Warranty expired. Lesson: don't buy complex cars and especially an orphaned model with an expired warranty. Same idea with the "never own German car with an expired warranty". Maintenance and repairs will eat you alive, eventually.
Bearing failure FAQ
Compiled from various GM-Volt threads. The questions below are answered in a numbered section lower on the post.
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?66482-Bearing-Failure-vs-Driving-in-L
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?89658-Another-Motor-Bearing-Failure
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?85658-Stator-Bearing-Failure
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?56705-GM-fix-my-Lemon-take-2...
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?46489-Fix-my-Volt-Please-Take-1.
- I have started to notice a sound progressively getting louder when I brake and Accelerate but mostly very loud when I am stopping. It sounds like a table saw winding down. This is something that never happened before. What is causing this?
- What kind of damage can I cause by driving the car with this issue?
- Do I need to have the car towed to the dealer?
- Is there a service bulletin I can refer my Chevy dealer to? Yes, PIP5081H
- What tools are needed by the dealer for the repair?
- How difficult is the bearing repair?
- Does the repair require removing the transmission?
- Does the rotor need to be replaced in addition to the bearing cage?
- Does the entire MG-B rotor/stator assembly need replacing?
- Once repaired, can the bearing fail again?
- What if the bearing noise problem persists or returns after repair?
- What causes the bearing to fail?
- Is failure of the bearing related to driving in Low? Number of miles? The car year?
- Is failure of the bearing common?
- If this bearing failure happens outside the warranty, will it be expensive?
- How is the whining or table saw noise being created?
- Why is the whining sound louder during regenerative braking?
- Based on the noise, I believe the damage is much greater than this FAQ seems to imply.
- Why was repairing this bearing failure such a big deal initially?
- Is this a warranty repair? What about the extended warranty?
- I have started to notice a sound progressively getting louder when I brake and Accelerate but mostly very loud when I am stopping. It sounds like a table saw winding down. This is something that never happened before. What is causing this?
This sound could indicate a bearing race failure. Symptoms? It sounds terrible – like a saw blade slowing down. A slight ticking sound in reverse, more sound in Drive and even louder in L – the pitch increases with speed, but gets louder at lower speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ulyuyBVE8
- What kind of damage can I cause by driving the car with this issue?
If it is a bearing cage failure, it sounds a lot worse than it is. It DOES NOT come into contact with the stator nor does it grind up the core into pieces, nor does it damage the stator. Take it to the dealer. It shouldn't really be a problem driving it another 18 miles (30km) but you can contact OnStar and have it towed to be safe and minimize any collateral contamination (just plastic debris for the most part). - Do I need to have the car towed to the dealer?
It shouldn't really be a problem driving it another 18 miles (30km) but you can contact OnStar and have it towed to be safe and minimize any collateral contamination (just plastic debris for the most part). There is no serious damage as long as it's dealt with expeditiously. But since the appearance noise is so sudden and obnoxious to your average Volt owner, that really isn’t a problem. - Is there a service bulletin I can refer my Chevy dealer to?
Yes, have them look up and read the PIP5081H and the replacement procedure in GM's Electronic Service Information system BEFOREHAND. Also make sure they have the proper tools at hand. - What tools are needed by the dealer for the repair?
These ARE NOT Volt specific tools!
DT-47865 - Bearing Remover and J-45124 - Removal Bridge
http://gm-volt.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40186&d=1385435849
DT-22928-B Bearing & Seal Installer
http://gm-volt.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40178&d=1385435848
- How difficult is the bearing repair?
It's really no different that repairing a conventional automatic transmission (which is FAR more complicated that the internals of the Volt's drive/propulsion unit by the way) in that many can be repaired without completely overhauling the entire unit. This is really no different. BUT it requires the right tools and a trained tech willing and able to follow the published processes for the repair. - Does the repair require removing the transmission?
The repair is typically done in-car through the LH fender well while the car was up on the lift - all open from underneath (the fender itself isn't removed). - Does the rotor need to be replaced in addition to the bearing cage?
Rarely. Early on, the rotor was been replaced in a handful of Volts either due to the unavailability of the bearing itself (originally this bearing was not to be a serviceable part i.e. part of the rotor), or unavailability of the special tools needed to properly remove and reinstall it. A bulletin now clearly identifies how to replace the bearing and the correct tools to use. The rotor was also replaced on a couple of cars that had a repeat failure after the bearing alone had been replaced at the dealership. - Does the entire MG-B rotor/stator assembly need replacing?
Replacing the MG-B rotor/stator assembly really isn’t necessary for the repair to be successful. Instead, it's more an alternative method to obtain a pre-installed bearing in the event ordering the individual part, or the tools necessary to service it cannot be obtained in a timely manner.So the dealer would be well advised to insure they have the tools and parts on-hand BEFORE tearing the drive unit apart. They should look up and read the PIP5081 and the replacement procedure in GM's Electronic Service Information system BEFOREHAND. - Once repaired, can the bearing fail again?
Possibly, though this is not a chronic issue. Essentially ALL of the repeat failures have been attributed to the repair procedures NOT being followed by the technician. If the Chevy service tech failed to look up or read the PIP5081 and the replacement procedure in GM's Electronic Service Information system BEFOREHAND this could certainly cause a substandard repair and subsequent repeat of the problem. So, there's not much chance of a repeat failure, providing the bearing was properly replaced, as in the technician carefully followed the published process for it's removal and installation. If for whatever reason they do not (e.g. didn’t have the correct tools, or didn’t use them correctly, didn’t follow the detailed instructions for R&R or measuring the bearing race for proper alignment after it's installed, and a couple of additional inspections necessary to insure it's fixed right the first time. etc. etc.) then the repair might NOT be a success, especially if the noise does not alleviate (or returns after a short period of time). - What if the bearing noise problem persists or returns after repair?
Get your Volt Advisor involved. There's not much chance of a repeat failure, providing the bearing was properly replaced, as in the technician carefully followed the published process for it's removal and installation. If for whatever reason they do not (e.g. didn’t have the correct tools, or didn’t use them correctly, didn’t follow the detailed instructions for R&R or measuring the bearing race for proper alignment after it's installed etc. etc.) then the repair might NOT be a success, especially if the noise does not alleviate (or returns after a short period of time). If the dealer tech had some sort of trouble replacing the bearing they MAY need to replace the complete rotor (comes with the bearing) or even the drive unit assembly in order to remedy the issue. - What causes the bearing to fail?
Damage to the bearing race during final assembly of the drive unit. - Is failure of the bearing related to driving in Low? Number of miles? The car year?
No. There is no correlation with driving in Low, or in Drive for that matter. Very few of these have actually occurred and the issue has been identified as potential damage to the bearing race during final assembly of the drive unit. - Is failure of the bearing common?
No, but it is concerning for those who experience it. - If this bearing failure happens outside the warranty, will it be expensive?
It's not a difficult or even an expensive repair. The drive unit does not need to be removed. Assuming everything (tools, parts, repair bulletin) is "at hand" it shouldn't take longer than 3-4 hours. Not much more than an old-school tune-up... - How is the whining or table saw noise being created?
The noise is created by the fact that after the plastic roller cage fails some or all of the bearing rollers are no longer properly/equally spaced around the circumference of the rotor support in the end cover. The rollers are all still there, as they are "captured" within the bearing races but will "gather" together and spin inside the races at what is now an un-natural frequency. This is what creates the “whining” or “table saw” sound. This bearing (as with all ball/roller/needle bearings) is designed for metal to metal contact, within the confines of its races providing there is adequate lubrication (the bearing is pressure fed transmission fluid from an internal passage) so there isn't really any serious metal contamination present OR any damage where on the 2 parts in which the bearing is working in conjunction with- just a noise and a bunch of plastic material scattered through the end cover. - Why is the whining sound louder during regenerative braking?
The noise is more pronounced during regen because the magnetic fields created between the rotor and stator windings during regen are quite strong which creates certain thrust forces that actually move with the active poles involved, and therefore placing fluctuating loads on the bearing. So technically the noise it ALWAYS there but merely becomes more pronounced under these conditions. - Based on the noise, I believe the damage is much greater than this FAQ seems to imply.
There's always going to be a few skeptics when someone tells them it sounds worse than it actually is. But there is no serious damage as long as it's dealt with expeditiously. - Why was repairing this bearing failure such a big deal initially?
There weren't any spare parts or repair procedure. Someone made an educated decision at some point that this particular bearing was not something that would ever require routine replacement (other than when the rotor was replaced). They were obviously wrong in that decision. - Is this a warranty repair? What about the extended warranty?
The bearing repair is certainly covered under the 3 year/36k bumper to bumper warranty. It seems to me it would also be covered under the 5 year/100k mile power train warranty (the engine, the transmission/transaxle, and the drive train). Any Voltec componenet is covered 8 years/100k miles, but I don't think the bearing would be considered a Voltec component. A GMPP Major Guard warranty extension covers
"Virtually every mechanical, electrical and electronic component of your vehicle is covered against failure even if it results from wear and tear *. You're covered for parts and labor on:
Engine
Transmission / Transaxle
Front / Rear-wheel-drive components
Fuel delivery component
Engine cooling component
Heating and vehicle manufacturer-installed air conditioning components
Electrical, computer and audio components
Braking system components
Suspension (Front / Rear)
Steering component
High-tech components
Seals and gaskets
Safety components
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?66482-Bearing-Failure-vs-Driving-in-L
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?89658-Another-Motor-Bearing-Failure
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?85658-Stator-Bearing-Failure
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?56705-GM-fix-my-Lemon-take-2...
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?46489-Fix-my-Volt-Please-Take-1.
101 - 116 of 116 Posts
I drove with the bearing noise for a year before having it repaired before my extended warranty expired. I was under the impression that it was not unsafe to drive with the noise. I guess I don’t know if that is true or not, but I never had any issue other than the whine.
I thought this might be happening to my 2013, but after hearing a youtube video of the "buzzsaw" sound maybe it isn't since I don't seem to be hearing that. I feel like I'm hearing a noise that increases from around 20-35 mph, and then stays about the same. Hard to say if theres any other vibration or feedback that I can notice besides that. Maybe a wheel bearing?
I am in the middle of a DIY bearing replacement. The rotor has apparently moved out of place so I am unable to get the case to line up. Is there anyone out there that might have some guidance on how to get the rotor back in place?
I think I am having the same issue. Could you tell me what ended up having to be done to get it fixed?Update from me: now the dealership says the rotor moved while they removed the transmission cover, BUT this isn't their fault because "it can happen" so the cost is entirely my responsibility. It is INSANE that they expect a customer to pay for something THEY broke. They claim it's because the car is "old" and in a "rough service area" (salt on the roads).
At that point, it required a transmission rebuild to re-assemble everything in the proper place. Of course they set my car outside, transmission open to the elements, and mine needed a complete transmission replacement.I think I am having the same issue. Could you tell me what ended up having to be done to get it fixed?
If a Volt has had two bearing replacements, and is going to need a third, would that mean something else in the electric drive unit is out of tolerance? Should I be saving up for a whole unit instead of having a dealer mess around with fixing this transmission again?
My daughter has a 2014 Volt that is making the sound and the dealer has diagnosed the bearing failure. Are pre 2014 Volts any different?
Tom
Tom
You did not thoroughly read this thread as your question is answered in the content of post #1.My daughter has a 2014 Volt that is making the sound and the dealer has diagnosed the bearing failure. Are pre 2014 Volts any different?
No,
I re-re-read post #1 and still my question is not answered. My thought was that if the part was updated to have a metal cage, then the failure should not be occurring as it would be different kind of failure. But I'll take your word for it.You did not thoroughly read this thread as your question is answered in the content of post #1.
No,
Tom
Pre 2014 Volts can also have this issue as shown in the linked YT video in post #1. Those that had the issues required a new bearing, occasionally even these failed, possibly due to bad installation.My daughter has a 2014 Volt that is making the sound and the dealer has diagnosed the bearing failure. Are pre 2014 Volts any different?
Has anyone heard of a case where the stator bearing truly failed? (i.e physically damaged ball bearings or damage to the bearing rings)
Tom
Tom
Has anyone heard of a case where the stator bearing truly failed? (i.e physically damaged ball bearings or damage to the bearing rings)
Tom
I recall someone saying that if the busted up cage and lose bearings are left in there long enough, they will damage the housing as well leading to an even bigger expense. I think the sound alone drives people to get it fixed before that happens.
If the race is made of plastic and the bearings are made of steel, friction could degrade plastic until it failed. I’ve also never heard of a case of ACTUAL BEARING FAILURE (metal on metal damage) beyond the race failure. I've read 2nd hand quotes from mechanics saying "it would eventually shred the bearing race (this is the actual part that is failing) but wouldn't damage anything else."
I do wonder if flushing the transmission fluid would clear some of the plastic debris from the motor.
I do wonder if flushing the transmission fluid would clear some of the plastic debris from the motor.
The cage that holds the ball bearings is there for a reason, yes? Even if you were able to somehow flush all the broken plastic shards and pieces, then what? All the bearings will end up clumped together rather than being evenly distributed.
But is it worth spending $2,100 to fix, where they could possibly screw it up and cause another failure? Or do I just live with it? Based on my recent dealer experiences, unless that I had even an unsubstantiated example of a catastrophic bearing failure, I am more inclined to live with it in a 9 year old vehicle. I understand that there is a risk of further engine damage.
101 - 116 of 116 Posts
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