing but trying to compete at the $35K (actually $50K) puts you in the same ring as all the big boys who have been doing this for a while. Tesla doesn't have the bandwidth to deal with the increased volumes required. And then if and when they get any quantities on the road, how are they going to service and repair them. Tesla is missing their window. With all the delays, they will be trying to sell opposite BMW, MB and all other high end manufacturers.

Tesla needs to make money on other things, solar, trucks etc. I don't think they can do it trying to make a cheaper car. Stick with the high-end stuff, that's the only window I see for them. A new roadster that takes on Ferrari or other exotics makes more sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
If I were the CEO of Tesla Motors:
  • I would have put the battery factory as the highest priority. You can make money selling batteries.
  • Supercharging would have never been free, but the "The money you pay for charging will be cheaper than gas, and allows us to expand the coverage area!"
  • There would be a station version of the MS and no MX variant yet. Saves a lot of development and gets the same thing done.
  • The Roadster II would be close to release. It would be a like a Vette body on a MS chassis, 2 door, 2+2 seating. Again, not a lot of development. A glass body on an existing MS roller.
  • The Model 3 would still be in testing.
  • I'd be selling batteries at a profit that were not used internally.
  • I'd be selling both Model S and Model S wagons at a profit, and making black ink corporate wide.
  • I'd have stuck with the AP1 system while working on a FSD system.
  • The stock probably would at over $1000 a share now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,672 Posts
And me and my 2017 Cheby Volt just keep on truckin to the tune of over 97% all electric and almost paid for..... yippee when I get the title early 2018.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,782 Posts
I would not have made a battery factory. Batteries are commodities. Buy from the lowest bidder, QC, resell, rinse and repeat.

I also would not have made a car factory. Partner with Jag or MB or VW and have them manufacture your design. Rinse and repeat.

Competing with Chinese solar is also stupid.

But hey, I’m not the billionaire here.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,190 Posts
On a program discussing all the Model 3 issues and delays, an analyst (who drives a Tesla) said Tesla is trying to do what no one else has done before, build a $35k EV for the masses.

Oh. My. Gosh. Hello. Mr Analyst? I'm driving a $35k EV for the masses, the Bolt EV. Been on the market for almost a year. GM produced them without drama, without delays, without production hell. I should have looked to see if he had purple lips from the kool-aide. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,410 Posts
If I were the CEO of Tesla Motors:
  • I would have put the battery factory as the highest priority. You can make money selling batteries.
  • Supercharging would have never been free, but the "The money you pay for charging will be cheaper than gas, and allows us to expand the coverage area!"
  • There would be a station version of the MS and no MX variant yet. Saves a lot of development and gets the same thing done.
  • The Roadster II would be close to release. It would be a like a Vette body on a MS chassis, 2 door, 2+2 seating. Again, not a lot of development. A glass body on an existing MS roller.
  • The Model 3 would still be in testing.
  • I'd be selling batteries at a profit that were not used internally.
  • I'd be selling both Model S and Model S wagons at a profit, and making black ink corporate wide.
  • I'd have stuck with the AP1 system while working on a FSD system.
  • The stock probably would at over $1000 a share now.
You may remember that Tesla stock took a huge jump forward - basically doubling - from just over $140 to close to $280, during the first half of 2016. The main reason for that was the Model 3 concept launch, which took place on March 31, 2016.

So if you were the CEO...you'd be in money raising hell right now...because you didn't have a product to drumbeat to the investors...:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,089 Posts
I would not have made a battery factory. Batteries are commodities. Buy from the lowest bidder, QC, resell, rinse and repeat.

I also would not have made a car factory. Partner with Jag or MB or VW and have them manufacture your design. Rinse and repeat.

Competing with Chinese solar is also stupid.

But hey, I’m not the billionaire here.
I'm with you here, except that I would partner with a real auto manufacturer to provide the power train for one of their designs.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,190 Posts
I'm with you here, except that I would partner with a real auto manufacturer to provide the power train for one of their designs.
Loboc just described GM's approach with the Bolt EV. Result, first to market (including a year of mule testing), no drama, no production hell. And GM knows how to ramp up production as needed. What they lack is good marketing, and a drive to compete against ICE's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
If I ran GM, I'd be trying to either buy out Tesla for their technology or at least partner with them. Think of the car that GM could make with their manufacturing infrastructure and know-how combined with Tesla's tech genius! I know this isn't likely in the real world but it would certainly make American car manufacturing great again!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,784 Posts
If I ran GM, I'd be trying to either buy out Tesla for their technology or at least partner with them. Think of the car that GM could make with their manufacturing infrastructure and know-how combined with Tesla's tech genius!....
What tech are you talking about?
Making a battery pack from 7000 individual cylindrical Li-ion cells, (which is part of the claimed 'Bottleneck'), instead of modern larger cells?
Or a camera based 'Auto Pilot' system that misses 'sky colored semi-trucks'?
GM has autonomous Bolts being road tested right now, and they have more than optical cameras.

Do you have an example of T-tech that is unique?
Or are you thinking of the hype?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,081 Posts
If I ran GM, I'd be trying to either buy out Tesla for their technology or at least partner with them. Think of the car that GM could make with their manufacturing infrastructure and know-how combined with Tesla's tech genius! I know this isn't likely in the real world but it would certainly make American car manufacturing great again!
I would disagree with you on that. I don't see any engineering/tech from Tesla that GM would need. GM simply has to decide to take its business in that direction.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,410 Posts
If I ran GM, I'd be trying to either buy out Tesla for their technology or at least partner with them. Think of the car that GM could make with their manufacturing infrastructure and know-how combined with Tesla's tech genius! I know this isn't likely in the real world but it would certainly make American car manufacturing great again!
wow...this might get me to SHORT GM stock...:(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
What tech are you talking about?
Making a battery pack from 7000 individual cylindrical Li-ion cells, (which is part of the claimed 'Bottleneck'), instead of modern larger cells?
Or a camera based 'Auto Pilot' system that misses 'sky colored semi-trucks'?
GM has autonomous Bolts being road tested right now, and they have more than optical cameras.

Do you have an example of T-tech that is unique?
Or are you thinking of the hype?
I'm referring to the elegant user interface that Teslas have in their beautiful large screen. I drove a model S the other day and realized that they're a tech company rather than a car company so their cars are mostly based on their OTA upgradable software running things which is undeniably the best tech in the automotive world....their car building ability, not so much though as they're starting from scratch whereas all the other manufacturers have many years of experience building cars and also have the infrastructure to do so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
I would disagree with you on that. I don't see any engineering/tech from Tesla that GM would need. GM simply has to decide to take its business in that direction.

Just drive a model S or X and look at the elegant user interface on their large hi-def screens and you'll see what I mean by Tesla's superior tech...blows away any little GM screen with their weak factory nav etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Hey....and I'm not a Tesla fanboy here....in fact after driving a couple of Teslas, I appreciate my Volt even more because it doe's almost all the things (and a few more) that a Tesla can do at ⅓ of the price!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,289 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Just drive a model S or X and look at the elegant user interface on their large hi-def screens and you'll see what I mean by Tesla's superior tech...blows away any little GM screen with their weak factory nav etc.
Like GM or Ford or any other big boy manufacturer couldn't put in a just-as-good display in a vehicle if they wanted to. Tesla's display is nothing special. LG makes better ones in their tablets.

Tesla really doesn't have any special IP. That's why Elon opened up all their patents. The biggest thing going for Tesla is the "Tesla" brand name and the Supercharger network. Even the SC network isn't anything special, but it exists and is out there, so it has value.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,011 Posts
If I ran GM, I'd be trying to either buy out Tesla for their technology or at least partner with them. Think of the car that GM could make with their manufacturing infrastructure and know-how combined with Tesla's tech genius! I know this isn't likely in the real world but it would certainly make American car manufacturing great again!
Is it tech genius? The autopilot stuff sounds nifty, but GM's working on that as well, has already gotten basically as far, just hasn't been using its customers as guinea pigs. The rest of the stuff Tesla is doing isn't exactly genius -- it was the willingness to shove 60kwh of battery into a car and then worry about finding people to buy it. In essence, we can give 'em props for proving that There Is A Market that the Big 3 didn't think existed. But that's chutzpah, not genius.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,011 Posts
I'm referring to the elegant user interface that Teslas have in their beautiful large screen. I drove a model S the other day and realized that they're a tech company rather than a car company so their cars are mostly based on their OTA upgradable software running things which is undeniably the best tech in the automotive world....their car building ability, not so much though as they're starting from scratch whereas all the other manufacturers have many years of experience building cars and also have the infrastructure to do so.
You and I are very different. I don't want acres of screen to look around for things on. I want controls I can reach by feel, with different shaped knobs for different things, that click audibly and tactilely when I change a setting. I want simple, obvious, unambiguous displays. I want the operation of the car to be as far out of my way as possible so I can pay attention to only driving, and I don't want to go look at a screen to change a temperature or a volume or turn on the wipers.

And, honestly, OTA updates just seem to give people license and permission to ship something bug-filled and crappy in the first place. If you can't update easily, it's got to be right in the first place. And that's a MUCH BETTER place to be writing/designing things for life-threatening machinery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
OTA when used right is a great idea.
But I agree, using it to sell cars that lack advertised features with no guarantee when and if the feature will be downloaded is not ethical.

Apparently the Model 3's that are shipping have no radio? That's not acceptable.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top