Heard back from the dealer today - they agreed with the info I sent them from the forums - it's a bearing issue and they say it is covered by the voltec(?) warranty - I'm very happy about that. Prior to this they were thinking it was a transmission issue and that it may not be covered?!? Traveling until end of next week so I'll pick it up then.
Bearing failure FAQ
Compiled from various GM-Volt threads. The questions below are answered in a numbered section lower on the post.
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?66482-Bearing-Failure-vs-Driving-in-L
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?89658-Another-Motor-Bearing-Failure
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?85658-Stator-Bearing-Failure
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?56705-GM-fix-my-Lemon-take-2...
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?46489-Fix-my-Volt-Please-Take-1.
- I have started to notice a sound progressively getting louder when I brake and Accelerate but mostly very loud when I am stopping. It sounds like a table saw winding down. This is something that never happened before. What is causing this?
- What kind of damage can I cause by driving the car with this issue?
- Do I need to have the car towed to the dealer?
- Is there a service bulletin I can refer my Chevy dealer to? Yes, PIP5081H
- What tools are needed by the dealer for the repair?
- How difficult is the bearing repair?
- Does the repair require removing the transmission?
- Does the rotor need to be replaced in addition to the bearing cage?
- Does the entire MG-B rotor/stator assembly need replacing?
- Once repaired, can the bearing fail again?
- What if the bearing noise problem persists or returns after repair?
- What causes the bearing to fail?
- Is failure of the bearing related to driving in Low? Number of miles? The car year?
- Is failure of the bearing common?
- If this bearing failure happens outside the warranty, will it be expensive?
- How is the whining or table saw noise being created?
- Why is the whining sound louder during regenerative braking?
- Based on the noise, I believe the damage is much greater than this FAQ seems to imply.
- Why was repairing this bearing failure such a big deal initially?
- Is this a warranty repair? What about the extended warranty?
- I have started to notice a sound progressively getting louder when I brake and Accelerate but mostly very loud when I am stopping. It sounds like a table saw winding down. This is something that never happened before. What is causing this?
This sound could indicate a bearing race failure. Symptoms? It sounds terrible – like a saw blade slowing down. A slight ticking sound in reverse, more sound in Drive and even louder in L – the pitch increases with speed, but gets louder at lower speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ulyuyBVE8
- What kind of damage can I cause by driving the car with this issue?
If it is a bearing cage failure, it sounds a lot worse than it is. It DOES NOT come into contact with the stator nor does it grind up the core into pieces, nor does it damage the stator. Take it to the dealer. It shouldn't really be a problem driving it another 18 miles (30km) but you can contact OnStar and have it towed to be safe and minimize any collateral contamination (just plastic debris for the most part). - Do I need to have the car towed to the dealer?
It shouldn't really be a problem driving it another 18 miles (30km) but you can contact OnStar and have it towed to be safe and minimize any collateral contamination (just plastic debris for the most part). There is no serious damage as long as it's dealt with expeditiously. But since the appearance noise is so sudden and obnoxious to your average Volt owner, that really isn’t a problem. - Is there a service bulletin I can refer my Chevy dealer to?
Yes, have them look up and read the PIP5081H and the replacement procedure in GM's Electronic Service Information system BEFOREHAND. Also make sure they have the proper tools at hand. - What tools are needed by the dealer for the repair?
These ARE NOT Volt specific tools!
DT-47865 - Bearing Remover and J-45124 - Removal Bridge
http://gm-volt.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40186&d=1385435849
DT-22928-B Bearing & Seal Installer
http://gm-volt.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40178&d=1385435848
- How difficult is the bearing repair?
It's really no different that repairing a conventional automatic transmission (which is FAR more complicated that the internals of the Volt's drive/propulsion unit by the way) in that many can be repaired without completely overhauling the entire unit. This is really no different. BUT it requires the right tools and a trained tech willing and able to follow the published processes for the repair. - Does the repair require removing the transmission?
The repair is typically done in-car through the LH fender well while the car was up on the lift - all open from underneath (the fender itself isn't removed). - Does the rotor need to be replaced in addition to the bearing cage?
Rarely. Early on, the rotor was been replaced in a handful of Volts either due to the unavailability of the bearing itself (originally this bearing was not to be a serviceable part i.e. part of the rotor), or unavailability of the special tools needed to properly remove and reinstall it. A bulletin now clearly identifies how to replace the bearing and the correct tools to use. The rotor was also replaced on a couple of cars that had a repeat failure after the bearing alone had been replaced at the dealership. - Does the entire MG-B rotor/stator assembly need replacing?
Replacing the MG-B rotor/stator assembly really isn’t necessary for the repair to be successful. Instead, it's more an alternative method to obtain a pre-installed bearing in the event ordering the individual part, or the tools necessary to service it cannot be obtained in a timely manner.So the dealer would be well advised to insure they have the tools and parts on-hand BEFORE tearing the drive unit apart. They should look up and read the PIP5081 and the replacement procedure in GM's Electronic Service Information system BEFOREHAND. - Once repaired, can the bearing fail again?
Possibly, though this is not a chronic issue. Essentially ALL of the repeat failures have been attributed to the repair procedures NOT being followed by the technician. If the Chevy service tech failed to look up or read the PIP5081 and the replacement procedure in GM's Electronic Service Information system BEFOREHAND this could certainly cause a substandard repair and subsequent repeat of the problem. So, there's not much chance of a repeat failure, providing the bearing was properly replaced, as in the technician carefully followed the published process for it's removal and installation. If for whatever reason they do not (e.g. didn’t have the correct tools, or didn’t use them correctly, didn’t follow the detailed instructions for R&R or measuring the bearing race for proper alignment after it's installed, and a couple of additional inspections necessary to insure it's fixed right the first time. etc. etc.) then the repair might NOT be a success, especially if the noise does not alleviate (or returns after a short period of time). - What if the bearing noise problem persists or returns after repair?
Get your Volt Advisor involved. There's not much chance of a repeat failure, providing the bearing was properly replaced, as in the technician carefully followed the published process for it's removal and installation. If for whatever reason they do not (e.g. didn’t have the correct tools, or didn’t use them correctly, didn’t follow the detailed instructions for R&R or measuring the bearing race for proper alignment after it's installed etc. etc.) then the repair might NOT be a success, especially if the noise does not alleviate (or returns after a short period of time). If the dealer tech had some sort of trouble replacing the bearing they MAY need to replace the complete rotor (comes with the bearing) or even the drive unit assembly in order to remedy the issue. - What causes the bearing to fail?
Damage to the bearing race during final assembly of the drive unit. - Is failure of the bearing related to driving in Low? Number of miles? The car year?
No. There is no correlation with driving in Low, or in Drive for that matter. Very few of these have actually occurred and the issue has been identified as potential damage to the bearing race during final assembly of the drive unit. - Is failure of the bearing common?
No, but it is concerning for those who experience it. - If this bearing failure happens outside the warranty, will it be expensive?
It's not a difficult or even an expensive repair. The drive unit does not need to be removed. Assuming everything (tools, parts, repair bulletin) is "at hand" it shouldn't take longer than 3-4 hours. Not much more than an old-school tune-up... - How is the whining or table saw noise being created?
The noise is created by the fact that after the plastic roller cage fails some or all of the bearing rollers are no longer properly/equally spaced around the circumference of the rotor support in the end cover. The rollers are all still there, as they are "captured" within the bearing races but will "gather" together and spin inside the races at what is now an un-natural frequency. This is what creates the “whining” or “table saw” sound. This bearing (as with all ball/roller/needle bearings) is designed for metal to metal contact, within the confines of its races providing there is adequate lubrication (the bearing is pressure fed transmission fluid from an internal passage) so there isn't really any serious metal contamination present OR any damage where on the 2 parts in which the bearing is working in conjunction with- just a noise and a bunch of plastic material scattered through the end cover. - Why is the whining sound louder during regenerative braking?
The noise is more pronounced during regen because the magnetic fields created between the rotor and stator windings during regen are quite strong which creates certain thrust forces that actually move with the active poles involved, and therefore placing fluctuating loads on the bearing. So technically the noise it ALWAYS there but merely becomes more pronounced under these conditions. - Based on the noise, I believe the damage is much greater than this FAQ seems to imply.
There's always going to be a few skeptics when someone tells them it sounds worse than it actually is. But there is no serious damage as long as it's dealt with expeditiously. - Why was repairing this bearing failure such a big deal initially?
There weren't any spare parts or repair procedure. Someone made an educated decision at some point that this particular bearing was not something that would ever require routine replacement (other than when the rotor was replaced). They were obviously wrong in that decision. - Is this a warranty repair? What about the extended warranty?
The bearing repair is certainly covered under the 3 year/36k bumper to bumper warranty. It seems to me it would also be covered under the 5 year/100k mile power train warranty (the engine, the transmission/transaxle, and the drive train). Any Voltec componenet is covered 8 years/100k miles, but I don't think the bearing would be considered a Voltec component. A GMPP Major Guard warranty extension covers
"Virtually every mechanical, electrical and electronic component of your vehicle is covered against failure even if it results from wear and tear *. You're covered for parts and labor on:
Engine
Transmission / Transaxle
Front / Rear-wheel-drive components
Fuel delivery component
Engine cooling component
Heating and vehicle manufacturer-installed air conditioning components
Electrical, computer and audio components
Braking system components
Suspension (Front / Rear)
Steering component
High-tech components
Seals and gaskets
Safety components
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?66482-Bearing-Failure-vs-Driving-in-L
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?89658-Another-Motor-Bearing-Failure
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?85658-Stator-Bearing-Failure
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?56705-GM-fix-my-Lemon-take-2...
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?46489-Fix-my-Volt-Please-Take-1.
61 - 80 of 116 Posts
My (2013) bearing recently began to fail with just under 100K. I now have 102K and it has gotten much louder.
My dealer wants $150 per hour just to diagnose. Only then will they tell me if it is going to be covered under warranty.
Has anyone had any luck getting this covered with over 100K?
Thanks
John
My dealer wants $150 per hour just to diagnose. Only then will they tell me if it is going to be covered under warranty.
Has anyone had any luck getting this covered with over 100K?
Thanks
John
That would depend entirely on the goodwill of the dealer (Atlantic?). If the dealer says no go, you can try calling GM and asking for help but they likely won't cover it.My (2013) bearing recently began to fail with just under 100K. I now have 102K and it has gotten much louder.
My dealer wants $150 per hour just to diagnose. Only then will they tell me if it is going to be covered under warranty.
Has anyone had any luck getting this covered with over 100K?
Thanks
John
Yes, Atlantic. My next step will be to visit the dealer and speak directly to a service rep. I'll update with what I learn.
Does anyone know where to find the European Voltec warranty
I have a problem with this bearing too the car now has 64K miles and I've driven it for 3K miles with this problem. (I drove from Texas to Canada) The car still has the same noise and it works exactly as day one when I got it.
As I always had this noise since I got the car I thought it was normal, but as I had a Leaf and that one doesn't make this kind of noise I was not completely sure so I checked here on this forum and I realized this is a problem. My car has a branded title so it is out of warranty for that. (I bought is from IAA, rebuilt it myself including airbags and unlocked the PCM's using GDS2)
So here are my questions:
That happens if I leave the bearing as is and do nothing?
If it s just the noise I can live with that but I don't know if it'll damage something else
If I get the proper tools do you think is a DIY job? (considering I'm not in diapers in these type of cars)
As I always had this noise since I got the car I thought it was normal, but as I had a Leaf and that one doesn't make this kind of noise I was not completely sure so I checked here on this forum and I realized this is a problem. My car has a branded title so it is out of warranty for that. (I bought is from IAA, rebuilt it myself including airbags and unlocked the PCM's using GDS2)
So here are my questions:
That happens if I leave the bearing as is and do nothing?
If it s just the noise I can live with that but I don't know if it'll damage something else
If I get the proper tools do you think is a DIY job? (considering I'm not in diapers in these type of cars)
Has anyone had this job completed outside of warranty? Ol reliable succumbed to the bearing issue late last week. I provided the TSB, but it still took them a few days to look and decide it was indeed that bearing. I was quoted about $1400 for replacement. Is that right? Anyone else paid for this out of pocket? With the miles and age of this car, it's tempting to use it as parts for a newer salvaged car or just outright replace it. Of course it needs tires as well so I'm looking at a decent bill if $1400 is an average price for the bearing replacement.
What year is your Volt? How many miles on it? In what area are you located?Has anyone had this job completed outside of warranty? Ol reliable succumbed to the bearing issue late last week. I provided the TSB, but it still took them a few days to look and decide it was indeed that bearing. I was quoted about $1400 for replacement. Is that right? Anyone else paid for this out of pocket? With the miles and age of this car, it's tempting to use it as parts for a newer salvaged car or just outright replace it. Of course it needs tires as well so I'm looking at a decent bill if $1400 is an average price for the bearing replacement.
2013 Volt with 83k, the noise just started last week. I pulled up the youtube and it was uncanny how exact it was. I'll be referencing this thread when I visit the dealer.
Will update on results.
Will update on results.
I'm going through this right now. Had "The Noise" 2 weeks ago, and was quoted $1200 CAD for bearing replacement. 4 days later they tell me the transmission is now toast, and a new one will be an extra $7000. Being a 2012 with 200,000+ km, they told me to SCRAP IT! Unbelievable! Now they are holding my car hostage, and won't tell me how the transmission got damaged. I stared my own thread, but I'll post an update when I know more.Has anyone had this job completed outside of warranty? ...I'm looking at a decent bill if $1400 is an average price for the bearing replacement.
What do you mean they are holding your Volt hostage?I'm going through this right now. Had "The Noise" 2 weeks ago, and was quoted $1200 CAD for bearing replacement. 4 days later they tell me the transmission is now toast, and a new one will be an extra $7000. Being a 2012 with 200,000+ km, they told me to SCRAP IT! Unbelievable! Now they are holding my car hostage, and won't tell me how the transmission got damaged. I stared my own thread, but I'll post an update when I know more.
You drove your car there so you should be able to drive it away since this bearing failure noise shouldn't affect how it drives...it is just noisy and annoying.
I have a 2012 CHEVY VOLT and I had the bearing issue for about 3-4 months. I drive a lot and I didn’t have the $1300 is it for the repair. I ran this car HARD. I accelerate a lot and drive like Fast and Furious. However, I did a lot of research on the topic of this bearing being replaced and I found a good amount, just no videos or actual step by step instructions. I was set on doing it myself tho! I found the bearing on amazing and this seal thing that’s supposed to do something. And I just got in there and unplugged stuff, unscrewed stuff, lowered stuff, disengaged stuff, drained stuff, and pulled stuff really hard. Well it did the trick and the car feels like a dream again. It’s possible for someone like me (a 18 year old high school student who isn’t a mechanic), so if you can fix some stuff ok and research enough, you can do it. I might make a video on how I did this and the process of doing everything so it doesn’t mess something up. If I get enough Likes on this post and I get some responses I’ll make the video and post more instructions and tell you the things that could go wrong if you drive on it and how to avoid it!
Please let me know if your interested!
Again; Chevy volt 2012 136k miles
Please let me know if your interested!
Again; Chevy volt 2012 136k miles
I drove my car there, and (after opening it up) they told me it needed a new transmission ($7000). So now it is sitting with wheel chocks in their back lot, with the transmission opened up. They refuse to tell me how the bearing cage failure caused the transmission to "need replacing", and they recommended I scrap the car (local scrap yards only offered $1000).
So yeah, "held hostage".
edit: They also want $1400 for the "work" they've done so far.
So yeah, "held hostage".
edit: They also want $1400 for the "work" they've done so far.
A GM reman Volt trans goes for $3858 USD. Another $3000 just to swap it out?
Canadian dollars, sorry. So ~$5220 USD for the new trans + ~$1044 USD for work done.
Used are going for about $1200 USD.
They told me there were no used transmissions in Canada, and they aren't allowed to import them.
Video is the best thing to help all of us to decide to do a DIY.
I have a 2012 CHEVY VOLT and I had the bearing issue for about 3-4 months. I drive a lot and I didn’t have the $1300 is it for the repair. I ran this car HARD. I accelerate a lot and drive like Fast and Furious. However, I did a lot of research on the topic of this bearing being replaced and I found a good amount, just no videos or actual step by step instructions. I was set on doing it myself tho! I found the bearing on amazing and this seal thing that’s supposed to do something. And I just got in there and unplugged stuff, unscrewed stuff, lowered stuff, disengaged stuff, drained stuff, and pulled stuff really hard. Well it did the trick and the car feels like a dream again. It’s possible for someone like me (a 18 year old high school student who isn’t a mechanic), so if you can fix some stuff ok and research enough, you can do it. I might make a video on how I did this and the process of doing everything so it doesn’t mess something up. If I get enough Likes on this post and I get some responses I’ll make the video and post more instructions and tell you the things that could go wrong if you drive on it and how to avoid it!
Please let me know if your interested!
Again; Chevy volt 2012 136k miles
LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE Is that enough LIKEs to get you to do the video? Or at least some more details?
I don't currently have the bearing issue but I'd like to be prepared just in case. I'm sure I have the skill and most of the necessary tools (likely will have to buy or craft the proper puller for the bearing).
Many thanks in advance!!
2013 Volt with 83k, the noise just started last week. I pulled up the youtube and it was uncanny how exact it was. I'll be referencing this thread when I visit the dealer.
Will update on results.
Just an update, fully covered under warranty. I referenced the TSB and this thread. Thanks for the info.
61 - 80 of 116 Posts
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